News Article: Alabama, You've Done it Again, Part III

[crimsonaudio]

Our approach to education needs modernizing. If we can precision farm down to individual plants we ought to be able educate children as individuals rather than as a group. K12 needs more competition to improve outcomes for students.

ALL of this is why we chose to homeschool our kiddos.

Granted, we farmed out all the upper education stuff (calculus, chemistry, biology, etc) to home school collectives, but you simply cannot beat individualized education where the student learns at their speed, no faster, no slower. We could drop the hammer if the child was easily understanding, say, algebra until they hit something they struggled with, then we'd slow down - even stop - until they mastered that area. Then we're back after it.

Last I looked the US spent more than any other country, per student, for education yet US students continue to trail those in many other countries. It's not a financial issue, it's a multi-pronged issue that begins at home (parent involvement) but also highlights how poorly our public school system educates our kids (in general).

I don't like bragging on my kids as they've had some advantages many do not, so I'm not going to rattle off their post-HS educational successes - but assuming disciplined parents who will do what is needed, the personalized education of homeschooling cannot be beat, ime.

 

[81usaf92]

Our approach to education needs modernizing. If we can precision farm down to individual plants we ought to be able educate children as individuals rather than as a group. K12 needs more competition to improve outcomes for students. There should be state sponsored public schools, federal sponsored public schools, and private sponsored schools applying different learning methods and learning tracks for kids with different aptitudes and needs. All these schools should have compete for the same kids to keep the necessary funding coming. Like banks, schools should allowed to switch charters if they see benefits of improved funding, resources, and curriculum. Leverage zoom learning in depressed schools, funding tutoring and mentoring as part of the educational experience.

We already have federally funded hospitals, military bases, and prisons within the state and federally chartered banks with their independent regulatory regimes and funding sources. It can work with schools too.

I wonder what would happen if you built a 100% federally funded top notch school with a modern distant learning approach teaching equitable subject matter in science, math, personal finance, social studies, language, art, athletics and applied skills with 3 meals served per day - in Bessemer?

Well the problems of letting schools die still exist. You could put every resource in a place like Prichard and Citronelle and it’s not going to change a thing because you still haven’t solved the community or individual opinion of education. Money and good teachers are not going to solve the issue. When a kid is more worried about getting jumped or if he is going to have clean water because the water board is embezzling money then he is not going to care about education. Or when a parent views education as a baby sitter service then there is no motivation to care.

My point is that the answers can’t just continue to be “let’s throw money and resources at it” (the left) and “let’s move to this small lake community” (the right) like it has been for the last 30 years. Neither solves the core problems with public education and they are testing, administration, and community.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Public schools suck when it comes to special needs kids. My nephew's school just kept passing him on to the next grade. He now goes to private school and he is doing much better. He is actually learning.

Truthfully, you could have stopped right there. It's unbelievable that the indentured servants taxpayers accept results this bad considering how much is being spent.

 

[81usaf92]

Truthfully, you could have stopped right there. It's unbelievable that the indentured servants taxpayers accept results this bad considering how much is being spent.

Well consider this... a City in Alabama has 3 public high schools, and the only high school that reports their numbers is scoring in the 251-359 best in the state and there are only 386 public high schools.... Also in a city their whole water board and city council got caught embezzling millions of dollars on water, starting salary for a police officer is 15 an hour, and is consistently one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in Alabama.... Yeah lets keep throwing the money at those schools for those kids. Im sure it all... well maybe most...I really mean maybe some of it will reach them and improve their schools.


For whatever reason the Oprah special has convinced many people of two things... 1) Money is the issue and 2) Every kid and parent believes in education. As proven countless times, #1 is never the case. As for #2... most teachers in mid level and bad schools are underpaid basically baby sitters. I hate to say it, but its the god to honest truth. Parent involvement is very low in inner city and large county schools, and grades and statistics prove that.

Honestly I am more for a scholarship program. Because through personal experience I have found that parent and student interest in academics are the #1 and #2 determining factors in student academic success. I think grades 1-6 could be used as a measuring stick of where the commitment is. If they meet standards then I think the state could use that money that they have been using to fund these horrible schools to provide transportation and tuition to better school out of district (I am not talking about a kid in Bessemer wanting to go to Bob Jones 'huntsville' more about a kid wanting to go maybe within 25 mile radius to a better public school). That is really just a conversation starter, but throwing money at failing schools is just sticking money up a hog's rear and expecting it to do something amazing. All you are doing is feeding corrupt administrators and city council members.

