New OL Coach - Who would You Hire???

[tidefan39817]

The word before the quarterfinal game was that they were working on an extension. Nothing has happened since then to change that, so odds are, they are still working on one. If id asked everyone on here before the season, most them would have said they'd be happy with an 11 win season and a playoff victory, but now it's suddenly not good enough. We are continuing to nail recruiting , so the results on the field are only going to get better as DeBoer continues to bring his guys in and along. Just gotta trust the process.

its not that it isn't good enough. I don't mind losing a game but it's how you lose that bothers me. if you are going to go down, go down fighting like you are the third monkey on the arc and it just started raining. don't just "give up" and go out like you don't care.

 

[CrimsonTitles]

its not that it isn't good enough. I don't mind losing a game but it's how you lose that bothers me. if you are going to go down, go down fighting like you are the third monkey on the arc and it just started raining. don't just "give up" and go out like you don't care.

I don't think that's what happened at all. I think our defense held up as long as they could, but eventually, being on the field the entire game will catch up to you. If Ty had been healthy and not had his injury aggravated in that game, then who know what would have happened. DeBoer would be far from the first coach to be blown out in the postseason, and then lager win a natty. I can think of 2 examples of the top of my head. Dabo was blown out something like 70-33 against West Virginia in a bowl, and 3 years later, he had created the only program that was ever able to go head to head with the greatest dynasty the sports world has ever seen, and more than hold his own. In 2020, we beat Ohio State 52-24 in the natty, and they won a natty themselves 4 years later, so it's not at all an indicator of future success. Sometimes it's just part of the process.

 

[KrAzY3]

Sometimes you gotta just bow up and run the play that's called. Force your will on your opponent.

This is where the run aspects are absolutely vital to me. If you are a physical team that has established the run, sometimes you can just go out there and run it when everyone in the entire stadium knows what you are about to do.

The ability to as you put it "force your will on your opponent" is vital. You draw up a passing play, the guy has to be open right? You can't force you will in the same way because there's not much you can do if the defender is in perfect position. The run game though? There is, because unlike passing plays where you can't interfere, you can just run them over! They can be in position and you can do it anyway!

This is a vital part in my opinion to having an offense that works correctly. You're not sitting here saying oh but if the QB hadn't been hurt, or oh if the receivers hadn't been hurt, because you could still move the ball under those circumstances. May be forcing your QB to scramble around like his hair is on fire because you can't run the ball isn't the greatest approach. One approach leaves you with excuses when you fail, the other gives you a solution.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't think that's what happened at all. I think our defense held up as long as they could, but eventually, being on the field the entire game will catch up to you. If Ty had been healthy and not had his injury aggravated in that game, then who know what would have happened. DeBoer would be far from the first coach to be blown out in the postseason, and then lager win a natty. I can think of 2 examples of the top of my head. Dabo was blown out something like 70-33 against West Virginia in a bowl, and 3 years later, he had created the only program that was ever able to go head to head with the greatest dynasty the sports world has ever seen, and more than hold his own. In 2020, we beat Ohio State 52-24 in the natty, and they won a natty themselves 4 years later, so it's not at all an indicator of future success. Sometimes it's just part of the process.

Getting blown out happens from time to time. But we've been blown out four times in two years, three being this past season on national stages. That's too many and when you've now been blown out that many times in the first two seasons of a new regime, it doesn't instill confidence in the fanbase. There are patterns that have shown themselves in the first two years that are very concerning. We're now going into year 3. Will those same things still exist in year 3 as they have the past two years? That's what I'm waiting to see.

 

[CrimsonTitles]

Getting blown out happens from time to time. But we've been blown out four times in two years, three being this past season on national stages. That's too many and when you've now been blown out that many times in the first two seasons of a new regime, it doesn't instill confidence in the fanbase. There are patterns that have shown themselves in the first two years that are very concerning. We're now going into year 3. Will those same things still exist in year 3 as they have the past two years? That's what I'm waiting to see.

But who has done better than DeBoer the past 2 years, while also playing as tough of a schedule as he has had to deal with? Nobody We faced an absolute gauntlet this season, and yet we still made the playoffs and won a playoff game. Say what you want about whatever these so called negative patterns are, but I'd say that navigating these types of schedules is a pretty big feat in itself. That's not even mentioning the toll that a schedule like that can take on a team, and I think that is probably the biggest culprit for UGA game and probably the Indiana game too. I mean, I know ty was not as healthy in that game as we were led to believe, so it stands to reason that goes for a lot of the team.

