Alabama QB competition article

The first team defense had a pretty good pass rush, and A-Day generally isn't well suited for dual-threat quarterbacks anyway (Blake Sims had some horrible A-Day games). Having said that, Hurts looked worse than last year to me, at least when you include the first half. I still think there's a psychological component, the first half he just looked out of sorts. The second half, I think we saw what we're accustomed to with Hurts. He moved the ball fairly well, scrambled well, threw some good underneath passes and struggled with downfield passing. I think he'd have had a shot at winning if he's played both halves like the second half, but he played the first half like the Georgia game, and I think he can do better than that if his mind is in the right place.

The problem is, he's shown no signs of the type of leap forward he'd have to make to have a legitimate shot at starting. Once he let Tua pass him, he had catching up to do and I don't see how he can do it anytime soon. I still think the best long term move for him is to try to figure out how he can use his three years of remaining eligibility at the same place, and work on his issues. He's still a great talent, he still moved the ball against Alabama's first team defense once he got out of his funk, but he's got things to work on and I think that will take time.

Mac looked promising, but it's important to remember that was against the second team defense. While he might have also leaped Hurts as a passer, I don't think he's got any shot at starting, or even serious minutes as long as Hurts and Tua are around and healthy.
 
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The problem is, he's shown no signs of the type of leap forward he'd have to make to have a legitimate shot at starting. Once he let Tua pass him, he had catching up to do and I don't see how he can do it anytime soon. I still think the best long term move for him is to try to figure out how he can use his three years of remaining eligibility at the same place, and work on his issues. He's still a great talent, he still moved the ball against Alabama's first team defense, which is no small accomplishment, but he's got things to work on and I think that will take time.

Mac looked promising, but it's important to remember that was against the second team defense. While he might have also leaped Hurts as a passer, I don't think he's got any shot at starting, or even serious minutes as long as Hurts and Tua are around and healthy.
I agree Jalen is a talented football player but he's just not a very good passing QB. He still can't push the ball down field.

Most of his success was dink and dunk stuff but as usual when it gets to critical 3rd downs the offense can't convert hence them only scoring 4 FG's and ZERO TD's with Jalen running things.....and well... just plain running instead of passing.

Mac on the other hand looked in command and attacked the Defense. He stood in that pocket and fired off passes that lead his WR's and TE's into yards after the catch. He throws people open like Tua. He also lead 3 TD drives and CNS named him Co-MVP of the game.

Now I agree Mac won't start this year or anything but he's already passed Jalen as a QB imho. Did you read/hear what CNS said live today around a hot mic?

I think no matter how things go that Tua will be the starter and Mac the backup going forward.
 
Looked from my vantage point like Jalen really struggled. All things considered, I still think he’s in a deep hole in progressing enough to retain the starting qb position—and I think he and his family have to know it.
 
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I don’t follow recruiting, so were these glaring holes in Jalen’s passing game evident before he signed with us? Or did he sling it around in high school?
 
I wonder, if Hurts was playing 25 years ago at Nebraska, would he beat out Tommie Frazier. It seems like his playing style mimics his.
 
I realize Hurts was playing against what seems like a potentially dominant front seven and a young but promising starting secondary. Still, he had an awful game despite having some of the competitive pressure being eased off due to Tua's hand injury. A-Days are funny though...never would've assumed Sims would flourish after the A-Day game in 2014. I doubt we see a similar metamorphosis though. I think it is just a fact that Hurts lacks confidence in his arm and can't pull the trigger on throws when it is open because of his lack of confidence. He's probably our third best passer at quarterback at this juncture. I'm not hoping for the Mac Jones Era but with the right playcalling mix and a dominant defense would probably work with him at some point in his college career here if it came to it. QBs who thrive as runners that win their fair share against quality competition have one thing they do well in the passing game. Watson had great pocket awareness and a very composed manner with extending plays to throw. Vick had a live arm that could kill you if your defenders were all eyes on Vick and lost a guy deep down field. Mariota was a master of the play action fake with the quick, precise throws. Almost like a WCO QB but with great athleticism. What does Hurts do well in the passing game? It is the start of his third season and he can't always deliver a good throw into the flat.
 
