The Wheels are Falling Off

[TideAlum]

You seem to be missing the bigger picture. :conf2:

Please enlighten me as to how I'm missing the bigger picture. If the bigger picture is "the wheels are falling off" because Tubbs left, then we're not looking at the same picture.

What does the bigger picture look like when Hendrix, Steele, and Gee are starting for Alabama in Maui next season?

The sky is not falling. If you look at college basketball outside of Tuscaloosa, AL, you would know that transfers are quite common...in almost all programs. The SEC West school with the most transfers in CMG's tenure is MSU. They also happen to have the most SEC West titles. I guess no one told them that the wheels were falling off...

CMG has a lot of issues that could be points of contention. The transfer issue is blown WAY out of proportion.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

To clarify, for newer members, a flat statement made with no source named is officially a "rumor." Postings on other boards or "a friend told me" don't qualify as sources. Sources must be either named or public. Staff may publish statements which are not attributable. We are to be judged on our track record. We are not correct 100% of the time (for one thing, the facts change under your feet as you are making a statement - it's happened to me). However, there are many things we could not share, if we had to attribute. I hope this clarifies how we treat sensitive matters like this. I'm reading a lot of "CMG is gone" statements as akin to an emotional wish (or prayer), but people pick up on them and think they have some basis in fact...

 

[CrimsonBleedRed]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the AD have to power to hire/fire every coach in every sport at a University?

The reason I bring this up, while the basketball program is nowhere near the level of of the football program, but you don't want your BB program (men or women) to be forgotten programs, either. I understand Alabama basketball will never attract the BIG NAME COACH (like the football team attracted Nick Saban), but you can't tell me that there isn't young, more appropiate coach out there that would be considered an upgrade over Gottfried?

I mean, if Alabama has lost 8-10 players due to transfer, then there is somethng up with the coach. IMO, if it's broke, you have to fix it. So if Moore was quick to fired Shula (Alum to Alabama, just like Gottfried), why isn't he quick to fired a worse coach?

 

[BamaFan in Germantown]

I'm going to restrict the flat statements that CMG is gone, with no proof being offered. It is simply not true. He has been assured of another year. Tubbs and Pickett's leaving will not change that. The only thing which would change it would be for a "deep pocket" to step forward and write the check and I just don't see that happening. Those are the facts as of today, and, unless they change, I'm not going to allow baseless statements that he's about to be fired. PS: The players will be the last to know...

I have but one question, what will be the excuse next year? This year it was no RS.
ROLL TIDE

 

[LCN]

How do you "fired" someone ? :wink:

I mean, if Alabama has lost 8-10 players due to transfer, then there is somethng up with the coach. IMO, if it's broke, you have to fix it. So if Moore was quick to fired Shula (Alum to Alabama, just like Gottfried), why isn't he quick to fired a worse coach?

 

[mark4tide]

CMG has a lot of issues that could be points of contention. The transfer issue is blown WAY out of proportion.

How is the transfer issue blown way out of proportion? When you have at least two players a year transfer there is a problem. The interview with Pickett in the Decatur Daily said that CMG lied to him. That is only one side of the story. If it is true then there is a problem there. With guys leaving to go to places like UT-Chattanooga and other smaller schools there are some deeper issues in the program.

 

[TideAlum]

How is the transfer issue blown way out of proportion? When you have at least two players a year transfer there is a problem. The interview with Pickett in the Decatur Daily said that CMG lied to him. That is only one side of the story. If it is true then there is a problem there. With guys leaving to go to places like UT-Chattanooga and other smaller schools there are some deeper issues in the program.

I guess you didn't read the remainder of my post about how frequently transfers happen in basketball programs. I believe Alabama is 5th in the SEC over CMG's tenure. Some other programs that have had more transfers are Florida, Kentucky, and LSU.

As an aside, if you choose to believe the Picketts' side of the story, then we really have no place for debate. Their side is incorrect and several sources will support CMG's side. You clearly did not remember the previous incidents with Rico this season. Nor did you remember what a delusional parent of a college athlete sounded like. I don't remember our fans quickly siding with parents of ex-Bama QBs when they made claims about UA.

I think you're grinding your ax on the wrong issue within the program.