 

[rtr90]

its not that it isn't good enough. I don't mind losing a game but it's how you lose that bothers me. if you are going to go down, go down fighting like you are the third monkey on the arc and it just started raining. don't just "give up" and go out like you don't care.

That is what I appreciated most of CNS teams even from MSU era to early Bama ... never got blown out. The losses were always within1-2 scores and team was fighting till end.

 

[gtgilbert]

This entire situation is part of why I think you try to limit how much you put on the shoulder of the QB in the first place, and I've been saying this for a couple years now, how much freedom the QB has to make the play call.

I get it, you need to be able to audible, you need to be able to run the RPO, and these things give some leave way to the QB. But you also need guardrails. One is that the play caller (which should be the OC) needs to be able to assert himself well enough that the play calling reflects what he wants, for instance more balance in the offense, less QB runs, etc...

The other is you just can't put too much on your QBs shoulders anyway, especially if they are a dual threat QB. This is easy to understand when you think of it in terms of sheer math. If I have a QB trying to read the defense and make an audible if needs be, then decide how to run the RPO out of that, if he's pro style, he's just basically choosing run/pass and all his choices are based on that.

If he's dual threat though, he's now reading the defense, making adjustments, doing all these things with a third variable, run/pass/QB run. It makes it much more complicated. From binary to ternary. That's over 50% more information to process.

If you take a QB and ask him to account for nearly 70% of the offense, basically winning the game is on his shoulders, then you let him have information overload, trying to process way more information than a pro style QB, you're putting way too much strain on them. The OC and the run game both need to do a better job of taking some of that burden away.

ok - there's a TON to unpack here.

First, running an RPO with a IZR/OZR is actually a more simple read process than an RPO with a full field passing approach, OR a pro-style offense

There usually isn't a box count because the play is open to run/run/pass. QB gets the snap and reads one player to determine give/keep. If keep, there's typically a single player read to determine QB run, versus pass. Both those are pretty simple reads. If pass, the QB is usually only dealing with half the field, so again, there's less to process to determine what route should be open. It's all pretty sequential and typically single player focused reads (at least at once) with the occasional 2 player read.

The depth of what a QB processes in a pro-style or RPO/blended pro-style passing attack is way, way more complex. Box count, strong/weak balance count, secondary depth, alignment (1 deep, 2 deep, cover 0, etc). Then, depending on the play, there are usually multiple read-points to reach the first decision post snap, and there are several steps in the progression after that. It's just way, way more to process, and they've got like 0.5-1 seconds from the snap to make the first read. That said, that's the job requirements. QBs have to be able to process all that to be successful in balanced offense pro-style offense.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

But who has done better than DeBoer the past 2 years, while also playing as tough of a schedule as he has had to deal with? Nobody We faced an absolute gauntlet this season, and yet we still made the playoffs and won a playoff game. Say what you want about whatever these so called negative patterns are, but I'd say that navigating these types of schedules is a pretty big feat in itself. That's not even mentioning the toll that a schedule like that can take on a team, and I think that is probably the biggest culprit for UGA game and probably the Indiana game too. I mean, I know ty was not as healthy in that game as we were led to believe, so it stands to reason that goes for a lot of the team.

I just don't agree with your assessment. We've had a more talented roster for the past two seasons than teams that have not only done better than us, but have humiliated us on the field. Other teams have done more with less. The "we play in the SEC" doesn't fly anymore with anyone other than those who are stuck in the SEC's golden age of the recent past. We're no longer the toughest/best conference. We're getting handled in out of conference games when not that long ago it would never happen. I can name several teams who have done better than DeBoer the last two years and done it with less talent. That's what concerning a lot of Bama fans. It doesn't mean I want him fired, I actually want him to succeed. It does us no good to have to fire him. But I also know some of the things I've seen in the first two seasons are very concerning and if not fixed, will keep us losing four games a season and we won't sniff a national title.

We're entering year three, and I hope that whatever the staff works on this offseason fixes the things I've seen. If it does, then great, we're on our way to being NC contenders again. I don't care how it's done, I'm just tired of watching us get blown out multiple times on big stages, getting pushed around on offense and looking like a very unphysical football team. I'm also tired of seeing multiple games per season where they show up looking like no one is prepared and just going through the motions. That's not the Alabama football I llike watching.

