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Question: 2009 class size

Re: 2008 class size

I believe so. We can take as many, up to a max of 25, that we need to fill 85 scholarship slots (including those on the roster that are Bryant scholarship recipients).
 
Re: 2008 class size

I think you mean 2009 class. It will not be likely that Bama will award any walk-on underclassmen a scholarship. I wouldn't be surprised to see more defections, injuries, or players giving up football as they see the difficulty of earning playing time as we get better and better talent.

I look for Bama to become a true pro football preparation team, better than Southern Cal or even Miami. Saban is wooing the hearts of parents of top recuits with the appropriate emphasis on education and character development in addition to a great background for preparing players for an NFL career. Not only will families understand this, but NFL teams will show a high regard for UA grads which will contribute to a continued successful recruiting program.
The only missing piece of the puzzle could come as early as this year if Bama can manage to win the west.

Bama should have more spots next season as they are 3 below the maximum at this time. Most think Bama will sign 22 or more. This would mean that approximately 10 will leave the program for some reason other than graduation as we have only 9 seniors on the team. Ten sounds like a lot, but as the program clearly becomes more like an NFL preparatory team, some who see that they don't want to put in the effort to get to the next level may go elsewhere. A few might become disqualified medically. However, fewer and fewer of Saban signees will leave the program.


RTR



RTR
 
Re: 2008 class size

One question: How will this attrition affect APR / RPI? I know we can't continue to have all these student athletes leave the program without graduation and not have some negative scholarship effect. Can someone spread a little knowledge to me on this?:conf2:
 
Re: 2008 class size

numbersman said:
It will not be likely that Bama will award any walk-on underclassmen a scholarship.
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I suspect we'll award at least 2 scholarships to walk-ons for this year as long as there's a clear understanding there's no guarantee those scholarships will be renewed next year.
 
Re: 2008 class size

rtr1973 said:
I suspect we'll award at least 2 scholarships to walk-ons for this year as long as there's a clear understanding there's no guarantee those scholarships will be renewed next year.
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Although scholarships are "annual" agreements, it is extremely rare for a coach to pull an athlete's scholarship once rewarded unless there's a good reason (i.e. academics, legal trouble, not attending workouts, etc). Once CNS offers a former walk-on a scholarship, he's basically rewarding him for his hard work and will be renewing it until the kid graduates.

I think we're sitting at 82 scholarshipped players right now...and if these aren't rewarded to Tiffin and maybe another couple of walk-ons, they will be used to sign a "back-counter" or two who enrolls in Jan. '09. And don't forget Preyear will enroll in January 2009.

Rivals Eligibility Tracker
 
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While some sites are reporting 82 , that would not appear to be an accurate # . I had some doubts about CNS's supposed 2 year policy for K's & P's when I 1st heard about it but , after some checking , it seems to be true . Just copy & use this to subtract from this whenever a player departs .

Offense ......
1 - A.Smith
2 - M.Johnson
3 - Caldwell
4 - M.Davis
5 - D.Davis
6 - Vlachos
7 - Cardwell
8 - Ross
9 - Pharr
10- Love
11- Motley
12- Boswell
13- B.Jones
14- Walker
15- McCall
16- Underwood
17- Dial
18- Smelley
19- J.Jones
20- Hanks
21- McCoy
22- C.Jackson
23- Alexander
24- Scott
25- Stover
26- Maze
27- Gibson
28- Oakley
29- Sikes
30- Wilson
31- McElroy
32- S.Jackson
33- Fanuzzi
34- Grant
35- Coffee
36- Ingram
37- Upchurch
38- Huber
39- Griffin
40- Matchett

Special Teams ....
41- Tiffin
42- Fitzgerald
43- C.Smith

Defense .....
44- Greenwood
45- Washington
46- Deaderick
47- L.Davis
48- Chapman
49- McCollough
50- Dareus
51- Cody
52- Gentry
53- Billingsley
54- Square
55- Talbert
56- Fanney
57- Watkins
58- Upshaw
59- M.Williams
60- Harbin
61- Kirschman
62- Reamer
63- McClain
64- Hightower
65- Anders
66- Higgenbotham
67- Hester
68- C.Williams
69- P.Hall
70- J.Harris
71- C.Jordan
72- Woodall
73- R.Johnson
74- Sharrief
75- Barron
76- Lester
77- K.Jackson
78- Arenas
79- M.Johnson
80- C.Rogers
81- Lawrence
82- R.Green
83- Goode

Not a part of our totals ...
Deaton
King
Neighbors
Lowe - if he even returns .
 