 

[mark4tide]

I guess you didn't read the remainder of my post about how frequently transfers happen in basketball programs. I believe Alabama is 5th in the SEC over CMG's tenure. Some other programs that have had more transfers are Florida, Kentucky, and LSU.

As an aside, if you choose to believe the Picketts' side of the story, then we really have no place for debate. Their side is incorrect and several sources will support CMG's side. You clearly did not remember the previous incidents with Rico this season. Nor did you remember what a delusional parent of a college athlete sounded like. I don't remember our fans quickly siding with parents of ex-Bama QBs when they made claims about UA.

I think you're grinding your ax on the wrong issue within the program.

Prove that Alabama is 5th in the SEC. Florida and Kentucky with more transfers. You have got to be kidding me. I guess you did not read the rest of my post about it only being one side of the story. My Mom tought at the school that Pickett went through. I know what he has some character flaws. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It is not like the transfers are going to better schools.

 

[TideAlum]

Prove that Alabama is 5th in the SEC. Florida and Kentucky with more transfers. You have got to be kidding me. I guess you did not read the rest of my post about it only being one side of the story. My Mom tought at the school that Pickett went through. I know what he has some character flaws. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It is not like the transfers are going to better schools.

Here's a list I collected from another site. I've added Pickett and Tubbs to our list. Added Hansbrough to MSU's. Added Bell to Vandy's. There could be a few mistakes here and there, but this is the list I could find the quickest for you.

Bottom line is that Alabama's "ongoing problem" is no different than the rest of the SEC's. So...is it a problem? I hope this list gives you a better view of the climate of college basketball.

Alabama- Avery Jukes, Verice Cloyd, Akini Adkins, Shawn Taylor, Albert Weber, Glen Miles, LaKory Daniels, Justin Jonas, Justin Tubbs, Rico Pickett. (10)

Arkansas- Sylvester Seay, Preston Cranford, Sean McCurdy, Berry Jordan, JJ Sullinger, Wen Mukubu, Rashard Sullivan, Kendrick Davis. (8)

Auburn- Toney Douglas, Lewis Monroe, Marco Killingsworth, DeWayne Curtis, Joey Cameron, Kelvin Lewis, Brandon Robinson, Ryan Daniel, Michael Woodard, Emmanuel Lewis, Daniel Hayles, Moses Edun. (12)

Florida- Teddy Dupay (gambling), Christian Dreijer (to play pro), Brandon Powell, David Huertas, Ryan Appleby, Mohammed Abukar, Mario Boggan, James White, Jimmie Sutton, Orien Green, Rashid Al-Kaleem. (11)

Georgia- Channing Toney, Wayne Arnold, Marcus Sikes, Younes Idrissi, Kendrick Johnson, Steve Thomas, Mike Dean. (7)

Kentucky (under Tubby)- Adam Williams, Bernard Cote, Rekalin Sims, Shagari Alleyne, Jason Parker, Marvin Stone, Myron Anthony, Corey Sears, Desmond Allison, Nate Knight, Todd Tackett, Rashaad Carruth, Adam Chiles, Michael Bradley. (14)

LSU- Ross Neltner, Magnum Rolle, Ben Voogd, Kentrell Gransberry, Tack Minor, Regis Koundija, Josh Maravich, JueMichael Young, Mildon Ambres, Tim Bush, Tony Gipson. (11)

Mississippi State- Richard Delk, Reginald Delk, Vernon Goodridge, Bernard Rimmer, Gary Ervin, Walter Sharpe, Jerrell Houston, Steven Cowherd, Ben Hansbrough. (9)

Ole Miss- Justin Cerasoli, Trey Hampton, Andy Ogide, Xavier Hansbro (4)

South Carolina- Jason Parker, Dameon Kinloch, Travis Kraft, Calvin Clemmons, Jojo Cadray, Issa Konare, Marcus Morrison, Paulius Jonelunius, Stephen McDowell, Ousmane Konate, Jarrod Gerald, Keving Palacios, Greg Taylor. (13)

Tennessee- Marques Johnson, Harris Walker, Terrance Woods, Boomer Herndon, Damion Harris, John Winchester, Elgrace Wilborn, Tony Passley. (8)

Vanderbilt- Richmond, Jones, Kreuger, Plavich, Thornton, Payton, Carroll, Madsen, Brown, Bell. (10)

 

[Ldlane]

Justin Tubbs request his release.

http://www.tidesports.com/article/20080408/NEWS/201707175/1011

Well, I guess my post in the other thread won't come about to be as far as him getting more playing time! Shucks!

