I find most of the crowd arguing for not dropping the bomb are folks that would never have had to hit the beaches on Honshu and Kyushu.
75th anniversary of D-Day...
- Thread starter crimsonaudio
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Likely after we had 'softened up the southern defenses" with 7-15 more atomic bombs, as outlined as a potential starting point before X-day in the planned Operation Downfall. Of course, invading US forces would have been allowed to wait "at least 48 hours" before landing...
Colonel Lyle E. Seeman reported that at least seven Fat Man-type plutonium implosion bombs would be available by X-Day, which could be dropped on defending forces. Seeman advised that American troops not enter an area hit by a bomb for "at least 48 hours"; the risk of nuclear fallout was not well understood, and such a short amount of time after detonation would have resulted in substantial radiation exposure for the American troops.
Ken Nichols, the District Engineer of the Manhattan Engineer District, wrote that at the beginning of August 1945, "[p]lanning for the invasion of the main Japanese home islands had reached its final stages, and if the landings actually took place, we might supply about fifteen atomic bombs to support the troops." An air burst 1,800–2,000 ft (550–610 m) above the ground had been chosen for the (Hiroshima) bomb to achieve maximum blast effects, and to minimize residual radiation on the ground as it was hoped that American troops would soon occupy the city.
I may never have been born had the US not dropped the A-bombs on Japan. The same is true for any of us who had parents in the service at the end of the war. Truman made the only choice he could make. Where they dropped the bombs could be debated.
That's expressed in such a Truman-like manner, it probably stuck in my mind. I also remember the 2 million max estimate. If the country hadn't been softened up by the emperor's declaration, there's no telling what a "werewolf" movement would have cost in an occupation with a major resistance. When one thinks of the Japanese holdouts in foreign lands, it's not hard to extrapolate that to the home islands...
Not D-Day but I just finished a fantastic first person Pearl Harbor survivor account by Donald Stratton : "All the Gallant Men" who was on the USS Arizona, survived burns all over his body, re-entered the Navy after recovering and fought at Okinawa. One of the very few who was there on the first and last major WWII battle. He died 6 weeks ago at the age of 97 and now there are only 2 Arizona survivors remaining. The bravery and gallantry of the Greatest Generation continues to astound and humble me.
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I read Band of Brothers a while back but never had HBO to watch the mini series. Well, low and behold, it’s on Amazon Prime! Just finished the first two episodes and it’s very well done. The parachute drop was intense. I can’t imagine the feeling of sheer terror and helplessness those guys felt with that flak and MG gun fire reigning in.
BoB is one of the greatest WWII series ever produced. Really top notch story telling and production throughout.
April 8, 1945: On the western front, a British SAS brigade is dropped into eastern Netherlands as an advance force for Canadian units moving north. meanwhile, British 2nd Army captures Hildesheim in central Germany and continues pushing toward Bremen. Canadian 1st Army captures Zutphen and attacks toward Oldenburg and Deventer. US 9th Army attacks toward Hannover and further reduces the Ruhr pocket while US 1st Army continues attacking and reducing the Ruhr pocket while also pushing toward Northeim and Duderstadt. US 3rd Army advances toward Erfurt and Arnstadt. US 7th Army attacking around Schweinfurt and French 1st Army captures Pforzheim.
Serving as a Staff Sergeant in Company F, 253rd Infantry Regiment, 63rd Infantry Division near Stein-am-Kocher, Germany, John R. Crews single-handedly destroyed two German emplacements. His actions earn him the Medal Of Honor, here is his citation:
“He displayed conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty on 8 April 1945 near Lobenbacherhof, Germany. As his company was advancing toward the village under heavy fire, an enemy machinegun and automatic rifle with rifle support opened upon it from a hill on the right flank. Seeing that his platoon leader had been wounded by their fire, S/Sgt. Crews, acting on his own initiative, rushed the strongpoint with 2 men of his platoon. Despite the fact that 1 of these men was killed and the other was badly wounded, he continued his advance up the hill in the face of terrific enemy fire. Storming the well-dug-in position single-handedly, he killed 2 of the crew of the machinegun at pointblank range with his M 1 rifle and wrested the gun from the hands of the German whom he had already wounded. He then with his rifle charged the strongly emplaced automatic rifle. Although badly wounded in the thigh by crossfire from the remaining enemy, he kept on and silenced the entire position with his accurate and deadly rifle fire. His actions so unnerved the remaining enemy soldiers that 7 of them surrendered and the others fled. His heroism caused the enemy to concentrate on him and permitted the company to move forward into the village.â€Â
Crews died at age 76 and was buried in Resthaven Gardens Cemetery, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
Over Germany, US 8th Air Force attacks multiple targets with 1,103 bombers (9 lost) supported by 763 fighters (1 lost). US 15th Air Force attacks transportation targets. RAF Bomber Command sends 440 aircraft to attack Hamburg overnight, sinking nine U-boats. RAF Bomber Command sends 242 aircraft to attack Lutzkendorf overnight, 22 aircraft to attack Travemunde overnight, 71 aircraft to attack Dessau overnight, and 28 aircraft to attack Berlin overnight.