I think we're looking at 21-24 guys in this class. It will be interesting to see how they fit with nine seniors, and only one junior possibly leaving. Of course attrition will happen.
 
LCN said:
While some sites are reporting 82 , that would not appear to be an accurate # . I had some doubts about CNS's supposed 2 year policy for K's & P's when I 1st heard about it but , after some checking , it seems to be true . Just copy & use this to subtract from this whenever a player departs .

Offense ......
1 - A.Smith
2 - M.Johnson
3 - Caldwell
4 - M.Davis
5 - D.Davis
6 - Vlachos
7 - Cardwell
8 - Ross
9 - Pharr
10- Love
11- Motley
12- Boswell
13- B.Jones
14- Walker
15- McCall
16- Underwood
17- Dial
18- Smelley
19- J.Jones
20- Hanks
21- McCoy
22- C.Jackson
23- Alexander
24- Scott
25- Stover
26- Maze
27- Gibson
28- Oakley
29- Sikes
30- Wilson
31- McElroy
32- S.Jackson
33- Fanuzzi
34- Grant
35- Coffee
36- Ingram
37- Upchurch
38- Huber
39- Griffin
40- Matchett

Special Teams ....
41- Tiffin
42- Fitzgerald
43- C.Smith

Defense .....
44- Greenwood
45- Washington
46- Deaderick
47- L.Davis
48- Chapman
49- McCollough
50- Dareus
51- Cody
52- Gentry
53- Billingsley
54- Square
55- Talbert
56- Fanney
57- Watkins
58- Upshaw
59- M.Williams
60- Harbin
61- Kirschman
62- Reamer
63- McClain
64- Hightower
65- Anders
66- Higgenbotham
67- Hester
68- C.Williams
69- P.Hall
70- J.Harris
71- C.Jordan
72- Woodall
73- R.Johnson
74- Sharrief
75- Barron
76- Lester
77- K.Jackson
78- Arenas
79- M.Johnson
80- C.Rogers
81- Lawrence
82- R.Green
83- Goode

Not a part of our totals ...
Deaton
King
Neighbors
Lowe - if he even returns .
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The correct number is 82. BOL has an accurate list on their site. Tiffin and Fitz have not been awarded scholarships at this time. Your list is also missing Peek, who Saban admitted is on scholly. So if you add Peek and subtract Fitz and Tiffin from your list, you have the correct one at 82. If Fits and Tiffin are awarded a scholly, I'm sure they will be told it's a one year deal....because we'll need those spots for an already small 2009 class. Getting a free ride for a year isn't a bad deal though. I'm guessing 20-22....that seems to be the number floating around out there now.
 
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BleedCrimson7 said:
The correct number is 82. BOL has an accurate list on their site. Tiffin and Fitz have not been awarded scholarships at this time. Your list is also missing Peek, who Saban admitted is on scholly. So if you add Peek and subtract Fitz and Tiffin from your list, you have the correct one at 82. If Fits and Tiffin are awarded a scholly, I'm sure they will be told it's a one year deal....because we'll need those spots for an already small 2009 class. Getting a free ride for a year isn't a bad deal though. I'm guessing 20-22....that seems to be the number floating around out there now.
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I was skeptical about the 2 year deal with K's & P's but , I doubt CNS would tell them they were going on scholarship & not follow through . Maybe so but , I'm not the only one here who has had it checked . I guess anything is possible :conf3:
 
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BleedCrimson7 said:
The correct number is 82. BOL has an accurate list on their site. Tiffin and Fitz have not been awarded scholarships at this time. Your list is also missing Peek, who Saban admitted is on scholly. So if you add Peek and subtract Fitz and Tiffin from your list, you have the correct one at 82. If Fits and Tiffin are awarded a scholly, I'm sure they will be told it's a one year deal....because we'll need those spots for an already small 2009 class. Getting a free ride for a year isn't a bad deal though. I'm guessing 20-22....that seems to be the number floating around out there now.
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Once again, that won't happen. See my post above. If he gives them a schalorship, he will not pull it next year. That does not happen much at all in major college programs. He will not give them a scholarship this year if he doesn't plan on awarding it to them for the rest of their careers.
 