 

[jthomas666]

Truthfully, you could have stopped right there. It's unbelievable that the indentured servants taxpayers accept results this bad considering how much is being spent.

I wouldn't paint with such a broad brush. There are a lot of good public school systems and good public schools.

While it is true that blindly throwing money at failing schools isn't going to accomplish much, it's also true that if you truly want better teachers at failing schools, you should be willing to pay them more.

What we don't want to do is fall into the trap of just throwing our hands in the air saying "the problem is students' home life; since we can't fix that, we can't solve the problem." That's the same path that has led the GOP to thoughts and prayers.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

ALL of this is why we chose to homeschool our kiddos.

Granted, we farmed out all the upper education stuff (calculus, chemistry, biology, etc) to home school collectives, but you simply cannot beat individualized education where the student learns at their speed, no faster, no slower. We could drop the hammer if the child was easily understanding, say, algebra until they hit something they struggled with, then we'd slow down - even stop - until they mastered that area. Then we're back after it.

Last I looked the US spent more than any other country, per student, for education yet US students continue to trail those in many other countries. It's not a financial issue, it's a multi-pronged issue that begins at home (parent involvement) but also highlights how poorly our public school system educates our kids (in general).

I don't like bragging on my kids as they've had some advantages many do not, so I'm not going to rattle off their post-HS educational successes - but assuming disciplined parents who will do what is needed, the personalized education of homeschooling cannot be beat, ime.

How does it work with two income families?

 

[crimsonaudio]

How does it work with two income families?

It goes one of two ways, ime:
1- they do school at other-than-normal hours. The reality is homeschooling requires far less 'classroom time' than any school, so it's no uncommon to find families who do school whenever mom or dad get home. Nor is it uncommon for parents to let their older (depending on maturity, say, middle school and up) to use some sort of online curriculum, allowing the parents to act more as the principal rather than the teacher.
2- if able, I've seen the parents decide to trim down their discretionary spending (downsizing houses, cars, etc) in order to afford to live on one income.

Many HS kids cover more subjects at greater depth in fewer hours than any public school could possibly achieve - it's actually quite easy to fit it into a schedule. And if you can afford to have mom (or dad, whatever) stay home, all the better.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

It goes one of two ways, ime:
1- they do school at other-than-normal hours. The reality is homeschooling requires far less 'classroom time' than any school, so it's no uncommon to find families who do school whenever mom or dad get home. Nor is it uncommon for parents to let their older (depending on maturity, say, middle school and up) to use some sort of online curriculum, allowing the parents to act more as the principal rather than the teacher.
2- if able, I've seen the parents decide to trim down their discretionary spending (downsizing houses, cars, etc) in order to afford to live on one income.

Many HS kids cover more subjects at greater depth in fewer hours than any public school could possibly achieve - it's actually quite easy to fit it into a schedule. And if you can afford to have mom (or dad, whatever) stay home, all the better.

Assuming two incomes, at what age to you think it's wise to leave children alone at home?

 

[crimsonaudio]

Assuming two incomes, at what age to you think it's wise to leave children alone at home?

It depends entirely on the maturity of the child, the area you live in, etc. For our kids, in our area, and if we had needed to do so, probably around age 12

 

[81usaf92]

While it is true that blindly throwing money at failing schools isn't going to accomplish much, it's also true that if you truly want better teachers at failing schools, you should be willing to pay them more.

That’s not really true at all. For as much fear mongering that the left does about the advantages and the students that private schools have over public school teachers, they never consider that the average private school teacher makes peanuts compared to the average public school teacher when they talk about raising teacher pay to combat bad schools. In Alabama the median pay for a private school teacher is 25k. Public school starting pay is 40 (BA) and 47 (MA). Plus public school teachers have far more job security, better benefits, and career mobility than a private school teacher could ever dream of.

Do teachers need pay raises? Yeah.

Do paying teachers more solve anything with failing schools? No

What people don’t factor in is classrooms and administrators. Mostly because they have never dealt with either, or never have dealt with truly bad ones. No amount of pay is going to convince anyone to deal with the nonsense that failing schools have in both administrations and classrooms. There are certified teachers that rather flip burgers at McDonald’s or sell drinks at Starbucks than ever set foot into another classroom full of IEPs all day with an administrator who rather focus on enriching himself than ensuring the safety and security of the staff and students. And there is no one to complain about his misdeeds because he was the only bozo that the county could find to take that specific 90k job.

 

[crimsonaudio]

And no amount of money is going to counteract uninvolved / uncaring parents.

