The Decline of the American Media III

[TIDE-HSV]

There were several people on this very forum that tried to convince us that what we saw with our own eyes wasn't true.

This isn't just a case where the 'fourth branch' abused their position, it's as blatant a case of binary-partisanship amongst the voter based as we see from the Trump supporters who cannot admit he can be wrong. Some of the very same posters who told us Biden was fine, just aging, stuttering, etc. are quick to point out Trump supporters who defend him beyond the pale.

I'm not sure whether it's complete blindness or hypocrisy, but it's a reminder that BOTH SIDES play these stupid games that damage our country.

And both sides were projecting candidates to the top who were/are patently psychologically unfit. What kind of system(s) does that in a sane society?

 

[JDCrimson]

Is it really a democracy if you cant elect a doofus to the position?

And both sides were projecting candidates to the top who were/are patently psychologically unfit. What kind of system(s) does that in a sane society?

 

[jthomas666]

Gender re-assignment surgery and hormone treatments are expensive and making them available to recruits will mean some people will join the military simply to get that treatment. That is the medical equivalent of buying a Fiat. The medical standards are to protect the military as well as the recruits.

Would you have an issue with people who have already had reassignment surgery serving?

 

[Tidewater]

Would you have an issue with people who have already had reassignment surgery serving?

I guess, if they are going to pay for their hormone treatments and doctors assess they have the ability to serve without endangering themselves or those around them, yes.

There is the recruitment angle. I have posted this before, but generally, the all-volunteer military comes disproportionately from the states from Virginia, down through the former Confederacy to Texas and then up the Great Plains to the Canadian border. Those are the states on which the services lean disproportionately for recruits. These states tend to be more socially conservative than, say, Massachusetts and the West Coast.
The number of men calling themselves women and women calling themselves men is very small, but if having them in the ranks costs the services recruits from that crescent, then it could be a net loss in recruiting. Retaining such people in the military might mean the retention of 500 soldiers. If that causes 10,000 potential recruits to seek other opportunities, then you are still down 9,500 recruits. I do not know what the numbers are and I am an old guy, so I may be out of touch with the values of young men (and women) today. I do know from personal experience. One of the female soldiers I trained and put into the army resigned when forced to tell female soldiers that, "if you see a soldier with a penis in the female communal shower, this is normal." As soon as she could, my former student resigned. She was a good kid, but was unwilling to compromise on this.

 

[crimsonaudio]

You do not hate the media enough.

 

[jthomas666]

I guess, if they are going to pay for their hormone treatments and doctors assess they have the ability to serve without endangering themselves or those around them, yes.

There is the recruitment angle. I have posted this before, but generally, the all-volunteer military comes disproportionately from the states from Virginia, down through the former Confederacy to Texas and then up the Great Plains to the Canadian border. Those are the states on which the services lean disproportionately for recruits. These states tend to be more socially conservative than, say, Massachusetts and the West Coast.
The number of men calling themselves women and women calling themselves men is very small, but if having them in the ranks costs the services recruits from that crescent, then it could be a net loss in recruiting. Retaining such people in the military might mean the retention of 500 soldiers. If that causes 10,000 potential recruits to seek other opportunities, then you are still down 9,500 recruits. I do not know what the numbers are and I am an old guy, so I may be out of touch with the values of young men (and women) today. I do know from personal experience. One of the female soldiers I trained and put into the army resigned when forced to tell female soldiers that, "if you see a soldier with a penis in the female communal shower, this is normal." As soon as she could, my former student resigned. She was a good kid, but was unwilling to compromise on this.

Why would we want to make policies that reinforce others' prejudices?

Again, see the clip I posted earlier.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Why would we want to make policies that reinforce others' prejudices?

Ideologies are great right up until they literally jeopardize your ability to exist. ..

 

[jthomas666]

Ideologies are great right up until they literally jeopardize your ability to exist. ..

Yes, let's jettison principles because they MIGHT cause problems.

If you're willing to abandon your principles because they MIGHT cause problems...

...do you really have any principles at all?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Ideologies are great right up until they literally jeopardize your ability to exist. ..

IDK. It seems to me that that attitude leads to "who will speak up when they come for me?"

 

[CrimsonJazz]

IDK. It seems to me that that attitude leads to "who will speak up when they come for me?"

Respectfully, once we are at the point where “they” are coming for anyone, speaking up won’t accomplish jack. Once things have disintegrated to this point, one has two options: give up or let one’s guns do the talking. I used to hate guns, but I’m armed now.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Yes, let's jettison principles because they MIGHT cause problems.