Guys , I bet there's one thing we can sure agree on - never , ever have our #'s been anywhere near as hard to keep track of as they have been over the past 20 or so months :)
 
LCN said:
I was skeptical about the 2 year deal with K's & P's but , I doubt CNS would tell them they were going on scholarship & not follow through . Maybe so but , I'm not the only one here who has had it checked . I guess anything is possible :conf3:
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We'll I haven't seen or heard anything that said they were placed on scholly for even this year. I'm just assuming they may since we have extra spots. I also don't think it would be a big issue if Saban told them upfront they have a little extra room, so they would get a free ride this year, but that there likely wouldn't be extra room next year. I certainly wouldn't complain. That's basically like Saban giving them a check for 10K+ for tutition/room and board. I wouldn't complain a bit.
 
crimson_blood said:
Once again, that won't happen. See my post above. If he gives them a schalorship, he will not pull it next year. That does not happen much at all in major college programs. He will not give them a scholarship this year if he doesn't plan on awarding it to them for the rest of their careers.
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Not necessarily true. Shollys are one year deals. Now if we were talking about a kid we brought in on a scholly, you'd be right. But a walk-on who was expecting to pay their own way, a one year free pass would be welcomed. In your view it would be better for a walk-on to not get a free ride their junior year if they couldn't have a free ride for both their junior and senior years. I don't think that makes sense, and I'm betting they would agree that getting a one year ride beats getting no help at all.
 
BleedCrimson7 said:
Not necessarily true. Shollys are one year deals. Now if we were talking about a kid we brought in on a scholly, you'd be right. But a walk-on who was expecting to pay their own way, a one year free pass would be welcomed. In your view it would be better for a walk-on to not get a free ride their junior year if they couldn't have a free ride for both their junior and senior years. I don't think that makes sense, and I'm betting they would agree that getting a one year ride beats getting no help at all.
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I’m not going to try to get in a peeing contest here…I’m just trying to tell you how things are normally done. I am fully aware that scholarships are technically one year, renewable agreements. What I’m telling you is that it is NOT customary for a head coach to offer a kid a scholarship one year and then pull it the next year. It is understood once you are offered a scholarship that if you hold up your end of the bargain and continue doing your job, your scholarship will be renewed the next year.

I certainly understand your point that Tiffin or others would be willing to let CNS give him a scholarship for one year instead of paying his own way. I’m just telling you that it is status quo that once you “earn” a scholarship, it’s not rescinded the next year to clear up space for others.

You are also not taking into consideration that the coaching staff will probably take a couple of “back-counters” for guys that will enroll in January 2008. I know Preyear will be one of the ones we’ll have to “save a space” for with regard to scholarships…and there will probably be a couple of signees that will graduate early and enroll in Jan. 08.
 
crimson_blood said:
I’m not going to try to get in a peeing contest here…I’m just trying to tell you how things are normally done. I am fully aware that scholarships are technically one year, renewable agreements. What I’m telling you is that it is NOT customary for a head coach to offer a kid a scholarship one year and then pull it the next year. It is understood once you are offered a scholarship that if you hold up your end of the bargain and continue doing your job, your scholarship will be renewed the next year.

I certainly understand your point that Tiffin or others would be willing to let CNS give him a scholarship for one year instead of paying his own way. I’m just telling you that it is status quo that once you “earn” a scholarship, it’s not rescinded the next year to clear up space for others.