 

[Bama Shoals]

But who has done better than DeBoer the past 2 years, while also playing as tough of a schedule as he has had to deal with? Nobody We faced an absolute gauntlet this season, and yet we still made the playoffs and won a playoff game. Say what you want about whatever these so called negative patterns are, but I'd say that navigating these types of schedules is a pretty big feat in itself. That's not even mentioning the toll that a schedule like that can take on a team, and I think that is probably the biggest culprit for UGA game and probably the Indiana game too. I mean, I know ty was not as healthy in that game as we were led to believe, so it stands to reason that goes for a lot of the team.

These arguments don't hold up well when a coach just won a national championship in his second year!! And you might say Indiana played a Big 10 schedule. But the Big 10 has won the last three national championships and they have been handling the SEC in bowl games. It's time for results!

 

[CrimsonTitles]

These arguments don't hold up well when a coach just won a national championship in his second year!! And you might say Indiana played a Big 10 schedule. But the Big 10 has won the last three national championships and they have been handling the SEC in bowl games. It's time for results!

A big part of that is having a weak enough schedule that you can stay healthy for an entire season. Indiana did not have the injury issues that we had to deal with this season. Last I checked, DeBoer made it to the natty in his second season at Washington, so he's capable of doing it, because he's already done it.

 

[KrAzY3]

ok - there's a TON to unpack here.

First, running an RPO with a IZR/OZR is actually a more simple read process than an RPO with a full field passing approach, OR a pro-style offense

There usually isn't a box count because the play is open to run/run/pass. QB gets the snap and reads one player to determine give/keep. If keep, there's typically a single player read to determine QB run, versus pass. Both those are pretty simple reads. If pass, the QB is usually only dealing with half the field, so again, there's less to process to determine what route should be open. It's all pretty sequential and typically single player focused reads (at least at once) with the occasional 2 player read.

The depth of what a QB processes in a pro-style or RPO/blended pro-style passing attack is way, way more complex. Box count, strong/weak balance count, secondary depth, alignment (1 deep, 2 deep, cover 0, etc). Then, depending on the play, there are usually multiple read-points to reach the first decision post snap, and there are several steps in the progression after that. It's just way, way more to process, and they've got like 0.5-1 seconds from the snap to make the first read. That said, that's the job requirements. QBs have to be able to process all that to be successful in balanced offense pro-style offense.

I'm admittedly not an X and Os guy, but isn't what Alabama is running a pro style that used the RPO? If I call it west coast (philosophically, not actual air raid though it still has some of those elements as well correct?) I will get corrected into calling it pro style. But it uses the RPO as well, clearly as that was discussed at length with Milroe running it in 2024.

I was when I say pro style or dual threat QB trying to speak to the type of QB and whether or not he has an element of the QB run in this arsenal. For example, Ty Simpson was second on the team in rushing attempts last year with 90. Penix never exceeded 35 (also speaks to how much better protected he was), so that's a dramatic difference and why I would categorize Ty as dual threat and Penix as not.

If I'm following you correctly, what Alabama is running is complex right? Now, yes we agree the job of a QB is to do those things and ultimately make plays, but I believe there's a threshold in which virtually anyone would be overwhelmed. Even Penix had his breaking point, and we saw not just Milroe get overwhelmed but also Ty.

When the QB is out there trying to do it all by himself, he's as you alluded to processing tons of information, without a safety valve! He can't just put some faith in the running game to have his back and help him out if he doesn't have a running game. It puts it all on his shoulders, and it's all well and good when it's smooth sailing, but once cracks start to emerge you can go from swimming to drowning. Making sure you don't drown your QB, by basically saying here beat the other team by yourself, to me is essential.

 

[CrimsonTitles]

I just don't agree with your assessment. We've had a more talented roster for the past two seasons than teams that have not only done better than us, but have humiliated us on the field. Other teams have done more with less. The "we play in the SEC" doesn't fly anymore with anyone other than those who are stuck in the SEC's golden age of the recent past. We're no longer the toughest/best conference. We're getting handled in out of conference games when not that long ago it would never happen. I can name several teams who have done better than DeBoer the last two years and done it with less talent. That's what concerning a lot of Bama fans. It doesn't mean I want him fired, I actually want him to succeed. It does us no good to have to fire him. But I also know some of the things I've seen in the first two seasons are very concerning and if not fixed, will keep us losing four games a season and we won't sniff a national title.