 

[RTR91]

I won't be surprised at all if Mikhail Torrence is the next to request a transfer and Gee announces he's going Pro.

I hear that he is asking out.

 

[Ldlane]

Do you think that CMG is holding a "Junction" during off-season?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I have but one question, what will be the excuse next year? This year it was no RS.

Not sure why you're asking me...

 

[BocaLance]

Please enlighten me as to how I'm missing the bigger picture. If the bigger picture is "the wheels are falling off" because Tubbs left, then we're not looking at the same picture.

What does the bigger picture look like when Hendrix, Steele, and Gee are starting for Alabama in Maui next season?

The sky is not falling. If you look at college basketball outside of Tuscaloosa, AL, you would know that transfers are quite common...in almost all programs. The SEC West school with the most transfers in CMG's tenure is MSU. They also happen to have the most SEC West titles. I guess no one told them that the wheels were falling off...

CMG has a lot of issues that could be points of contention. The transfer issue is blown WAY out of proportion.

Hendrix and Gee started this year and look where the team ended up. Are you saying Steele fixes all? Right now there is a fairly reasonable chance that four guys, two starters and two reserves, will not be playing next year ... maybe more ... from a team that was already mediocre at best. This team isn't worth to me getting into verbal jabs over with fellow alums/fans, however, so I'll simply choose to see the picture through my own glasses.

 

[BamaLaw]

... if Avery Jukes can play at Butler University, he's a pretty good ball player.
I personally think Tubbs was a very good defender. Some games he was sent in specifically for defensive purposes.
Simple fact. When so many players are looking to leave a program, there's something wrong inside the program.
I have no idea what's going on exactly but I do have a feeling that the title of this thread is not that far off base.

alasippi

I have to agree with you on all points.

From many of those who have left the program early during Gottfried's tenure, the story told has been the same. I can't speak to the accuracy of what players who have left the program say--especially since they are understandably disgruntled and by their own admission each have a bone to pick with Gottfried. With that being said, it does seem that Gottfried is much more the problem with the program, than just being a poor in-game coach.

Among other things, I think his personality is an issue. I've commented before about how different CMG is from student athlete MG. MG was a great guy with a magnetic personality. People actually enjoyed being around him. CMG is very different. As to that, I have to agree with the assessments that I have heard from multiple callers on various sports talk radio shows, and that is that CMG is a condescending arrogant *** If his disposition around his team is at all similar to the way he has been known to treat folks in the hospitality and service industries, I can easily believe the negatives I've heard regarding issues which led to many of the defections.

Despite the fact that some of the defectors have been problem players, I think it is clear that Gottfried is at the very least a significant part of the problem. Then, again, any way you slice it, the buck stops at the top and the head coach is ultimately responsible for whatever happens with his team--good and bad.

If the players who left were "not that good," who recruited/signed them in the first place? If there are character issues, did those issues exist when they were recruited or did they develop under Gottfried's watch? Again, either Gottfried recruited problem players, or they became problem players under his watch.

Most people, fans and pundits alike seem to agree that the 07-08 basketball Tide was made up of tremendously talented individuals. If that was indeed true, then whose responsibility was it to draw that talent out of the players and mold them into a team.

We saw a glimpse of what those guys were capable of doing in the last three games they played. The right coach, who could get the most out of his team would have been able to get that kind of effort teamwork throughout the entire season.

Bottom line: Is Gottfried more of a liability or an asset? I think we all know how I answer that question.

 

[BamaMan34]

I agree with you. And I can assure you, if Avery Jukes can play at Butler University, he's a pretty good ball player.
I personally think Tubbs was a very good defender. Some games he was sent in specifically for defensive purposes.
Simple fact. When so many players are looking to leave a program, there's something wrong inside the program.
I have no idea what's going on exactly but I do have a feeling that the title of this thread is not that far off base.

alasippi

Have you looked at his stats at Butler? Played in about half their games.