You are also not taking into consideration that the coaching staff will probably take a couple of “back-counters” for guys that will enroll in January 2008. I know Preyear will be one of the ones we’ll have to “save a space” for with regard to scholarships…and there will probably be a couple of signees that will graduate early and enroll in Jan. 08.
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Well, if we have learned anything about Saban thus far, it's that he really doesn't give a flip about the "status quo". He marches to the beat of his own drummer, and does what's best for Bama. What I do know, is that with such a small class in 2009, no way he gives up two of those valuable spots to guys we already have on the team, especially not to a punter who's been an underachiever at best thus far in his career. Like I said, giving them a free ride for one year while we have the space makes the most sense. We'll see how it shakes out in the coming months.

As far as me not taking back-counters into consideration....I'm not following you there. Preyear and one of the Murphy/Warmack combo will likely take those two spots. Even then our 2009 class is still small numbers wise, which just further denotes the importance of not having two walk-on kickers taking up two of those very limited spots in 2009. Now if we have alot of attrition in the spring and fall next year as we did this year, and we end up under the 85 limit again....then sure, I'd imagine Tiffin and Fitz would get a free ride yet again. But again, I'm sure they know that's not a guarantee at this point, and is actually unlikely.
 
BleedCrimson7 said:
What I do know, is that with such a small class in 2009, no way he gives up two of those valuable spots to guys we already have on the team, especially not to a punter who's been an underachiever at best thus far in his career.

...which just further denotes the importance of not having two walk-on kickers taking up two of those very limited spots in 2009
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Agreed. I’m not saying he’s going to award a scholarship to anyone else, especially any kickers, this year. I actually agree with you in that it probably wouldn’t be best to award another scholarship to a kicker or a punter right now.

What I’m saying is that if he does offer them a scholarship this year, you can count on them getting a scholarship again next year. He will not award a scholarship one year and then take it away the next, unless he has a valid reason (poor grades, behavior problems, etc).



BleedCrimson7 said:
Like I said, giving them a free ride for one year while we have the space makes the most sense. As far as me not taking back-counters into consideration....I'm not following you there. We'll see how it shakes out in the coming months.
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If you give scholarships to other players now because you "have the space," you don't have room for the "back-counters" such as Warmack. If you award 2-3 kickers/other players a scholarship now and take up that space, you will not have room for both Warmack or Preyear. We can't take up those scholarship spots now because we need spots for Preyear and any "back-counters" to enroll early.
 
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crimson_blood said:
Agreed. I’m not saying he’s going to award a scholarship to anyone else, especially any kickers, this year. I actually agree with you in that it probably wouldn’t be best to award another scholarship to a kicker or a punter right now.

What I’m saying is that if he does offer them a scholarship this year, you can count on them getting a scholarship again next year. He will not award a scholarship one year and then take it away the next, unless he has a valid reason (poor grades, behavior problems, etc).

If you give scholarships to other players now because you "have the space," you don't have room for the "back-counters" such as Warmack. If you award 2-3 kickers/other players a scholarship now and take up that space, you will not have room for both Warmack or Preyear. We can't take up those scholarship spots now because we need spots for Preyear and any "back-counters" to enroll early.
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I hear ya. I just disagree. I don't think if he puts the kickers on scholly this year, we can "count on" them being on scholly next year. I realize that is how it normally works, I just don't think if he chooses to do that, Saban will feel like he has to keep them on scholly the next year when he needs those spots for new recruits. And I'm sure that would be explained upfront, so there would be no surprises or hurt feelings...just gratitude for the one year shcolly.

The two back-counters go towards the 25 limit of the 2008 class. They only count towards the 85 limit once they go on scholly. Once our current 9 seniors finish their careers in Dec/Jan...they are off the 85 limit, from what I understand...at which time, there would be plenty of room for the two back-counters to come in and be under the 85 limit. I'm not sure about this...and if you're right...there's probably no way Saban puts both kickers on scholarship sacrificing his room for the two back-counters. I suppose since we're at 82 right now, he could put Tiffin on scholly for this year, and still have room for the two back-counters. To be honest, Fitz hasn't done anything to warrant a scholly at this point IMO.
 
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