To the east, Defensive forts number 5 and 8 at Königsberg surrender to Soviet forces as the Soviet 3rd Belorussian Front begins to break through the defenses. German forces attempt another counterattack, but it fails at the face of Soviet air superiority as Soviet aircraft dropp 1,500 tons of bombs on Königsberg. In Austria, the Soviet forces push on west of Vienna despite German counter-attacks. There is heavy fighting in the Austrian capital. Soviet troops gain control of the main railway station in Vienna, Ostmark, Germany and surround the city. Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front continues its advance into northern Czechoslovakia.
In the Baltic Sea, German vessels Franken, Hans Albrecht Wedel, and sub chaser UJ-301 are all sunk by Soviet aircraft during evacuation operations.
In Italy, British troops attack the area between the southern tip of Lake Comacchio and the Fossa di Navigazione, known as 'The Wedge'. US 12th Air Force aircraft attack transportation lines and other targets in the Po valley and throughout northern Italy, including Brenner Pass area while US 15th Air Force attacks a dam, rail yards, and rail lines around Brenner Pass with more than 500 bombers.
In northern Italy, British Army SAS Major Anders Lassen and 19 men were tasked with creating a diversion at Lake Comacchio. The Dane, who joined the British forces after the fall of Denmark and had already won the Military Medal three times in commando operations, destroyed three enemy strong-points before being fatally wounded. As his men withdrew, he refused aid, knowing that he would only slow them down and endanger their escape. His body was later found and buried by partisans. The fighting Dane was awarded a posthumous Victoria Cross, the only non-British Commonwealth soldier to win the medal during the war.
Pictured: Men of the 16th Infantry Regiment, US 1st Infantry Division crossing the Weser River to attack Fürstenberg, Germany, April 8, 1945.; Allied POWS cheer as an American tank breaks through the barbed wire surrounding the POW camp in Hammelburg, Germany on April 8, 1945.; Medal Of Honor recipient John Crews; B-17G Flying Fortress 'Wee-Willie' of 322nd Bomber Squadron of USAAF 91st Bomber Group losing a wing from flak fire over Stendal, Germany, April 8, 1945.; 8 were killed, pilot survived; SAS VC recipient Anders Lassen.
Serving as a Staff Sergeant in Company F, 253rd Infantry Regiment, 63rd Infantry Division near Stein-am-Kocher, Germany, John R. Crews single-handedly destroyed two German emplacements. His actions earn him the Medal Of Honor, here is his citation:
“He displayed conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty on 8 April 1945 near Lobenbacherhof, Germany. As his company was advancing toward the village under heavy fire, an enemy machinegun and automatic rifle with rifle support opened upon it from a hill on the right flank. Seeing that his platoon leader had been wounded by their fire, S/Sgt. Crews, acting on his own initiative, rushed the strongpoint with 2 men of his platoon. Despite the fact that 1 of these men was killed and the other was badly wounded, he continued his advance up the hill in the face of terrific enemy fire. Storming the well-dug-in position single-handedly, he killed 2 of the crew of the machinegun at pointblank range with his M 1 rifle and wrested the gun from the hands of the German whom he had already wounded. He then with his rifle charged the strongly emplaced automatic rifle. Although badly wounded in the thigh by crossfire from the remaining enemy, he kept on and silenced the entire position with his accurate and deadly rifle fire. His actions so unnerved the remaining enemy soldiers that 7 of them surrendered and the others fled. His heroism caused the enemy to concentrate on him and permitted the company to move forward into the village.â€Â
Crews died at age 76 and was buried in Resthaven Gardens Cemetery, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
Over Germany, US 8th Air Force attacks multiple targets with 1,103 bombers (9 lost) supported by 763 fighters (1 lost). US 15th Air Force attacks transportation targets. RAF Bomber Command sends 440 aircraft to attack Hamburg overnight, sinking nine U-boats. RAF Bomber Command sends 242 aircraft to attack Lutzkendorf overnight, 22 aircraft to attack Travemunde overnight, 71 aircraft to attack Dessau overnight, and 28 aircraft to attack Berlin overnight.