 

[BamaMan34]

Here's a list I collected from another site. I've added Pickett and Tubbs to our list. Added Hansbrough to MSU's. Added Bell to Vandy's. There could be a few mistakes here and there, but this is the list I could find the quickest for you.

Bottom line is that Alabama's "ongoing problem" is no different than the rest of the SEC's. So...is it a problem? I hope this list gives you a better view of the climate of college basketball.

Alabama- Avery Jukes, Verice Cloyd, Akini Adkins, Shawn Taylor, Albert Weber, Glen Miles, LaKory Daniels, Justin Jonas, Justin Tubbs, Rico Pickett. (10)

Arkansas- Sylvester Seay, Preston Cranford, Sean McCurdy, Berry Jordan, JJ Sullinger, Wen Mukubu, Rashard Sullivan, Kendrick Davis. (8)

Auburn- Toney Douglas, Lewis Monroe, Marco Killingsworth, DeWayne Curtis, Joey Cameron, Kelvin Lewis, Brandon Robinson, Ryan Daniel, Michael Woodard, Emmanuel Lewis, Daniel Hayles, Moses Edun. (12)

Florida- Teddy Dupay (gambling), Christian Dreijer (to play pro), Brandon Powell, David Huertas, Ryan Appleby, Mohammed Abukar, Mario Boggan, James White, Jimmie Sutton, Orien Green, Rashid Al-Kaleem. (11)

Georgia- Channing Toney, Wayne Arnold, Marcus Sikes, Younes Idrissi, Kendrick Johnson, Steve Thomas, Mike Dean. (7)

Kentucky (under Tubby)- Adam Williams, Bernard Cote, Rekalin Sims, Shagari Alleyne, Jason Parker, Marvin Stone, Myron Anthony, Corey Sears, Desmond Allison, Nate Knight, Todd Tackett, Rashaad Carruth, Adam Chiles, Michael Bradley. (14)

LSU- Ross Neltner, Magnum Rolle, Ben Voogd, Kentrell Gransberry, Tack Minor, Regis Koundija, Josh Maravich, JueMichael Young, Mildon Ambres, Tim Bush, Tony Gipson. (11)

Mississippi State- Richard Delk, Reginald Delk, Vernon Goodridge, Bernard Rimmer, Gary Ervin, Walter Sharpe, Jerrell Houston, Steven Cowherd, Ben Hansbrough. (9)

Ole Miss- Justin Cerasoli, Trey Hampton, Andy Ogide, Xavier Hansbro (4)

South Carolina- Jason Parker, Dameon Kinloch, Travis Kraft, Calvin Clemmons, Jojo Cadray, Issa Konare, Marcus Morrison, Paulius Jonelunius, Stephen McDowell, Ousmane Konate, Jarrod Gerald, Keving Palacios, Greg Taylor. (13)

Tennessee- Marques Johnson, Harris Walker, Terrance Woods, Boomer Herndon, Damion Harris, John Winchester, Elgrace Wilborn, Tony Passley. (8)

Vanderbilt- Richmond, Jones, Kreuger, Plavich, Thornton, Payton, Carroll, Madsen, Brown, Bell. (10)

How dare you use facts and research in a post?

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

How dare you use facts and research in a post?

Great context. Thanks for the list.

 

[GrandBayTider]

Alabama- Avery Jukes, Verice Cloyd, Akini Adkins, Shawn Taylor, Albert Weber, Glen Miles, LaKory Daniels, Justin Jonas, Justin Tubbs, Rico Pickett. (10)

Arkansas- Sylvester Seay, Preston Cranford, Sean McCurdy, Berry Jordan, JJ Sullinger, Wen Mukubu, Rashard Sullivan, Kendrick Davis. (8)

Auburn- Toney Douglas, Lewis Monroe, Marco Killingsworth, DeWayne Curtis, Joey Cameron, Kelvin Lewis, Brandon Robinson, Ryan Daniel, Michael Woodard, Emmanuel Lewis, Daniel Hayles, Moses Edun. (12)

