Trump Attacks Iran, IV

I'm conservative as the day is long, bordering on libertarian in some aspects, and if you've read my posts you know that. Saying that this Iran war/military action is the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time. It may be dumber than Biden's pull out of Afghanistan, the question still remains how much he knew of what was actually happening, but it was his administration.

Who in the world was siting in the room when this Iran thing was dreamed up? Was there no one there to explain that the only way to deal with the Iranian regime was to either kill them all and launch a full scale invasion, and by kill them all I mean the entire leadership, military, IRGC, and the majority of the fighting age men. The Big Red One, The First Armored Division, the 82nd and 101st Airborne, The Old Breed, too name a few, and the rest of our elite special forces units would have to roll into Tehran and blow the entire place up. Then you would need to occupy it for years, and no one wants to do that. The cost in blood from just our service members alone would be way more than we could bear. Then you throw in the cost, and dear Lord the casualties the Iranian people would take. It would easily be in the millions if not 10 million. It would be enormous. It's simply not something we should do in any capacity.

Your other option is leave them alone. Understand they will bluster and boast and just ignore the idiots. If they do ever get a bomb and use it then all bets are off. It could be really bad, but that is something you would have to weigh the outcomes of.

A third and probably best option is to monitor what they are doing and if necessary drop a bomb on some specific target to delay their nuclear capability if you absolutely have to. You include your allies in the Middle East and Europe on this. You don't necessarily tell the day and time and tactical details, but you develop a plan that they know could be executed and all parties are aware of a general stance. Think what was done with the B-2's a while back. You understand you can't destroy all their capacity, but you slow it when absolutely necessary.

We aren't dealing with sane actors. They are as talked about above very similar to the Japanese in WW2. I think they are even more fanatical if really want the truth of it. It all boils down to the version of Islam they are adhering to. It's as radical a form as there is. This leads them to not make the same sane decisions that most other countries would make. They don't care about the economy of Iran. They don't care about the citizens of the country, and in many cases the leadership and IRGC don't care about their own lives either. You kill one guy another one just steps into his shoes and continues the same policies and actions.

They don't think like us or look at the world like we do. This means we can't deal with them like we dealt with Venezuela or even the old USSR. They don't live in that world. The people of Iran can't overthrow the government even if they wanted to do so. They will just kill them in the streets by the tens of thousands if necessary. If you don't understand your adversary you can't properly deal with them. This isn't just a Trump problem. Obama and Biden thought they could reason with them and give them money and make nice. They tried to go in the other direction. They aren't your friend and they never will be. They hate us and want to see us all dead or converted to their brand of Islam. That's the only thing they understand, violence and force, and if you go hard at them you have to be ready to go all the way and stack the bodies, and I don't want to do that. Iraq and Afghanistan showed us you can't Westernize a people that at their heart don't want or share Western values. It's a square peg and a round hole. So stop trying to slam the wrong peg in the wrong hole. My God it's just not that hard to figure out. Islam isn't the friend of the left or the right in American political terms. They want us all dead or converted. They are willing to die and see the populations of their country decimated to stay true to the ideology.

Have you paid any attention to who has been President for most of the last ten years?

I mean, your assessment is right but this idiot thinks taunting is a governing strategy, anything Obama ever did HAS to be wrong, and obviously non-white Arab people think two steps more backwards than an Ozark farmer whose kid plays the banjo.

It’s NOT an act.

This moron really is this obtuse, inattentive, racist and fake tough. I’d love nothing more than to see some woman beat the hell out of him in front of the world and leave him a crying heap.

He fears nothing worse than public humiliation, which is why he thrives upon inflicting it upon others.

He can’t think beyond “look at the colorful little toys!” Fortunately, it’s not like he could destroy the world with the push of a button or anything.
 
I despise Trump, but I don’t want him to fail at the expense of the country. There's a difference between opposing a president and rooting against America.
THIS! For the love of God, I wish more people in this country understood this concept. I have never wanted a president to fail when it means I have to fail right along with them. Since then, Bill Maher has rediscovered his brain and his conscience, but I remember when he openly hoped for a horrible recession just so it would be the end of Trump. (This was during the first term.) I lost a lot of respect for Maher that night, but he has slowly earned it back over time.
 
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THIS! For the love of God, I wish more people in this country understood this concept. I have never wanted a president to fail when it means I have to fail right along with them. Since then, Bill Maher has rediscovered his brain and his conscience, but I remember when he openly hoped for a horrible recession just so it would be the end of Trump. (This was during the first term.) I lost a lot of respect for Maher that night, but he has slowly earned it back over time.
I'd love to slink out of his personal Iran war, exposing what an awful idea the whole adventure was. If that's wanting a failure by the US, the sobeit. Even W knew to get at least a bare majority of the country behind him before his "He tried to kill my daddy" remark. Trump was stupid enough to try to lead a war a majority of the country had made clear it opposed, mostly just for personal gain. And distraction...
 