To the east, Defensive forts number 5 and 8 at Königsberg surrender to Soviet forces as the Soviet 3rd Belorussian Front begins to break through the defenses. German forces attempt another counterattack, but it fails at the face of Soviet air superiority as Soviet aircraft dropp 1,500 tons of bombs on Königsberg. In Austria, the Soviet forces push on west of Vienna despite German counter-attacks. There is heavy fighting in the Austrian capital. Soviet troops gain control of the main railway station in Vienna, Ostmark, Germany and surround the city. Soviet 2nd Ukrainian Front continues its advance into northern Czechoslovakia.
In the Baltic Sea, German vessels Franken, Hans Albrecht Wedel, and sub chaser UJ-301 are all sunk by Soviet aircraft during evacuation operations.
In Italy, British troops attack the area between the southern tip of Lake Comacchio and the Fossa di Navigazione, known as 'The Wedge'. US 12th Air Force aircraft attack transportation lines and other targets in the Po valley and throughout northern Italy, including Brenner Pass area while US 15th Air Force attacks a dam, rail yards, and rail lines around Brenner Pass with more than 500 bombers.
In northern Italy, British Army SAS Major Anders Lassen and 19 men were tasked with creating a diversion at Lake Comacchio. The Dane, who joined the British forces after the fall of Denmark and had already won the Military Medal three times in commando operations, destroyed three enemy strong-points before being fatally wounded. As his men withdrew, he refused aid, knowing that he would only slow them down and endanger their escape. His body was later found and buried by partisans. The fighting Dane was awarded a posthumous Victoria Cross, the only non-British Commonwealth soldier to win the medal during the war.
Pictured: Men of the 16th Infantry Regiment, US 1st Infantry Division crossing the Weser River to attack Fürstenberg, Germany, April 8, 1945.; Allied POWS cheer as an American tank breaks through the barbed wire surrounding the POW camp in Hammelburg, Germany on April 8, 1945.; Medal Of Honor recipient John Crews; B-17G Flying Fortress 'Wee-Willie' of 322nd Bomber Squadron of USAAF 91st Bomber Group losing a wing from flak fire over Stendal, Germany, April 8, 1945.; 8 were killed, pilot survived; SAS VC recipient Anders Lassen.
One of my few beefs with BoB.
On the night of D-1 to D-Day, when the paras dropped, the Allies lost 21 C-47 aircraft total, over two U.S. airborne divisions (out of 821 C-47s total, or 2.5%). Looking at BoB's one would have the impression that half the transport airplanes were shot down. There were C-47s going down all over that scene.
From Warren's Airborne Operations in World War II, European Theater, p. 59.
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Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's hard to believe anybody could survive that.
If they could bail out, but getting out of the aircraft while it is flopping around like that is no guarantee. Belly ball turret gunner, probably rode that one in.
Another reason to throttle back the strat bombing by this point.
Also great is The Pacific by Speilberg/Hanks. Much of the source material comes from friends Eugene Sledge and Sydney Phillips, both from Mobile. Sledge wrote "With the Old Breed" which is one of the very best first-person accounts of war ever written from a foot-soldier's perspective . You actually feel like you're there with him when reading and the series is really well done and honest to the integrity of the book.
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Completely agree with your on that. I had previously read so many accounts of the D Day jumps and had never come away believing that the flack encountered was nearly as much as that portrayed on BOB. Without doubt it remains one of the most daring feat of arms in history.
My brother said that the pilot rarely made it out. Most of them tried to control the plane as long as possible so the other crew members could exit. Of course, there is no controlling a plane missing a wing. I wondered if perhaps the pilot were thrown free...
I downloaded this on Kindle after reading the LOOK INSIDE and the first review. His account of FDR's speech the day after Pearl Harbor sucked me right in.
Thanks for sharing.
More info on the Willie Gee (with more photos of the explosion) here: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/8-april-1945/
I would think that, as soon as the port wing came off, that plane would yaw to the left and roll to the left uncontrollably. God help the men inside that plane trying to get out of that plane.
In fact, I am not sure how the plane was photographed in that configuration unless it has rolled one complete revolution and yawed 360 degrees by the time the photographer got his camera ready.
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