Florida- Teddy Dupay (gambling), Christian Dreijer (to play pro), Brandon Powell, David Huertas, Ryan Appleby, Mohammed Abukar, Mario Boggan, James White, Jimmie Sutton, Orien Green, Rashid Al-Kaleem. (11)

Georgia- Channing Toney, Wayne Arnold, Marcus Sikes, Younes Idrissi, Kendrick Johnson, Steve Thomas, Mike Dean. (7)

Kentucky (under Tubby)- Adam Williams, Bernard Cote, Rekalin Sims, Shagari Alleyne, Jason Parker, Marvin Stone, Myron Anthony, Corey Sears, Desmond Allison, Nate Knight, Todd Tackett, Rashaad Carruth, Adam Chiles, Michael Bradley. (14)

LSU- Ross Neltner, Magnum Rolle, Ben Voogd, Kentrell Gransberry, Tack Minor, Regis Koundija, Josh Maravich, JueMichael Young, Mildon Ambres, Tim Bush, Tony Gipson. (11)

Mississippi State- Richard Delk, Reginald Delk, Vernon Goodridge, Bernard Rimmer, Gary Ervin, Walter Sharpe, Jerrell Houston, Steven Cowherd, Ben Hansbrough. (9)

Ole Miss- Justin Cerasoli, Trey Hampton, Andy Ogide, Xavier Hansbro (4)

South Carolina- Jason Parker, Dameon Kinloch, Travis Kraft, Calvin Clemmons, Jojo Cadray, Issa Konare, Marcus Morrison, Paulius Jonelunius, Stephen McDowell, Ousmane Konate, Jarrod Gerald, Keving Palacios, Greg Taylor. (13)

Tennessee- Marques Johnson, Harris Walker, Terrance Woods, Boomer Herndon, Damion Harris, John Winchester, Elgrace Wilborn, Tony Passley. (8)

Vanderbilt- Richmond, Jones, Kreuger, Plavich, Thornton, Payton, Carroll, Madsen, Brown, Bell. (10)

Excellent post, actually providing substantiated statistics rather than vague comments based on a small biased sample. Transfers are a common occurence in college basketball today because players are focused on getting playing time and if they aren't getting it at one place will try to find someplace else to make it happen. I think one of the more telling pieces of information is how many players have transferred and prospered? The only one I can think of is Justin Jonas at Troy, where he had several good scoring games this year. But it is interesting how most of the players have transferred to smaller schools but still aren't putting up big numbers against "lesser" competition. So it stands to reason they probably wouldn't be putting up big numbers in the SEC if they had stayed at Alabama. So maybe their playing time was equivalent to their talent?

 

[lafella]

Mikhail Torrance - Staying?

Despite what you may have heard on talk radio in Birmingham throughout the day, the sophomore point guard from Prichard is staying at Alabama.

"Mikhail is happy at Alabama," his mother, Leola, said Tuesday afternoon. "He loves it. He hasn't said anything about (transferring).

"I think I would have heard something (if he was planning to leave school)."

Then she said she was calling Mikhail to let him know what was being said about him.

Hendrix - Declared - (TBD if he will return next year)

Steele - Declared - (Can't see how he won't return next year)

Tubbs - Transferring

Tubbs, a 6-foot-3 reserve from Trussville, played 12.3 minutes and averaged 3.1 points per game as the 11th man off the bench. A source said Tubbs has been looking to transfer for some time because he likely would have been left out in a scholarship numbers crunch for next season.

If two players who are testing the NBA draft waters - Ronald Steele and Richard Hendrix - return, and if point guard Rico Pickett decides to stay at UA, the Tide would have 13 players on scholarship. That's the NCAA limit, leaving Tubbs on the outside.

Pickett - Transferring

Pickett added, "It's not the school, it's not the team. That's fine. It's me and the coaching staff. The whole year I was kind of unhappy with them, and when I say I'm unhappy, that's what I mean by that. It's the coaching staff, it's not the players or the school."

Gee - There was a news bit on Alabama basketball transfers and declarations on Fox 10 at 5pm and they had NBA ( Europe league beside his name) kinda looked at iit funny but was heading out the door for baseball... what is with this I haven't seen anything else on it?