I wonder, if Hurts was playing 25 years ago at Nebraska, would he beat out Tommie Frazier. It seems like his playing style mimics his.

I'm really not sure who to compare him to?

He kind of reminds me of a less shifty Brad Smith from Mizzou from 2002-2005.... but with a stronger arm. But he plays like Smith by instinctively being a run 1st QB who CAN throw it some.

Smith would time after time catch shotgun snaps and in less than 2-3 seconds bail and take off running and BIG12 defenses couldn't stop him anyway. He hardly ever just stood still in the pocket though.

Jalen throws it a bit more but he still plays with that type of style. Won't stand in the pocket when pressure happens and just takes off running.

How many times can you remember him standing there in the pocket and taking a chin shot to throw a ball to his WR? I can remember maybe 1-2 times he's not taken off running.

Oh and back to Brad Smith his Career yards were 8,644 yards passing and 4,193 yards rushing (12,837 Total). If Jalen also played 4 years his stats project to 9,600 passing and 3,600 yards rushing (13,200 Total)

Same rough ballpark numbers wise but also remember that Brad Smith played with a MUCH worse supporting cast during his career.

So....What happened to Brad Smith after college?....

He switched positions and his NFL Career was at WR because he wasn't a pocket passer.... he was an escape artist who could throw it some.

What will Jalen do?? He's obviously extremely talented as just a football player but he's not a Pocket Passing QB and it looks like he never will be.

I wish he would at least entertain the thought of trying another position. Any NFL future won't be at QB.
 
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I feel sorry for Jalen Hurts.
His dad made it even tougher on him.
But Hurts was great when there were no expectations on him, and he was not predictable to the opponent yet.
Hurts is still great, but there now appears to be one, and maybe two quarterbacks better than him. Mac appears to be a Cross between AJ and that kid from Georgia in The NCG. Additionally, Good probability that Tus has that strong confident personality that inadvertently puts him ahead of Jalen when they hang out. Jalen seems to be at his best when he’s laid back (like Kiffin). Don’t fault them, it’s who they are, and it works for them. Jalen should stay this year, spilt time but not game momentum with Tua. Leave if it doesn’t work out at the end of the year, via grad transfer. No team is going to give Jalen much more practice snaps and any live game action, than where he is at, if he’s transferring /redshirting. Hopefully the Hurt’ family uses common sense, and not exhilarated emotion, in their career choices. Why transfer before the end of the year, if Jalen can play a lot this year, and learn from the best. Hopefully the Hurts family uses their calm heads and do what is best for the family and Jalen’s career, which is another year with the tide. Do you realize what an unbelievable streak that Bama has had without significant QB injures!? Especially in the SEC with all the ferocious DLs and LBs? Even a hot craps table eventually gets cold. The #2 QB will play a lot, most likely.
Glad Jalen’s dad got to see a few things today. Hopefully the team can pull together, all in.
 
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I realize Hurts was playing against what seems like a potentially dominant front seven and a young but promising starting secondary. Still, he had an awful game despite having some of the competitive pressure being eased off due to Tua's hand injury. A-Days are funny though...never would've assumed Sims would flourish after the A-Day game in 2014. I doubt we see a similar metamorphosis though. I think it is just a fact that Hurts lacks confidence in his arm and can't pull the trigger on throws when it is open because of his lack of confidence. He's probably our third best passer at quarterback at this juncture. I'm not hoping for the Mac Jones Era but with the right playcalling mix and a dominant defense would probably work with him at some point in his college career here if it came to it. QBs who thrive as runners that win their fair share against quality competition have one thing they do well in the passing game. Watson had great pocket awareness and a very composed manner with extending plays to throw. Vick had a live arm that could kill you if your defenders were all eyes on Vick and lost a guy deep down field. Mariota was a master of the play action fake with the quick, precise throws. Almost like a WCO QB but with great athleticism. What does Hurts do well in the passing game? It is the start of his third season and he can't always deliver a good throw into the flat.

