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Guillon takes a shot

Not that I agree with the QB comment, but I do agree with the non competitive atmosphere of the program. I have been saying that all season. Think about it- Darby instead of Johns, Capps instead of Tatum, the whole special teams crew. He hit the nail right on the head, other than the QB remark, which be expected, he was the backup :)
 
TerryP said:
Folks, don't be deceived...that part of what he's saying is true. Sadly enough, some of the players you hear talking are part of that "favorite group."

When Brodie was on campus he used to show up late to all the meetings...other players would, and then get chewed out by Shula. Never happened to Brodie.

So, what did they do? Showed up late, but made sure they were walking in with Brodie...literally daring Shula to say something.

I can't blame them. You couldn't count on two hands and your toes the times Shula had meetings set, sometimes with our leadership guys/seniors, and didn't show up as well.

Again, discipline problems leading to other problems...
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I didn't know that was going on but it sounds about right...I still have a problem with Guillon saying it now...why wait till the coach is fired? sounds kinda cowardly right?

One more thing...do you think the favoritism stuff played into Darby starting over Johns all year and Capps over Tatum?
 
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Bama Reb said:
This is something to which I've been pointing all season. If there is no respect and discipline, you have no foundation on which to build. This is true of any organization - sports, business or otherwise.
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Which is the precise reason I was pointing to execution. You don't have execution without discipline. The lack of execution a symptom...not the root cause of our problems.

foley_boy said:
I didn't know that was going on but it sounds about right...I still have a problem with Guillon saying it now...why wait till the coach is fired? sounds kinda cowardly right?

One more thing...do you think the favoritism stuff played into Darby starting over Johns all year and Capps over Tatum?
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Capps over Tatum was CBC.

You have to go back and review the game tapes. Johns success came on different plays than were called for Darby. They worked, yes. But, why didn't they call the same play for Darby? KD has received some flack this year...not deserved.
 
TerryP said:
Which is the precise reason I was pointing to execution. You don't have execution without discipline. The lack of execution a symptom...not the root cause of our problems.
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Amen to that. Our red-zone woes were a prime example of a lack of discipline. If you can't focus yourself to push for an extra yard or two, it is a matter of personal discipline.
 
So this is where this lack of discipline stuff is coming from? A disgruntled QB?

Well I would say that there are all kinds of different levels of discipline. I gaurantee that if we looked at how we discipline our own kids then we would divide out into some pretty distinct groups. When we have discussed teachers disciplining kids at school on the non sports forum, there are many differing views there. As far as coaches, I am sure that Bear had a different discipline philosophy than say Pete Carroll at USC and Jimmy Johnson at Miami but I do not doubt that most coaches treat different players differently. Some players will respond differently to different treatment and most QBs these days are more sensitive than say a linebacker or DE.

Regardless of what some will admit, Shula was in a unique position. He did not have a lot of quality players to work with but he was still expected to put a top notch product on the field and to win every game. It may have taken balancing out some eqos to make things work. Just because the media was not happy with the way he handled discipline situations does not mean they were not being handled. He may have saw community service as having more of an impact on a player than suspending him. We may not agree with everything he did from a discipline stand point, Paul Finebaum may not have been happy with not being in the know about what was going on over there but we were not in Shula's situation and have never had a coach that has been put in his situation. He had to deal with the team in the best way that he thought worked.
 
TerryP said:
Folks, don't be deceived...that part of what he's saying is true. Sadly enough, some of the players you hear talking are part of that "favorite group."

When Brodie was on campus he used to show up late to all the meetings...other players would, and then get chewed out by Shula. Never happened to Brodie.

So, what did they do? Showed up late, but made sure they were walking in with Brodie...literally daring Shula to say something.

I can't blame them. You couldn't count on two hands and your toes the times Shula had meetings set, sometimes with our leadership guys/seniors, and didn't show up as well.

Again, discipline problems leading to other problems...
Click to expand...

Spare the rod, spoil the child.........RTR:wink:
 
There's an interesting article in Maxim magazine (December 2006, pages 120-126) about the fall of the Dallas Cowboys -- the drugs, the partying, the strippers, the violence, etc.

Here's a quote from Jim Jeffcoat (Cowboys DE, 1983-94):

"If certain players did certain things, he [Jimmy Johnson] would overlook it. But if he ever had the opportunity to make an example of a player that he didn't need, he was going to do that."

Does this sound familiar?
 
THE BAMA IRISHMAN said:
He is right about the staff playing favorites - duhhh like we did not know that. The fact remains he is still a punk. He should not have waited until now to express himself. If he had something to say he should have let'er rip when he quit the team. You know let it all out, if not have a BIG Cup of Shut Up, MARC. :BigA:
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Actually, holding his tongue until XCMS's dismissal was the right thing to do. You know, you can have "TOO" much of a "PLAYERS COACH".
 
