Trump and MAGA: Yes, It's Fascism

Huckleberry

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Nov 9, 2004
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The Atlantic gift article

Yes, It’s Fascism​

Until recently, I thought it a term best avoided. But now, the resemblances are too many and too strong to deny.

Until recently, I resisted using the F-word to describe President Trump. For one thing, there were too many elements of classical fascism that didn’t seem to fit. For another, the term has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, especially by left-leaning types who call you a fascist if you oppose abortion or affirmative action. For yet another, the term is hazily defined, even by its adherents. From the beginning, fascism has been an incoherent doctrine, and even today scholars can’t agree on its definition. Italy’s original version differed from Germany’s, which differed from Spain’s, which differed from Japan’s.

I accepted President Biden’s characterization of the MAGA movement as “semi-fascist” because some parallels were glaringly apparent. Trump was definitely an authoritarian, and unquestionably a patrimonialist. Beyond that, though, the best description seemed to be a psychological one propounded by John Bolton, Trump’s first-term national security adviser: “He listens to Putin, he listens to Xi, he listens to how they talk about governing unburdened by uncooperative legislatures, unconcerned with what the judiciary may do, and he thinks to himself, Why can’t I do that? This doesn’t amount to being a fascist, in my view, [or] having a theory of how you want to govern. It’s just Why can’t I have the same fun they have?

Writing a year ago, I argued that Trump’s governing regime is a version of patrimonialism, in which the state is treated as the personal property and family business of the leader. That is still true. But, as I also noted then, patrimonialism is a style of governing, not a formal ideology or system. It can be layered atop all kinds of organizational structures, including not just national governments but also urban political machines such as Tammany Hall, criminal gangs such as the Mafia, and even religious cults. Because its only firm principle is personal loyalty to the boss, it has no specific agenda. Fascism, in contrast, is ideological, aggressive, and at least in its early stages, revolutionary. It seeks to dominate politics, to crush resistance, and to rewrite the social contract.

Over Trump’s past year, what originally looked like an effort to make the government his personal plaything has drifted distinctly toward doctrinal and operational fascism. Trump’s appetite for lebensraum, his claim of unlimited power, his support for the global far right, his politicization of the justice system, his deployment of performative brutality, his ostentatious violation of rights, his creation of a national paramilitary police—all of those developments bespeak something more purposeful and sinister than run-of-the-mill greed or gangsterism.
 
The Atlantic gift article

Yes, It’s Fascism​

Until recently, I thought it a term best avoided. But now, the resemblances are too many and too strong to deny.

Until recently, I resisted using the F-word to describe President Trump. For one thing, there were too many elements of classical fascism that didn’t seem to fit. For another, the term has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, especially by left-leaning types who call you a fascist if you oppose abortion or affirmative action. For yet another, the term is hazily defined, even by its adherents. From the beginning, fascism has been an incoherent doctrine, and even today scholars can’t agree on its definition. Italy’s original version differed from Germany’s, which differed from Spain’s, which differed from Japan’s.

I accepted President Biden’s characterization of the MAGA movement as “semi-fascist” because some parallels were glaringly apparent. Trump was definitely an authoritarian, and unquestionably a patrimonialist. Beyond that, though, the best description seemed to be a psychological one propounded by John Bolton, Trump’s first-term national security adviser: “He listens to Putin, he listens to Xi, he listens to how they talk about governing unburdened by uncooperative legislatures, unconcerned with what the judiciary may do, and he thinks to himself, Why can’t I do that? This doesn’t amount to being a fascist, in my view, [or] having a theory of how you want to govern. It’s just Why can’t I have the same fun they have?

Writing a year ago, I argued that Trump’s governing regime is a version of patrimonialism, in which the state is treated as the personal property and family business of the leader. That is still true. But, as I also noted then, patrimonialism is a style of governing, not a formal ideology or system. It can be layered atop all kinds of organizational structures, including not just national governments but also urban political machines such as Tammany Hall, criminal gangs such as the Mafia, and even religious cults. Because its only firm principle is personal loyalty to the boss, it has no specific agenda. Fascism, in contrast, is ideological, aggressive, and at least in its early stages, revolutionary. It seeks to dominate politics, to crush resistance, and to rewrite the social contract.

Over Trump’s past year, what originally looked like an effort to make the government his personal plaything has drifted distinctly toward doctrinal and operational fascism. Trump’s appetite for lebensraum, his claim of unlimited power, his support for the global far right, his politicization of the justice system, his deployment of performative brutality, his ostentatious violation of rights, his creation of a national paramilitary police—all of those developments bespeak something more purposeful and sinister than run-of-the-mill greed or gangsterism.
One of the things that amazes me, which just proves how dumb I am, is that people in power who blatantly break the law think the law will still be there to protect them. Unless you're the king, the regime can take anything they want from you, as well, including and especially, your life.

No one seems to ever learn from Stalin's purges or Saddam's or anyone's. The world is just their movie, I guess, and everybody besides themselves is just a NPC. I guess the reason they can't see is the most obvious: they WON'T see.

There is a church on every street corner.
 
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Does this not imply a moral obligation to actually do something about it?
If one rally believes America is confronting fascism, wringing hands and posting links on the internet would seem to be insufficient.
THANK YOU!! If these people really believed this crap, they would be on the front lines with the rest of the cannon fodder who are getting themselves maimed or killed for the sociopathic elites who engineered all this violence in the first place to protect their theft, fraud and human trafficking.

I truly hope it doesn’t become necessary in my lifetime, but if it does, I am prepared to take up arms and fight to defend my country against our government. One thing I can say: if it happens, it won’t be over a grift like this.
 
Does this not imply a moral obligation to actually do something about it?

