Ah, Florida - words fail me II

[Bazza]

Paying taxes ought to be optional too.

Death and taxes......right?

I'm not anti-government - I just want to have choices.

For example......while I still had a mortgage I was forced to carry home owner insurance - plus wind storm which was additional $.

In all those years I never had a claim at my place.

The first thing I did when I paid my mortgage off was to go to self-insured. That will be 11 years ago this December.

Meanwhile the homeowner insurance industry has become ridiculous here. And I saved enough money to re-roof my house with metal.

It's going to be different for everyone.

 

[JDCrimson]

I think we should also ban homogenized milk as well. Its better for you in its raw form.

Paying taxes ought to be optional too.

 

[Huckleberry]

Meanwhile the homeowner insurance industry has become ridiculous here.

I agree 100%. I wish some folks would make a concerted and bipartisan effort to do something about it. Unfortunately, that's not at all likely.

 

[Bazza]

I'm not jthomas, but I'd like to respond.

Please know that I appreciate the message here. The "greater good" matters to us, but it doesn't to an increasing number of people - people who have shown a propensity to disbelieve anything that goes against their contrived mindset. They can't be reasoned with, something which I think you've recognized in suggesting they be directly financially rewarded for simply doing what's right.

Is research a good thing? Certainly, but too many people choose to believe their comfortable echo chamber rather than the words of experts. If my doctor tells me to do something regarding my health (or that of someone I love), you can bet I'm going to take her advice seriously. If I have questions, I'll ask, but I'll go with her recommendation a thousand times over some internet science denier, loony conspiracy theorist, or narcissistic political opportunist.

Childhood vaccinations are proven safe, effective, and of great importance for the health and benefit of our society. There is simply no reason (other than rare medical conditions) not to have children receive the vaccines mandated in every state. Any "research" to the contrary should be dismissed out of hand. Don't want the covid vaccine? Fine. It's a different situation now than four or five years ago. Don't want to vaccinate your kids against well-known deadly and easily communicable viruses? Then they can't attend public school. Not because their rights (or those of a parent) don't matter, but because, in this case, the benefit to society matters more.

I can't think of one company that forces it's customers to purchase their products.

Can you?

You can continue to advocate for forcing stuff.....making up rules to force people to do things.

Rules and policies.......courts.......all that good stuff.

Consternation, confusion, and anxiety.

Go for it.

Or consider a different tact.

 

[Huckleberry]

I can't think of one company that forces it's customers to purchase their products.

Can you?

You can continue to advocate for forcing stuff.....making up rules to force people to do things.

Rules and policies.......courts.......all that good stuff.

Consternation, confusion, and anxiety.

Go for it.

Or consider a different tact.

Sure: finance a house, you buy insurance. Want to travel internationally, you need a passport. Send your kids to public school, they get vaccinated. It's not about control, it's about protection — financial, national, and public health.

Public health mandates aren’t about ‘selling products’ — they’re about keeping selfish and stupid decisions from putting the rest of us at risk. Florida stripping away vaccine requirements isn’t freedom. It’s a path to needless outbreaks and dead children in the name of faux liberty. Call it what it is: reckless, shortsighted, and deadly.

 

[crimsonaudio]

There's no need for some "argument to be made" about vaccines saving lives. It's incontrovertible fact. When the decades of unquestionable data and scientific proof regarding the efficacy and societal benefit of vaccines aren't enough, the inevitable conclusion is that the truth doesn't matter. If saving the lives of children (and many, many others) isn't enough of a reason for some folks, that speaks pretty loudly about their priorities as well as their concern for their fellow countrymen. Bribe/reward these people of little conscience and even less moral character? No thanks.

As someone who had a child that had a severe reaction to normal vaccinations as a newborn, I understand the reticence among some folks to 'doing their duty'.

We're not anti-vax, but our first child had life-threatening responses to the vax standards, so we chose to space the vaccinations out as our other kids got older in order to mitigate the potential responses.

I suspect most every parent is like me - I'm 100% unwilling to potentially kill my kid in order to potentially save someone else.

I'm on the fence regarding mandates - I value individual choice, and no one should be forced to sacrifice their child for the 'good of society', but I don't want to be a vector of death for others.

IOW, this isn't the black-and-white issue some of you act like.

 

[92tide]

Call it what it is: reckless, shortsighted, and deadly.

unfortunately, that sells to a lot of people

 

[92tide]

As someone who had a child that had a severe reaction to normal vaccinations as a newborn, I understand the reticence among some folks to 'doing their duty'.

We're not anti-vax, but our first child had life-threatening responses to the vax standards, so we chose to space the vaccinations out as our other kids got older in order to mitigate the potential responses.

I suspect most every parent is like me - I'm 100% unwilling to potentially kill my kid in order to potentially save someone else.

I'm on the fence regarding mandates - I value individual choice, and no one should be forced to sacrifice their child for the 'good of society', but I don't want to be a vector of death for others.

IOW, this isn't the black-and-white issue some of you act like.

sorry y'all had to deal with that. there are children and others who for various reasons can't get vaccines. that is one really important reason for the rest of us to vaccinate.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I think we should also ban homogenized milk as well. Its better for you in its raw form.