We're entering year three, and I hope that whatever the staff works on this offseason fixes the things I've seen. If it does, then great, we're on our way to being NC contenders again. I don't care how it's done, I'm just tired of watching us get blown out multiple times on big stages, getting pushed around on offense and looking like a very unphysical football team. I'm also tired of seeing multiple games per season where they show up looking like no one is prepared and just going through the motions. That's not the Alabama football I llike watching.

Talent means nothing if it doesn't fit what you want to do. Besides, Gorgia and Ohio State both have comparably talented rosters and finished the same as we did this season. The only thing I care about is contending for a national title most every season, and winning one every 5 years, or so. If there are a few blowouts along the way, then so be it. I think the changing landscape in college football has a lot to do with it, and I think we should expect this to happen more than it used to, no matter who the coach is. I think the worst thing that could've happened to the program is Saban making it to the playoffs in 2023 with that team and that QB. It was the greatest coaching job of the GOAT's career, and now we're holding the new coach to that same standard? Let's be reasonable here. It's a process, and it takes what it takes. No amount of rushing is going to change that. If we wanna judge DeBoer based on a Saban-like scale, then we should be prepared for 20 years of mediocrity and a revolving door of coaches. Before we even start blaming the coach for anything, we need to get NIL figured out first.

 

[KrAzY3]

Talent means nothing if it doesn't fit what you want to do. Besides, Gorgia and Ohio State both have comparably talented rosters and finished the same as we did this season. The only thing I care about is contending for a national title most every season, and winning one every 5 years, or so. If there are a few blowouts along the way, then so be it. I think the changing landscape in college football has a lot to do with it, and I think we should expect this to happen more than it used to, no matter who the coach is. I think the worst thing that could've happened to the program is Saban making it to the playoffs in 2023 with that team and that QB. It was the greatest coaching job of the GOAT's career, and now we're holding the new coach to that same standard? Let's be reasonable here. It's a process, and it takes what it takes. No amount of rushing is going to change that. If we wanna judge DeBoer based on a Saban-like scale, then we should be prepared for 20 years of mediocrity and a revolving door of coaches. Before we even start blaming the coach for anything, we need to get NIL figured out first.

Didn't you already make the same post?

Look, Alabama did not finish the same as Ohio State and Georgia. That's already been addressed.

If they did we wouldn't have concerns.

Instead Alabama got demolished by Georgia. Then demolished by the team that beat Ohio State by 3.

You think scores don't matter for some very odd reason. They do though, they mean everything. They tell you what happened and getting absolutely dismantled is a sign of major issues.

You're acting like Jake Paul came as close to beating Anthony Joshua as Klitschko did.. Nah man, Joshua destroyed Paul and broke his jaw. Klitschko went 11 rounds. It's not the same, it's nowhere near the same.

 

[CrimsonTitles]

Didn't you already make the same post?

Look, Alabama did not finish the same as Ohio State and Georgia. That's already been addressed.

If they did we wouldn't have concerns.

Instead Alabama got demolished by Georgia. Then demolished by the team that beat Ohio State by 3.

You think scores don't matter for some very odd reason. They do though, they mean everything. They tell you what happened and getting absolutely dismantled is a sign of major issues.

You're acting like Jake Paul came as close to beating Anthony Joshua as Klitschko did.. Nah man, Joshua destroyed Paul and broke his jaw. Klitschko went 11 rounds. It's not the same, it's nowhere near the same.

Does it matter what I said earlier? I was responding to that comment how I felt I should respond. If you don't agree with me, fine, but it's really starting to feel like the only posts that are welcome are ones that agree with the negative majority. You don't have to engage with me.
.
I always look at everything from 50,000 feet, because that is the most reasonable way to operate. There are plenty of reasons why things didn't go our way, and most them don't involve bad coaching. Once I run out of reasons, only then can I start blaming the coach. Last year, I gave DeBoer a complete pass because of who the QB was. This year, the problem was injuries, and our gauntlet of a schedule certainly didn't help. But he also made the playoffs this year, so that alone makes the season a success. The goal is to contend for a national title every season, and we did contend, only to end up falling short. The minor details are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that we accomplished some of our goals this season, and that we continue to make progress next season towards the ultimate goal of winning a national title. And btw, we absolutely did finish the same as Georgia and Ohio State. All 3 teams were eliminated in the same round.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

A big part of that is having a weak enough schedule that you can stay healthy for an entire season. Indiana did not have the injury issues that we had to deal with this season. Last I checked, DeBoer made it to the natty in his second season at Washington, so he's capable of doing it, because he's already done it.

Their SOS was not weak.