TRUTIDE said:
So this is where this lack of discipline stuff is coming from? A disgruntled QB?

Well I would say that there are all kinds of different levels of discipline. I gaurantee that if we looked at how we discipline our own kids then we would divide out into some pretty distinct groups. When we have discussed teachers disciplining kids at school on the non sports forum, there are many differing views there. As far as coaches, I am sure that Bear had a different discipline philosophy than say Pete Carroll at USC and Jimmy Johnson at Miami but I do not doubt that most coaches treat different players differently. Some players will respond differently to different treatment and most QBs these days are more sensitive than say a linebacker or DE.

Regardless of what some will admit, Shula was in a unique position. He did not have a lot of quality players to work with but he was still expected to put a top notch product on the field and to win every game. It may have taken balancing out some eqos to make things work. Just because the media was not happy with the way he handled discipline situations does not mean they were not being handled. He may have saw community service as having more of an impact on a player than suspending him. We may not agree with everything he did from a discipline stand point, Paul Finebaum may not have been happy with not being in the know about what was going on over there but we were not in Shula's situation and have never had a coach that has been put in his situation. He had to deal with the team in the best way that he thought worked.
Click to expand...

Your remarks about Coach Bryant are way off base, he treated all players the same, if you screwed up and got caught, he nailed you. As for other Coaches I can't say, but Coach Bryant treated all players the same as far as the rules go.
There are hundred's of stories about the disciple of the team under Caoch Shula, I'll let the MOD's address that.
I just know that I'll be behind who MM brings in.Coach Moore knows what it takes to be a success and I know he will bring iin the best coach available...
 
BamaFan in Germantown said:
Your remarks about Coach Bryant are way off base, he treated all players the same, if you screwed up and got caught, he nailed you. As for other Coaches I can't say, but Coach Bryant treated all players the same as far as the rules go.
There are hundred's of stories about the disciple of the team under Caoch Shula, I'll let the MOD's address that.
I just know that I'll be behind who MM brings in.Coach Moore knows what it takes to be a success and I know he will bring iin the best coach available...
Click to expand...

As much as we would like to think Coach Bryant was perfect he admitted to making a few mistakes along the way.
 
after 25 years of coaching high school sports, i think it is safe to say that if you discipline the best 3-4 players on the team on a daily basis....sometimes in a nice, easy-going way....sometimes by riding their butts unmercifully....you usually have discipline on the whole team without a whole lot of work.

if you play favorites and let them ride, you're asking for the walls to come crumbling down
 
TerryP said:
Folks, don't be deceived...that part of what he's saying is true. Sadly enough, some of the players you hear talking are part of that "favorite group."

When Brodie was on campus he used to show up late to all the meetings...other players would, and then get chewed out by Shula. Never happened to Brodie.

So, what did they do? Showed up late, but made sure they were walking in with Brodie...literally daring Shula to say something.

I can't blame them. You couldn't count on two hands and your toes the times Shula had meetings set, sometimes with our leadership guys/seniors, and didn't show up as well.

Again, discipline problems leading to other problems...
Click to expand...

If this was coming from someone else I wouldn't believe it. Why were we not told this before he was canned? Or is this just piling on?
 
I bet if MG would have been the starter then all of CMS methods would have been fine. Sour grapes....hope the kid finds something in life that makes him happy.

I keep hearing about discipline and yet people continue to bring up the Darby over Johns question. Am I the only one that thought Johns was a keg waiting to explode? Seemed like so many times when he was in the game we got flagged for stupid stuff like head butts or illegal blocks. Was he not allowed on the field because of his lack of discipline? And while Darby did not have a great year he didn't stink it up either, he contributed.
 
Guillon is the only Alabama player I have ever flat out disliked. I have never liked his attitude. It never seemed like he ever really wanted to play to me because of his mysterious back problems.
 
Well here's my take on what MG said,
First, i dont know about the disciplinary issues but if what Terry said was true then that's outrageous and it should be a dark mark in Shula's tenure..

Second, I think everybody knows that JPW was better than MG and I dont think that MG disputes that deep inside.. he said they were not given good QB plays but also he did not say that he's better.. but anyways, I do not think there's a dispute as to who is better

Third, timing of the statement "I think" is fine especially since MG seemed to be a good buddy with many football players and I am assuming some of these players were among that "favorite" group. Therefore, you do not want be the one that spoils the joy for your buddies. But now that Shula is gone, I think he did the right thing of talking now that no one gets hurt.. "except Shula of course".. and if MG did not like him to begin with, then his timing is right on...

JMO :smile:
 
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