Sims flourished because CNS had more faith in him than Coker in 2014, and CLK was really trying to show he was a great OC in 2014. Yeah his overall talent surprised me, but the result of the season did not. I still think there was no real competition after the WV game that year, and Blake really never had to look over his shoulder until the Auburn game all year. Point is he was never on a tight leash imo.

Jalen faces a similar situation with a bad A day performance, a loaded offense, and a defense that is rebuilding. However his main competition isn’t 2 Gmac carbon copies and a raw talent fall transfer with 0 experience. His competition is the hero of the national championship and a talented 3rd string qb that could find himself at #2 this fall if things continue as they are. Jalen has an extreme uphill battle, but for whatever reason I still think he gets the start against Louisville out of respect but that’s probably it.
 
Even if Hurts decides to stay and be the backup, Mac may end up ahead of Jalen as the year progresses because of the offense we will probably run. Mac has a quick release and another year in the S&C program will do wonders for him. That being said, I think Jalen transfers. Applewhite would probably love to have him.
 
After watching the game it wasn't Jalen's mediocre passing that bothered me. He seemed to be just going through the motions. He looked nothing like the leader we have seen the past 2 seasons. It's like he see's the writing on the wall.
 
After watching the game it wasn't Jalen's mediocre passing that bothered me. He seemed to be just going through the motions. He looked nothing like the leader we have seen the past 2 seasons. It's like he see's the writing on the wall.

I kinda felt that way as well...............I didn't see the improvement that I had heard about ( although I am not privy to watching practices). Granted, A Day is kinda vanilla but I cant see him winning the starting job. Just my opinion though...........I'm not Coach Saban and don't make the decisions for the team. But at this point, I feel like Tua will win the starting job..........Mac Jones also looks to have great potential
 
After watching the game it wasn't Jalen's mediocre passing that bothered me. He seemed to be just going through the motions. He looked nothing like the leader we have seen the past 2 seasons. It's like he see's the writing on the wall.

I think Jalen knows he's not beating Tua out and knows he's up against someone who's just simply a better quarterback than he is. The "defeated" look comes from realizing just how much better of a quarterback Tua is. Jalen knows, it showed during the title game when he came out, with this obvious facial expression of relief. It happens to the best of them. Just like they say in fighting. There's always someone out there bigger and badder. I think Jalen realizes his "bigger and badder" is in his own locker room. This competition may technically be still on going. But it is more than likely over in Jalen's mind. It is probably why his father lashed out this week in the article. He knows it's over as well.
 
Hope you folks won't laugh at me for this but it seems to me that Hurts is having trouble seeing the whole field! As you all know peripheral vision is very important for a quarterback. I wonder if Hurts is having problems with his peripheral vision ...Just a hunch but I believe this is worth exploring...Surely the coaches have had his vision checked? This could be a problem that Hurts himself doesn't realize he has, especially if it has developed over several months!
 
Hope you folks won't laugh at me for this but it seems to me that Hurts is having trouble seeing the whole field! As you all know peripheral vision is very important for a quarterback. I wonder if Hurts is having problems with his peripheral vision ...Just a hunch but I believe this is worth exploring...Surely the coaches have had his vision checked? This could be a problem that Hurts himself doesn't realize he has, especially if it has developed over several months!
I had wondered the same. In fact, I'd wondered it during the last two seasons. Some people just have a wider or narrower field but there are pathologies which affect it also. I've even wondered about it when he turns to make a dumpoff pass and misses his target by 2', a throw which even HS QBs make routinely with ease. It's as if the RB is not where he expected him to be...
 
I thought the same at first but after rewatching his numbers were not as good as his play. WRs dropped a lot of easily catchable balls.


I was at that game and when you're in the stadium there's a tendency to get caught up all the emotion. So I re-watched the LSU game today to see if my mind was playing tricks on me and maybe if he was better than I was thinking.