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It was an awful idea from the start but since we're already into this mess we should tighten the economic noose around them until they fall from within.
 
It was an awful idea from the start but since we're already into this mess we should tighten the economic noose around them until they fall from within.
The problem with that is that the last standing will be the ones with the guns and we all know who that is. Keep in mind that the PTB have demonstrated over and over that they do not care what happens to the populace at large. They are just collateral damage in the successful attaining of the wishes of their god...
 
I'd love to slink out of his personal Iran war, exposing what an awful idea the whole adventure was. If that's wanting a failure by the US, the sobeit. Even W knew to get at least a bare majority of the country behind him before his "He tried to kill my daddy" remark. Trump was stupid enough to try to lead a war a majority of the country had made clear it opposed, mostly just for personal gain. And distraction...
From my perspective, the thought is: don't oppose Trump's policies simply because they are his. If it's obviously not a good idea from the start or if things turn south, then disagreement certainly makes sense. Knee-jerk opposition damages one's credibility and increases polarization.
 
The problem with that is that the last standing will be the ones with the guns and we all know who that it. Keep in mind that the PTB have demonstrated over and over that they do not care what happens to the populace at large. They are just collateral damage in the successful attaining of the wishes of their god...
You are 100% correct. The only way to truly "deal" with them is to kill all of the leadership and military and even then the insurgents/guerrilla fighters would be unending. I certainly am not up for that. There is no solution or compromise to live alongside this bunch. Islam is a combination religion, conquest guide, and government and legal system. They are commanded to spread it by any means necessary. Iran takes this very seriously unlike some other countries in the Middle East where the leaders like money and high living.

You can't ever negotiate with Iran because you can't trust anything they ever say. They use the Muslim idea of taqiyya, which permits a Muslim to conceal their true beliefs or deny their faith under certain circumstances, in a very broad fashion. They will lie to your face to get what they want in the long term because you are an infidel and you can be lied to at any moment That's what they did with the previous nuclear agreement signed under Obama. They just smiled and nodded and then did what they wanted. They will tell Trump whatever and then do what they want. You can't deal with people like that in any diplomatic fashion. The only thing they understand is death.
 
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You are 100% correct. The only way to truly "deal" with them is to kill all of the leadership and military and even then the insurgents/guerrilla fighters would be unending. I certainly am not up for that. There is no solution or compromise to live alongside this bunch. Islam is a combination religion, conquest guide, and government and legal system. They are commanded to spread it by any means necessary. Iran takes this very seriously unlike some other countries in the Middle East where the leaders like money and high living.

You can't ever negotiate with Iran because you can't trust anything they ever say. They use the Muslim idea of taqiyya, which permits a Muslim to conceal their true beliefs or deny their faith under certain circumstances, in a very broad fashion. They will lie to your face to get what they want in the long term because you are an infidel and you can be lied to at any moment That's what they did with the previous nuclear agreement signed under Obama. They just smiled and nodded and then did what they wanted. They will tell Trump whatever and then do what they want. You can't deal with people like that in any diplomatic fashion. The only thing they understand is death.
And then, there are all those virgins. (Shia think that the 72 is a Sunni error and are vague as to the number.)...
 
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The problem with that is that the last standing will be the ones with the guns and we all know who that it. Keep in mind that the PTB have demonstrated over and over that they do not care what happens to the populace at large. They are just collateral damage in the successful attaining of the wishes of their god...
But the alternative is to allow them to actually build a nuke. Expecting them to go to all this trouble and not use one is like expecting trump to start telling the truth. They both are what they are. I think its now or never.
 
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But the alternative is to allow them to actually build a nuke. Expecting them to go to all this trouble and not use one is like expecting trump to start telling the truth. They both are what they are. I think its now or never.
I'm not sure at all we can prevent it at this point. I'd like to hope he's telling the truth about its being buried, but we know what a slender reed that is...
 
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From my perspective, the thought is: don't oppose Trump's policies simply because they are his. If it's obviously not a good idea from the start or if things turn south, then disagreement certainly makes sense. Knee-jerk opposition damages one's credibility and increases polarization.
this war, or whatever we’re calling it, is one of his more idiotic policies, and that was an already low bar
 
I'm not sure at all we can prevent it at this point. I'd like to hope he's telling the truth about its being buried, but we know what a slender reed that is...

We can't without a full on invasion... But we can delay their time to build and minimize the number. Something the Obama era agreement was doing just fine... Until it was cancelled.
 
