Are you for - or against the death penalty?

Bazza

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Oct 1, 2011
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South Carolina death row inmate to be executed by firing squad, first in US in 15 years

A man convicted of a double murder is scheduled to be executed in South Carolina Friday night by firing squad - a method that has not been used in the United States in almost 15 years, and never in the state.
Brad Sigmon, 67, chose firing squad over the two other state approved methods of execution, lethal injection or the electric chair.

Sigmon was convicted of the 2001 bludgeoning deaths of his ex-girlfriend’s parents. After their murders Sigmon kidnapped his ex-girlfriend at gunpoint, but she managed to escape.
 
I go back and forth with the death penalty, but this man beat these two people to death with a baseball bat, a truly brutal and horrific way to die.

"Sigmon entered the home of the Larkes, located at 948 East Darby Road in Taylors, where he found 62-year-old David Larke in the kitchen and 59-year-old Gladys Larke in the living room. Armed with a baseball bat, Sigmon attacked the couple, beating them one after another with the bat, going back and forth between the two rooms. Sigmon stopped the assault after the couple died. Each of the Larkes sustained nine blows to their heads, which crushed their skulls. After murdering the Larkes, Sigmon stole David's gun and waited for Barbare to return home."

I've zero problem with the determination that he has given up his right to life.
 
I go back and forth with the death penalty, but this man beat these two people to death with a baseball bat, a truly brutal and horrific way to die.

"Sigmon entered the home of the Larkes, located at 948 East Darby Road in Taylors, where he found 62-year-old David Larke in the kitchen and 59-year-old Gladys Larke in the living room. Armed with a baseball bat, Sigmon attacked the couple, beating them one after another with the bat, going back and forth between the two rooms. Sigmon stopped the assault after the couple died. Each of the Larkes sustained nine blows to their heads, which crushed their skulls. After murdering the Larkes, Sigmon stole David's gun and waited for Barbare to return home."

I've zero problem with the determination that he has given up his right to life.
Generally speaking, I'm against the death penalty for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the judicial and prosecutorial misconduct that has put many innocent men on death row. Having said that, if the proof is irrefutable (meaning not based on witness testimony, but by dependable science) then yeah, toss em into the row.
 
I'm largely in agreement with the last several posts. I don't have a problem with executing those guilty of the most evil of behaviors. But any manmade system will have flaws. And with the expense of the decades-long appeals process, life is prison is good enough.
Not to mention, life in prison is less a burden on taxpayers than keeping some schmuck on death row for 30 years.

If you never saw the HBO show, "Oz" then you missed out on one of the most heart-wrenching displays of the death penalty you'll ever see. (I believe it was the last season and involved one of the O'Reily brothers. My wife and I both were tearing up hard.)
 
In my youth I was for the Death Penalty but changed my mind over time.

Part of that is the possibility that innocent people can be put to death.

It only took watching a few documentaries on the subject to change my feelings.

When it comes to killing people as a form of punishment you have to be 100% sure of their guilt.

The other part is that I believe in reincarnation and on the off chance that a person comes back just as bad as before then it would be better to ‘take them off the board’ for a few decades in prison.
 
Since the 1970s, the ratio of death row executions to exonerations is 8:1. Certainly some people have committed crimes that might deserve a forfeiture of life, but between faulty forensics and police/prosecutorial misconduct, the risk of killing an innocent person is much too high for me.
The guy in South Carolina freely and openly admitted he bludgeoned the victims to death with a baseball bat.
I can accept life in prison without parole, but the endless (and last-second) appeals (especially at taxpayer expense) drive me crazy.
Once the perp is convicted, his lawyers have to develop their grounds for appeal, once. When those are exhausted, carry out the sentence.
 
The guy in South Carolina freely and openly admitted he bludgeoned the victims to death with a baseball bat.
I can accept life in prison without parole, but the endless (and last-second) appeals (especially at taxpayer expense) drive me crazy.
Once the perp is convicted, his lawyers have to develop their grounds for appeal, once. When those are exhausted, carry out the sentence.
I think in most states with the death penalty there are automatic triggered appeals that occur at various levels to insure guilt - I don't think all the appeals are typically from the condemned. Just listened to a podcast on my ruck the other day where a state AG talked through the process.
 
I was also once strongly in favor of it. But over time I have turned against it. I don’t think it deters crime. If it did, Texas wouldn’t have the second highest murder rate in the country. I also think it is applied fairly. The same case could get different sentences based on random whims of a jury. A good lawyer can make a big difference as well.

And the possibility someone could be innocent and executed for a crime they didn’t commit. I know it’s fiction, but look at The Shawshank Redemption. Andy had motive and opportunity to kill his wife and her boyfriend. He was in the neighborhood that night and owned a gun like the one used by the killer that he said he threw in the river. I would have convicted him based on the evidence.

That said, I don’t lose sleep over people like the guy they shot in South Carolina.
 
Blacks account for 13% of USA population the last time I looked...they are executed @ 2 ½ times that rate according to these statistics. Thanks for sharing...

Women make up 50.5% of the population and we've put TWO to death in the last eight years.