And I still say he wasn't that good in the LSU game. Let me also say that it's hard to tell about the officiating from in the stands but having had a chance to watch the replays, that was one of the worst officiated SEC games I've ever seen in my life. LSU got away with a flagrant DPI, face mask, and running into the receiver making a fair catch. You think it at the time but you give them the benefit of the doubt from the upper deck.

Hurts was 11 of 24 for 183 yards and 1 TD.

On the first two drives he was 4 for 4 for 80 yards and a TD.

That means from 6:08 of the first quarter to the end of the game he was 7 of 20 for 103 yards and 0 TDs.

47 yards - 1/4 for the game - came on ONE pass play to Ruggs....a ball he underthrew slightly for what it's worth.

On the second play of the game he held the ball too long and took a sack that set up a 3rd and 15. He had time to throw on that one.
On the third play, his line blocked a blitz and he hit the receiver who was covered a yard short of the first down. I'll be charitable and
blame Foster for not running out long enough for a first down on that one. Decent pass.

His completion to Ridley on third and long in his own territory was good - if we ignore the fact he threw the ball behind Ridley and an in stride catch would have been interesting to see how many yards we got. It's forgotten because we scored on the drive, but another foot behind him and the whole game is different.

He threw his best pass of the game to Ruggs on the second drive, covering 47 yards. Again, it was perhaps SLIGHTLY underthrown but I'll spot him with another good play.

On the third drive, he dodged the rush and (good) threw the ball along the sideline to Ridley. I'm hard-pressed to blame Calvin in light of the fact he was well-covered. A drop maybe but a debatable throw. His next pass was through Damien's hands. Debatable, but I'll blame Harris for that. Of course, since there were two tacklers right by him, he dropped a pass that would have gained 1-2 yards at best (this is hardly an advocacy for downfield passing).

SECOND QUARTER

Downfield pass to Ridley that was a decent pass and gained 24 yards on third down. Bo got a TD run on the next play.

On the next drive, he overthrew Ruggs downfield. His next pass was basically out of bounds on the sideline and we punted.

The third drive, he had a delayed QB draw up the middle that was a designed play and one of his better runs. The next play his short screen was batted down by a penetrating LSU lineman (not Jalen's fault). D Smith dropped his next pass in coverage - and ok, we can blame Smith as it would have been a first down. Of course - as Danielson noted - Smith has perhaps the surest hands on the team. It was a tough play, but I'll admit Smith should have caught it. That's a second drop and would have netted a first down. On third down, he held the ball and tried his run around the side and got stopped short of the first. Note that LSU was playing for that result....because he isn't much of a downfield passer.


So yes, there were two drops in the first half. They would MAYBE have netted 15 yards max and a first down. In light of the fact his short toss that Ridley had to stop and get likely nets 15 additional yards if thrown on target, I'd call it a wash yardage wise.

SECOND HALF

On his first pass, he overthrows Hentges (in coverage) out of bounds on a play that on target gets a first down. We punt while leading 14-3.

On the second possession, the play call was a play action pass. LSU penetrated and Jalen got nailed, no fault of his own. On 2nd and 17 he went deep and LSU basically got away with a defensive hold. Pretty good pass that was incomplete and Jeudy almost made a very good one-handed catch. On the third and seventeen, he hits a wide open Smith for 12 yards....because LSU was conceding the pass to prevent the first down.

On the next possession, Hurts did a great fake to the running back and keeper up the middle for a 15 yard run. He threw another good middle range pass to Ridley that was called back on a holding penalty. After a good short completion, he got away with firing into quadruple coverage to Cam Sims for 15 yards. On the next play he - literally - missed a read on a Calvin Ridley, who was six yards away from the closest defender....and threw the ball away. The following play, he ran the same basic play and got Ridley close to the end zone.

We scored, they scored, 21-10.

A screen to Bo for no gain. Jeudy in coverage dropped it (ok, a third drop and a first down failure). Another tuck and run for a first down (with a key block by his receiver).