If you're willing to abandon your principles because they MIGHT cause problems...

...do you really have any principles at all?

It's a fair point.

My point is ideologies that induce your own demise are generally faulty ideologies in the first place.

 

[Crimson1967]

If being around a transgender person is a big problem I don’t know how you handle situations that are truly traumatic like people shooting at you.

 

[Bamaro]

You do not hate the media enough.

View attachment 50927

That's actually a good sign that they can show opposing opinions.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Respectfully, once we are at the point where “they” are coming for anyone, speaking up won’t accomplish jack. Once things have disintegrated to this point, one has two options: give up or let one’s guns do the talking. I used to hate guns, but I’m armed now.

I guess my point was too obscure. Creeping authoritarianism functions best in darkness, as in the two attempts in the "Big Beautiful Bill" to strip the courts of their traditional powers. I was pointing out the slippery slope. What they're doing needs to be called out now, over and over, dragged out into the sunlight, where it can't survive. And, in the words of the late Jim Valvano - "Never give up. Never, ever, give up." By all means stay armed. I have been since age ten. The idea is to never reach that end point...

 

[jthomas666]

It's a fair point.

My point is ideologies that induce your own demise are generally faulty ideologies in the first place.

Which would be relevant if we knew that having transgenders in the military will lead to our demise. We do NOT know that.

People said that blacks in the military would destroy the military. It didn't.

People said that women in the military would destroy the military. It didn't.

Also, interesting that you think that Christianity is a faulty ideology.

But if you REALLY want to talk about faulty ideologies...

A Fox host’s ‘rules for being a man’: no leg-crossing, no public soup drinking | Arwa Mahdawi

Jesse Watters’ list is so bizarre, it has me agreeing with Ted Cruz – and Watters’ show helps shape US politics

www.theguardian.com

 

[crimsonaudio]

Which would be relevant if we knew that having transgenders in the military will lead to our demise. We do NOT know that.

I'm not suggesting that, I'm simply suggesting that IF @Tidewater 's numbers (which he admits he made up) reflected reality, then it would be idiocy to continue to pursue that policy.

I've no idea what the numbers look like, this is simply a general statement about policy and ideology.

 

[Tidewater]

I'm not suggesting that, I'm simply suggesting that IF @Tidewater 's numbers (which he admits he made up) reflected reality, then it would be idiocy to continue to pursue that policy.

I've no idea what the numbers look like, this is simply a general statement about policy and ideology.

And I added that I do not know what 18 year old young men and women feel about it. Maybe none of them care one way or another. I kind of doubt it. I suspect that there are more former Boy Scouts than Antifa members in the military, but I do not have those data. If so, this, would indicate that the world view of most military people is going to be a little different from the average American citizen.
I do know one young woman of promise who left the service because she was uncomfortable sharing an intimate space with a man. I doubt she was the only one.

 

[Tidewater]

Why would we want to make policies that reinforce others' prejudices?

Two problems with that.
1. We have a volunteer force. We cannot force people to serve in the military. If adopting a policy earns us 500 recruits and costs us 10,000 recruits, it is probably an ineffective policy. (And again, I do not know if those numbers are anywhere near accurate; they are just for discussion)
2. I remain unconvinced that a man who believes he is a woman is in fact a woman. He might have other issues he needs to deal with before entering a profession involving horribly expensive equipment and in which others one day will try to kill him (and anyone dressed like him). Combat is very unforgiving.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Two problems with that.
1. We have a volunteer force. We cannot force people to serve in the military. If adopting a policy earns us 500 recruits and costs us 10,000 recruits, it is probably an ineffective policy. (And again, I do not know if those numbers are anywhere near accurate; they are just for discussion)
2. I remain unconvinced that a man who believes he is a woman is in fact a woman. He might have other issues he needs to deal with before entering a profession involving horribly expensive equipment and in which others one day will try to kill him (and anyone dressed like him). Combat is very unforgiving.

OTOH, you have the Spartan warriors, who, when they finally married between the ages of 20 and 30, had to have their brides presented to them with cropped hair and in mens' clothing, since the warriors had only had sex with other men up to that point. Yet, the entire ancient Aegean world, including the Athenians, looked up to them as a fighting force...

 

[jthomas666]

OTOH, you have the Spartan warriors, who, when they finally married between the ages of 20 and 30, had to have their brides presented to them with cropped hair and in mens' clothing, since the warriors had only had sex with other men up to that point. Yet, the entire ancient Aegean world, including the Athenians, looked up to them as a fighting force...

There you go, bringing facts into it again