They were consistently ranked in the 30s

They beat 5 Top 10 teams and two other 9-4 teams.

They ended up 16-0 with a Final SOS of 10th

The narrative that they skated by with a weak schedule is straight up non factual nonsense.

Injury situations are not caused by SOS it’s just pure good fortune or bad fortune.

We didn’t lose to FSU or OU because of SOS or injuries.

It was lack of preparation and playing poorly.

Can’t we just be honest as a fan base and acknowledge we need to improve without just endless excuses?

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

The issue with that is it is basically asserting that all the problems we saw, all of them were basically just the personnel on the offensive line. If you keep the coaches, and you keep the running backs, you're saying the bad running, the bad run blocking all that came down to just the line.

It didn't look to me like that, and this isn't the first time DeBoer has had a really poor run game, but if his solution is to do very little, it just kind of reinforces the notion that it's not a big priority.

Oh, there was more to it............more issues than one, but the line needs addressing along with the rb play

 

[CrimsonTitles]

They were consistently ranked in the 30s

They beat 5 Top 10 teams and two other 9-4 teams.

They ended up 16-0 with a Final SOS of 10th

The narrative that they skated by with a weak schedule is straight up non factual nonsense.

Injury situations are not caused by SOS it’s just pure good fortune or bad fortune.

We didn’t lose to FSU or OU because of SOS or injuries.

It was lack of preparation and playing poorly.

Can’t we just be honest as a fan base and acknowledge we need to improve without just endless excuses?

That final SOS was due to playoff matchups, so that doesn't detract from my point, which is that were able to able to stave off injuries due to an easy regular season schedule. I believe they were like 38 pre playoff, which is very easy compared to the gauntlets of the SEC. The week in, and week out grind of the SEC is the reason we had so many injury issues. Kirby Smart even alluded to that in his post SEC championship game rant. We beat Georgia when we were healthy, and got blown out when we were missing 8 starters. Sounds about right to me.

I'm being very honest. The season was not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. We can just agree to disagree on that, because that is a hill.i am willing to die on. Everyone wants to come up with a bunch of conjecture to discredit our accomplishments, but we still accomplished them. No amount of whataboutisms is going to change that.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

The extension talk quickly went away as soon as Michigan and Penn St hired a coach. Personally, I don't think there is an extension. I saw it on "X" one time but it wasn't from a reputable source. People are happy with an 11-2 regular season and a playoff win. I know I am. But there are things that took the shine off the 11-2 regular season and the playoff win. Getting blown out three times this year on big national games, the staff being incapable of even improving the OL's run blocking and the continued issues of having games where we look completely unprepared. This is the second year in a row that the team ended the season with a downward trajectory, the second season in a row where the team limped through the second half of the season and the second season in a row with four losses. Those things will never be accepted as part of a "good season" at Alabama.

Especially not when they can do better............

 

[CrimsonTitles]

What if the reason there hasn't been a coaching change yet, is because DeBoer has a spoken agreement with Scott Huff to come back after the Rams are done with playoff? Maybe not likely, but you never know. That would be a heck of a coup by DeBoer if he could pull it off. I don't necessarily think we must have a change, but if we could get Huff back, then we gotta do it.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Talent means nothing if it doesn't fit what you want to do. Besides, Gorgia and Ohio State both have comparably talented rosters and finished the same as we did this season. The only thing I care about is contending for a national title most every season, and winning one every 5 years, or so. If there are a few blowouts along the way, then so be it. I think the changing landscape in college football has a lot to do with it, and I think we should expect this to happen more than it used to, no matter who the coach is. I think the worst thing that could've happened to the program is Saban making it to the playoffs in 2023 with that team and that QB. It was the greatest coaching job of the GOAT's career, and now we're holding the new coach to that same standard? Let's be reasonable here. It's a process, and it takes what it takes. No amount of rushing is going to change that. If we wanna judge DeBoer based on a Saban-like scale, then we should be prepared for 20 years of mediocrity and a revolving door of coaches. Before we even start blaming the coach for anything, we need to get NIL figured out first.

Im not sure why you think we finished the same as Ohio St and UGA . They ended the season with only two losses each. We lost double the games they did and got blownout three times to their none.

Either way, youve admitted you view the situation from a 50,000 foot view, and you think thats the best way to approach it. I dont take that approach because i dont think its the best or most accurate way to assess the situation. Details matter to me and give a more accurate indication of the state of the program.

Year three will be a very important year for the future of CKD at Alabama.