To start the fourth, he hit a wide open Irv Smith for 21 yards. He then threw a good TD pass to D Smith, who dropped it. He threw the next one in blanket coverage and Smith never had a shot.

His last pass to Jeudy was Godawful....indeed, he's lucky LSU didn't return it for a pick six.

So you're half right. Receivers DID drop four balls and one cost a TD. But I would argue that he blew just as many opportunities that make the drops a wash. He missed a TD, but he made a horrible pass that could have easily gone for a pick six - at a time that was the only way LSU could have stayed in the game.


His extreme value - as always - was in his running.

Keep in mind that Troy scored as many points against LSU as Alabama did. And MSU scored 37.



Just so we're clear: I'm NOT saying that "well, we could have played anybody at QB and still won" - that's not true.

But it's equally true we could have played ALMOST anybody in the country with better passing stats and still have won.

(I began this last night before I heard about A Day; I surmise Hurts has likely played his last game for us).


As far as the Auburn game "team meltdown" (I disagree with this - we led, 14-10, after the first drive of the second half, and our defense forced a turnover when Auburn had the ball on our six while up, 7-0; and Auburn only took a small lead with 18 minutes left - and Diggs immediately returned the kickoff to Auburn territory):

it wasn't "the team" that fumbled the ball in his own territory on the second drive
it wasn't "the team" that threw into triple coverage in the end zone (Hentges nearly bailed him out)
it wasn't "the team" that drew a delay of game penalty with 2nd and 10 at the Auburn 12 (it's the QB's job to get them ready & know)
it wasn't "the team" that threw the ball short of a first down on 4th down in Auburn territory (to be fair, I'll only blame him for 1/2 this one)

Hurts threw for 112 yards in the Iron Bowl; 65 of that came on the last, meaningless play....meaning he was 12 of 21 for 47 yards the rest of the game, 36 of which came on one TD pass to Jeudy that was underthrown.

Now - before anyone thinks I'm putting the loss squarely on Jalen's shoulders:
1) he DID make some important plays that kept drives going
2) he wasn't the one who gave up 408 yards of offense to Auburn

But a QB in the modern day throwing for 47 yards in the rest of the game against a team that allows 182......isn't doing enough.

I'm done.
 
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Hope you folks won't laugh at me for this but it seems to me that Hurts is having trouble seeing the whole field! As you all know peripheral vision is very important for a quarterback. I wonder if Hurts is having problems with his peripheral vision ...Just a hunch but I believe this is worth exploring...Surely the coaches have had his vision checked? This could be a problem that Hurts himself doesn't realize he has, especially if it has developed over several months!

I've wondered the same thing.
 
I don’t follow recruiting, so were these glaring holes in Jalen’s passing game evident before he signed with us? Or did he sling it around in high school?

Yea he was a running QB. He came here to learn to play from the pocket. The best thing would have been for him to redshirt his freshman year and learn to play QB. If he could sit here and redshirt next year behind Tua it may even help him. He has to learn to forget about his legs for a season. Physically he has all the tools, strong arm can make all the throws, just needs the mental part. I don't think when he was recruited they envisioned him playing as a true freshman.
 
This goes back to what each QB had when they first arrived in T-town. Jalen came here to learn to become a pocket passer but instead we started running the read option. Kiffin said in recruiting it was what made him choose Alabama. We said we would teach him how to stay in the pocket and read defenses. Unfortunately for him he didn't get that redshirt year or even get to sit on the bench and just learn. No doubt about it Tua is a better pocket passing QB than Jalen but we knew that about both coming out of high school.

He's had TWENTY-NINE games to figure it out.....that's Coker's entire career's worth of appearances at two schools

That's one more game than Archie Manning's ENTIRE career at Ole Miss (freshman didn't play).

He's Craig Morton on the Cowboys after Super Bowl V; Tua is Roger Staubach.
 
I really thought the aTm, LSU, MSU, and Auburn games were bad showings for Hurts. Dave Arranda exposed Jalen in 2016 and every decent to great defense has came in with the same game plan ever since and pretty much shut him down.
 

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