The American soul is dying and most just don’t care to save it. Americans are dumb and selfish.

I think fascism may be a stretch if we are comparing it to its historical precedents but something close to its Ilk is beyond apparent. I think Trump’s too dumb and shortsighted to pull off something like Hitler, but he has greatly weakened the American institutions and helped create a greater division that makes it far easier for someone that knows what they’re doing to pull it off.

I think just passing off the idea of a fascist America as liberal fear mongering is becoming increasingly harder to do. Things are becoming increasingly un American and anti democratic. They resemble far more of what you see in dictatorships and authoritarian governments ran by cults of personalities.
 
Does this not imply a moral obligation to actually do something about it?
Questioning someone’s sincerity or courage isn’t an argument. It’s a way to avoid engaging with the substance of what was shared.

Believing a country is facing authoritarian drift does create a responsibility to act, but it does not require public displays of bravery or adherence to someone else’s preferred form of action. In a democracy, speaking out, persuading others, supporting institutions, organizing, voting, and documenting abuses are all legitimate and necessary responses. Dismissing those as “hand-wringing” is neither serious nor historically informed.

If you disagree with the article or its conclusions, argue that. If you think the analysis is wrong, explain why. Or simply choose not to respond at all. But implying cowardice or bad faith is just a disappointing ad hominem substitute for engagement, and it doesn’t advance the discussion at all.
 
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Does this not imply a moral obligation to actually do something about it?

Lot to unpack with this statement.

People are trying to do something. It starts with information sharing.

I’m seeing lots of posts elsewhere where people are sharing contact information for their states on how to contact elected officials and voice concerns.

Democrats are bombarding those right now to let it known that officials will get primaried for not taking a stand against funding for ICE and HLS.

Other peaceful attempts that require offline physical attendance we are seeing in larger cities through rallies and protests.

Now if you are asking to go beyond the peaceful means.

I agree with you it’s time to be prepared to DO something.

That kind of doing something is going to get a lot of people killed but not doing something is now getting law abiding US citizens killed so that’s where we are at now.

Everyone who can legally carry should do so at all times in public now.

If you can’t legally carry then begin the process now before it’s too late.

I don’t like guns or violence either but what I like less is fellow Americans getting murdered by the Gestapo.

If for whatever reason a person cannot legally obtain that level of protection then get what you can use that’s legal.

Join some type of Martial Arts Defense school and learn hand to hand combat.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Judo for grappling and some type of Striking like Karate, Boxing, Taekwondo, Muay Tai etc.

Have morals and stand up to Fascist Tyranny.

Don’t just watch a bunch of Sub-Human thugs cowardly hiding behind masks physically assault and/or Murder fellow Human Beings be it Women, Children, or other Men.

At worst be prepared to protect your immediate family and neighbors.

It’s quite clear the murders committed by Federal Agents are not going to stop.

It’s quite clear the US Government has no intention to bring the murderers to justice as evidenced by the immediate lies and coverup attempts.

Be Ready and Get Prepared.

Please don’t wait until it’s too late.
 
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Does this not imply a moral obligation to actually do something about it?

I am reading about a group with national chapters (Sons Of Liberty) is looking for veterans with legal permits to help provide security in these places.

I hope I am wrong, but I can see a bloodbath coming in the streets if these kinds of actions continue. I am hoping we are not reaching critical mass.

For decades, we've been told that the 2nd amendment was in place to prevent government from running roughshod over citizens. It seems like the people who worried about Obama putting them in re-education camps are perfectly fine with warrantless searches, wonton gun carnage, LE acting without any decipherable guardrails. As long as it's the right "enemies" they've been told to oppose.

Don't tread on me. Just the people standing over there.
 
I am reading about a group with national chapters (Sons Of Liberty) is looking for veterans with legal permits to help provide security in these places.

I hope I am wrong, but I can see a bloodbath coming in the streets if these kinds of actions continue. I am hoping we are not reaching critical mass.

For decades, we've been told that the 2nd amendment was in place to prevent government from running roughshod over citizens. It seems like the people who worried about Obama putting them in re-education camps are perfectly fine with warrantless searches, wonton gun carnage, LE acting without any decipherable guardrails. As long as it's the right "enemies" they've been told to oppose.

Don't tread on me. Just the people standing over there.

Thank you for bringing up Veterans because I meant to.

They are one of the final examples of good humans that’s giving me a scrap of faith.

I’m seeing many of them publicly reminding each other to remember and hold their oaths.

They are admonishing what’s going on is wrong and that rules of engagement and escalation/de-escalation are not being followed properly.

I’ve seen combat veterans share their rules of engagement literature and ICE is basically skipping to the worst case scenarios.

I fear many of us are absolutely going to need our Combat Veterans to protect our fellow Americans from Tyranny.
 
Thank you for bringing up Veterans because I meant to.

They are one of the final examples of good humans that’s giving me a scrap of faith.

I’m seeing many of them publicly reminding each other to remember and hold their oaths.

They are admonishing what’s going on is wrong and that rules of engagement and escalation/de-escalation are not being followed properly.

I’ve seen combat veterans share their rules of engagement literature and ICE is basically skipping to the worst case scenarios.

I fear many of us are absolutely going to need our Combat Veterans to protect our fellow Americans from Tyranny.

My step-son is/was a committed pacifist. This past weekend, he was talking about buying a firearm and taking up arms. I told him that it would probably be a good idea NOT to bring a weapon to a protest....given ICE"s propensity to shoot you just for having one legally on your body. (You can see clearly that the guy had been disarmed and was holding his cell phone when he was shot).

I fear that this is headed for an ugly confrontation unless Congress steps in with more than tots and pears. The GOP has got to reclaim whatever balls they might have misplaced, and stop this.
 
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