Actually, this is a straw man - the equivalent would be removing laws banning raw milk.

The reality is at some point we're arguing about laws that allow the stupid among us to reproduce. I know this is an ugly statement, but it's true.

 

[crimsonaudio]

sorry y'all had to deal with that. there are children and others who for various reasons can't get vaccines. that is one really important reason for the rest of us to vaccinate.

Thank you.

But as I read this I think - so I should sacrifice my child for those that cannot be vaccinated?

Surely you don't mean that...

 

[JDCrimson]

No, I think what he is saying is those that have the capacity shall help those who cannot and therefore should not.

Thank you.

But as I read this I think - so I should sacrifice my child for those that cannot be vaccinated?

Surely you don't mean that...

 

[JDCrimson]

Stupid is a relative term. If you advance this theory, that the stupid should not be allowed to reproduce at some point you will find yourself in that profile...

Actually, this is a straw man - the equivalent would be removing laws banning raw milk.

The reality is at some point we're arguing about laws that allow the stupid among us to reproduce. I know this is an ugly statement, but it's true.

 

[crimsonaudio]

No, I think what he is saying is those that have the capacity shall help those who cannot and therefore should not.

And those of us who can, do.

But if waiting to give our further children the MMR endangered other people, so be it. I'm not risking my kids for someone else.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Stupid is a relative term. If you advance this theory, that the stupid should not be allowed to reproduce at some point you will find yourself in that profile...

We waste more money, time, and effort to protect the stupid from themselves than any society in history.

I don't think we need to remove the warnings. Period. But I've lived for three decades in a city where protecting the average IQ simply meant literal constant devolvement.

That is reality.

 

[Bazza]

Sure: finance a house, you buy insurance. Want to travel internationally, you need a passport. Send your kids to public school, they get vaccinated. -snip-

None of those are examples of being forced to buy a product a company sells.

All of that stuff is mandated by the government.

The government is not a company.

It's the government.

See what I mean?

 

[Huckleberry]

But if waiting to give our further children the MMR endangered other people, so be it. I'm not risking my kids for someone else.

I’m truly sorry your family went through such a difficult experience. I can only imagine how painful and frightening that must have been, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

No reasonable person could fault you for waiting after that. Your caution absolutely made sense in that situation. But for the vast majority of infants, the numbers tell a different story. The best data I’ve found put the risk of a severe adverse vaccine reaction at about 1.3 cases per million doses (and I’d welcome correction if I’m mistaken).

Few issues are purely black and white, but childhood vaccination comes close. Measles kills about 2 out of every 1,000 kids who catch it, and mumps about 2 out of every 10,000 — with other serious complications more common still.

So while there is a non-zero risk from vaccines, the risk from the diseases themselves is far, far greater. Childhood vaccinations make sense for the child and community.

 

[Huckleberry]

None of those are examples of being forced to buy a product a company sells.

All of that stuff is mandated by the government.

The government is not a company.

It's the government.

See what I mean?

Hmmm. The government doesn't usually require you to purchase homeowner's insurance (unless it backed the loan), though it's certainly involved in passports and childhood vaccinations. In any case, I don't care what businesses do.

Why are we discussing that regarding childhood vaccinations anyway? It's not a product. It's a public health policy that saves countless lives and avoids untold misery. Are you saying that the government needs to justify its actions to every group of naysayers, even those whose rationale for disagreement is patently unfounded and markedly dangerous?

There is more than enough evidence to convince any rational person that childhood vaccinations should be mandatory for almost every child. Anti-vaxxers willingly decide to ignore this, instead choosing to follow demonstrably delusional and fraudulent claims. No amount of advertising or arguing is going to change their minds.

 

[92tide]

Thank you.

But as I read this I think - so I should sacrifice my child for those that cannot be vaccinated?

Surely you don't mean that...

no, i didn't. not even close.

Herd immunity and COVID-19: What you need to know

Get the facts about coronavirus and herd immunity.

www.mayoclinic.org

Herd immunity is important because it defines when a whole community is protected. That includes people who haven't caught the disease, people who had the illness and recovered, and people who got a vaccine. It also includes people who can't get a vaccine.

 

[Bamaro]

Death and taxes......right?

I'm not anti-government - I just want to have choices.

For example......while I still had a mortgage I was forced to carry home owner insurance - plus wind storm which was additional $.

In all those years I never had a claim at my place.

The first thing I did when I paid my mortgage off was to go to self-insured. That will be 11 years ago this December.

Meanwhile the homeowner insurance industry has become ridiculous here. And I saved enough money to re-roof my house with metal.

It's going to be different for everyone.

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make by the bolded part but that is the basis of a secured loan which is what a mortgage is.

 

[75thru79]

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make by the bolded part but that is the basis of a secured loan which is what a mortgage is.

Actually the meaning of "secured" does not mean "covered by insurance". Secured means the loan is secured by some sort of collateral, in this case your house. As part of the mortgage agreement you sign at closing you agree to insure your house to protect the collateral. There is no government requirement that you buy insurance. It is a private agreement between you and the lender.