Why?

Because THAT'S NOT HOW STATISTICS WORK!!!

95% of the murders are committed by men, but they make up 99.9% of those executed, but only 49% of the population. But nobody would dare say this means the death penalty is somehow "sexist" against men.

Re: your point in another post about it's usually poor and/or minority executed.

But who commits the murders?

Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg and for that matter most people with six-figure salaries aren't going to commit a murder personally; at most, they'll hire a hit man (another issue of equality that sorta hits at the "boys in girl's sports" argument given you virtually never hear of a hit WOMAN, even though you'd think that would be a more difficult case to solve). Inevitably, any sort of death penalty is going to be carried out against someone who doesn't exactly have a lot of means to hire someone, hire a good lawyer, or escape to another country.


Now having said all that for information purposes....as noted above, I used to really be "for" it until too many cases of prosecutorial misconduct and even someone in my career field sink testing* and providing false positives that led to a mass release of wrongly convicted criminals in Massachusetts (and it now appears Annie Dookhan was hardly alone) led me to have to say "we have to be 100% sure."

Bin Laden? Yes
Saddam? Yes
McVeigh? Yes
Tsarnaev? Yes

And I could probably name a dozen others if I thought real hard about it. So I'm VERY RELUCTANT to risk taking an innocent life. As bad as 20 years in the can (with apologies to Phil Leotardo) is, at least if we release them later and pay them a settlement, we haven't killed them.


*Sink testing is a deceitful laboratory practice also known as dry labbing. There are several ways to do this. A lab tech may run the positive control or a diluted mix of the positive control or even inject a known patient sample's previous positive into another patient sample. The central point, however it occurs, is the laboratory technologist DOES NOT RUN the authentic/pristine patient's sample but in some way compromises the results. This is why it never supposed to be known in a laboratory precisely WHOSE sample you have (e.g. you run sample NUMBERS and report out the results, never knowing who the patient is - because it might be someone famous or a famous case).

The most effective "sink testers" are very difficult to catch - because they do 90% of the normal work to cover their tracks with paperwork, results that show the sample number and LOOK authentic, and there's nothing obviously wrong. If a higher up asks to see the sample for review, you can provide one that the higher up doesn't necessarily know is compromised.
 
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FTR, I don't see the death penalty as a crime deterrence, I see it as the ultimate punishment reserved for those who are deemed incorrigible by society.

I couldn't care less if the death penalty prevents one single person from committing murder (although if we had the "old standards" in this country, maybe it would - no, I don't want to go back there).

Its purpose is to prevent repeat offending.
 
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One note here on the OJ Simpson case (speaking of a black man who never had any chance of getting the death penalty even if he was found guilty) - too long for my previous post.

Remember when the defense team lost their collective minds over the lab report that showed EDTA (an anticoagulant in those lavender blood tubes that binds calcium), saying this was "proof" of the "cops planting the evidence"?

What that actually was was the laboratory being HONEST about their findings. The lab tech PROBABLY screwed up using a positive control to set the instrument for blood testing. I don't know what instrument they used, but that was 30 years ago, and at the time most laboratory TRAINING (this was obviously higher level) used spectrophotometers that required wiping the probe with cleaner. It is entirely possible that the probe wasn't properly cleaned and control was left on it; it is also possible since EDTA is also found in laundry detergent (socks) and paint thinner (the freshly painted gate at Brentwood) that there REALLY WAS EDTA in the tested blood, depending upon what the specifics of testing were (I do not know these so I cannot comment).

If the laboratory had NOT reported EDTA when they got it, and the defense team learned of it (as would likely have happened), the LABORATORY'S reputation is compromised. Because this did, well, they gave the Simpson defense a little grain that they blew into a full-scale tree of proof of a frame-up.

I've worked in laboratories for 30 years. We make mistakes every day - just like happens in every other walk of life. But we also have protocols and rules that if you follow those every time will remove 99% of the problems, too. Most of the time we catch a mistake before it ever gets reported. It takes astronomical odds IF THE LAB IS DOING WHAT THEY SHOULD to turn out something that is enough to wrongly incarcerate someone.
 
I've got no problem with the idea of the death penalty, but therre have been too many instances of innocent people being executed--often by prosecutors who've suppressed exonerating evidence--to want to put it into practice.
 
I've got no problem with the idea of the death penalty, but therre have been too many instances of innocent people being executed--often by prosecutors who've suppressed exonerating evidence--to want to put it into practice.
The reverse of that is serial killers where we know with 100% certainty they did it, sit on death row for at least a decade.
 
As a rule, I am against it. But if someone does something heinous, and deliberate, and the evidence is clear (confession, DNA), I'm not going to lose any sleep over the outcome.

That being said, Death Row in many states is full of people convicted with substandard defense, with planted evidence/jailhouse stoolies' tips, etc. I suspect Texas has executed many innocent men.

I have often wondered why the means of execution have to be so barbaric. Such as Alabama's use of nitrogen. Nothing worse than choking to death. Why can't a sedative be given, pump carbon monoxide and let the accused just drift away.
 
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