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From my perspective, the thought is: don't oppose Trump's policies simply because they are his. If it's obviously not a good idea from the start or if things turn south, then disagreement certainly makes sense. Knee-jerk opposition damages one's credibility and increases polarization.
I apologize if you think my reactions to him are "knee-jerk." If so, you are wrong. I examine each of his ideas ( or Miller's or whoever is doing what thinking and there have been a few decent ones. I don't oppose them...
 
I apologize if you think my reactions to him are "knee-jerk." If so, you are wrong. I examine each of his ideas ( or Miller's or whoever is doing what thinking and there have been a few decent ones. I don't oppose them...
No, I've absolutely never thought that about you and am mortified that I in any way gave that impression. I have a huge amount of respect for your perspective and find you to be one of the wisest and fairest people here (or most anywhere I post on the internet).

I was speaking strictly about myself, because I want to be sure people understand that when I express opposition to Trump's policies, it's not a knee-jerk reaction on my part. I despise the guy, but love my country more than I hate him.
 
I'm conservative as the day is long, bordering on libertarian in some aspects, and if you've read my posts you know that. Saying that this Iran war/military action is the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time. It may be dumber than Biden's pull out of Afghanistan, the question still remains how much he knew of what was actually happening, but it was his administration.

Who in the world was siting in the room when this Iran thing was dreamed up? Was there no one there to explain that the only way to deal with the Iranian regime was to either kill them all and launch a full scale invasion, and by kill them all I mean the entire leadership, military, IRGC, and the majority of the fighting age men. The Big Red One, The First Armored Division, the 82nd and 101st Airborne, The Old Breed, too name a few, and the rest of our elite special forces units would have to roll into Tehran and blow the entire place up. Then you would need to occupy it for years, and no one wants to do that. The cost in blood from just our service members alone would be way more than we could bear. Then you throw in the cost, and dear Lord the casualties the Iranian people would take. It would easily be in the millions if not 10 million. It would be enormous. It's simply not something we should do in any capacity.

Your other option is leave them alone. Understand they will bluster and boast and just ignore the idiots. If they do ever get a bomb and use it then all bets are off. It could be really bad, but that is something you would have to weigh the outcomes of.

A third and probably best option is to monitor what they are doing and if necessary drop a bomb on some specific target to delay their nuclear capability if you absolutely have to. You include your allies in the Middle East and Europe on this. You don't necessarily tell the day and time and tactical details, but you develop a plan that they know could be executed and all parties are aware of a general stance. Think what was done with the B-2's a while back. You understand you can't destroy all their capacity, but you slow it when absolutely necessary.

We aren't dealing with sane actors. They are as talked about above very similar to the Japanese in WW2. I think they are even more fanatical if really want the truth of it. It all boils down to the version of Islam they are adhering to. It's as radical a form as there is. This leads them to not make the same sane decisions that most other countries would make. They don't care about the economy of Iran. They don't care about the citizens of the country, and in many cases the leadership and IRGC don't care about their own lives either. You kill one guy another one just steps into his shoes and continues the same policies and actions.

They don't think like us or look at the world like we do. This means we can't deal with them like we dealt with Venezuela or even the old USSR. They don't live in that world. The people of Iran can't overthrow the government even if they wanted to do so. They will just kill them in the streets by the tens of thousands if necessary. If you don't understand your adversary you can't properly deal with them. This isn't just a Trump problem. Obama and Biden thought they could reason with them and give them money and make nice. They tried to go in the other direction. They aren't your friend and they never will be. They hate us and want to see us all dead or converted to their brand of Islam. That's the only thing they understand, violence and force, and if you go hard at them you have to be ready to go all the way and stack the bodies, and I don't want to do that. Iraq and Afghanistan showed us you can't Westernize a people that at their heart don't want or share Western values. It's a square peg and a round hole. So stop trying to slam the wrong peg in the wrong hole. My God it's just not that hard to figure out. Islam isn't the friend of the left or the right in American political terms. They want us all dead or converted. They are willing to die and see the populations of their country decimated to stay true to the ideology.

I think too many make the assumption that the IR of Iran operates purely off of religious fanaticism. It’s really far more complicated than that.

It’s more of a military hierarchy than a cleric state. They push the religious part to create an existential issue more than to promote their version of Islam. Iran is the main Shia nation in the world and is constantly attacked by Sunnis for being non Muslims and are constantly targeted by the west for exploitation. They aren’t this backwatered country like Afghanistan in which we are literally watching the 10th century play out everyday. They are a 90 million people state in which they have far more modern institutions, utilities, and access to certain things. A military state would crumble in seconds, so it’s a married state between the military and religious figures.

I think the problem is that we have underestimated Iran and viewed them as savages instead of trying to understand why they do the things they do. The country of Iran is full of far more good and non fanatical people than it is of people like the IRGC. However these stupid attacks that we let Israel talk us into have made the IRGC look far more credible in their constant fear mongering so we may have missed our chance to make real change in a country that truly needs it.
 

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