 

[92tide]

I wouldn't paint with such a broad brush. There are a lot of good public school systems and good public schools.

While it is true that blindly throwing money at failing schools isn't going to accomplish much, it's also true that if you truly want better teachers at failing schools, you should be willing to pay them more.

What we don't want to do is fall into the trap of just throwing our hands in the air saying "the problem is students' home life; since we can't fix that, we can't solve the problem." That's the same path that has led the GOP to thoughts and prayers.

even at the worst public schools, there are plenty of smart, hard-working kids. they are the one's i am worried about when these discussions start.

 

[81usaf92]

even at the worst public schools, there are plenty of smart, hard-working kids. they are the one's i am worried about when these discussions start.

Yeah and they need to be in better schools. We would be better off sending the money towards making that happen instead of testing the definition of insanity by pumping money into schools that are failing on epic proportions. I mean how much more money does it really take to see that it just doesn’t work.

But when one side’s argument is based solely on pumping money into schools and the other’s is solely on redistricting then we get into the cycle of blaming teachers, blaming curriculum, and pretending students and parents are not a contributing factor as well.

 

[92tide]

Yeah and they need to be in better schools. We would be better off sending the money towards making that happen instead of testing the definition of insanity by pumping money into schools that are failing on epic proportions. I mean how much more money does it really take to see that it just doesn’t work.

But when one side’s argument is based solely on pumping money into schools and the other’s is solely on redistricting then we get into the cycle of blaming teachers, blaming curriculum, and pretending students and parents are not a contributing factor as well.

i agree. its a wicked problem

 

[81usaf92]

I guess this goes here since there is 0 interest on the baseball board and it kinda straddles the line of being an ethical question for higher education and sports topic. It’s just weird seeing lawsuits against university staffs

Bama baseball staff sued by former player

 

[JDCrimson]

This kind of stuff and NIL would make me want to consider another career if Im a coach. Unless you have a billionaire who likes your program it's near impossible to have enduring success in the current age.

I guess this goes here since there is 0 interest on the baseball board and it kinda straddles the line of being an ethical question for higher education and sports topic. It’s just weird seeing lawsuits against university staffs

Bama baseball staff sued by former player

 

[Crimson1967]

If true, it would be a way to fire Bohanan for cause and avoid a buyout.

 

[Maudiemae]

I have questions. Are any of you teachers? Do any of you KNOW any teachers? Do you know how hard and long they work? Do you know how much of their own money they spend on basic materials? Do you know that it takes forever to get reimbursed and that some of the money is never reimbursed? Do you actually know any low earning, two income families? Do you know any low income single parent families? I'm trying to imagine some of the single parents I know coming home, cooking dinner and then homeschooling children. Wow.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I have questions.

Are any of you teachers?

I am not.

Do any of you KNOW any teachers?

Of course.

Do you know how hard and long they work?

Yes.

Do you know how much of their own money they spend on basic materials?

Yes.

Do you know that it takes forever to get reimbursed and that some of the money is never reimbursed?

Yes.

Do you actually know any low earning, two income families?

Yes.

Do you know any low income single parent families?

Yes.

I'm trying to imagine some of the single parents I know coming home, cooking dinner and then homeschooling children. Wow.

It's not for everyone. Heck, I'd argue that despite it having the potential to be the best possible educational situation for most kids, few adults in the US have the discipline to home school their children well. But I do know a few low-income families (and single parents) who home school.

There's zero question being a teacher is a tough job, but it's a completely different job than home schooling. It's akin to comparing a line chef to someone who loves to cook as a hobby - the hobbyest would likely be overwhelmed trying to manage a commercial kitchen, but can possibly prepare better individual meals than the commercial chef.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I have questions. Are any of you teachers? Do any of you KNOW any teachers? Do you know how hard and long they work? Do you know how much of their own money they spend on basic materials? Do you know that it takes forever to get reimbursed and that some of the money is never reimbursed? Do you actually know any low earning, two income families? Do you know any low income single parent families? I'm trying to imagine some of the single parents I know coming home, cooking dinner and then homeschooling children. Wow.

My first wife was a teacher, first at St. Michael Catholic School and later at Tate high school. She got a taste of both private and public and one thing she understood was the enduring truth that whichever type of school a kid goes to, he or she will only get out of it what they put into it. The core issue with terrible schools is that they typically are found in an area where culture dictates that education isn't really that important and it shows. The kids don't care and neither do their parents. I don't know how to fix that, but pumping more funds into an indifferent administration will not.