Brent Key is interior OL coach; Cristobal to T/TE; Williams to off-field position

[gtgilbert]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

This is not an idea that just came from this season... but the entire time since CMC has been here. No one expects a repeat of 2012 every year... and I agree an OL group WILL generally have a strength/weakness. However, if you couldn't see the issues with pass blocking/whifs/penalties last year, you're letting a championship cloud your vision.

Any OL coach will tell you that it's easiest to teach a kid run blocking - the thing that's difficult is to teach pass pro skills. As such, we should always expect an OL group to be strong in run blocking. Coaching and player development for most kids with size/ability is going to be measured by their progress in pass protection.

That's true of run blocking when it's man run blocking assignments, but with the zone blocking CMC brought in it's not alway the case. I think it's that change that made the run blocking less consistent because guys aren't playing their zones right/consistently. When they do it right, and get a hat on hat, they block very well. When they don't, it looks like a whiff, a defender is essentially unblocked and it tended to be a TFL. The most common one I saw was when the Tackle would stand up the defender in front of him and then start to release to the next level, with the expectation the Guard would be scraping to fill, the the guard wouldn't get there, or was blocking someone else so now that guy is free. That looks like the tackle's fault to us, but no one knows but the coaches who was really at fault based on the read and calls on the OL and who made the mistake - was the OT supposed to sustain that block, or was the guard supposed to scrape? That part of coaching, and IMHO, is where we have regressed.

 

[CrimsonForce]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Yet you open that post with "I don't get the criticism of the offensive line"... ???

It's not that simple friend. Let me explain. There are multiple aspects of the offensive line. A lot of the offensive line play was very good. So good, in fact, that they paved the way for heisman trophy winning running back and the best single rushing season in SEC history. Oh, and they also won the inaugural award for the best offensive line in the country. Does that mean that the offensive line was perfect or there isn't room for improvement? Of course not. That's when I mentioned the TFL, sacks, pass blocking etc. Sure, the offensive line can be criticized but I think the good far outweighed the bad in regards to offensive line play. Only on an Alabama football board will someone argue about the offensive line play being bad with the following accomplishments - Offensive Line of the Year Award, Heisman trophy winning running back, best single rushing season in SEC history, SEC Champions, complete domination of Michigan State in the semifinals and then beating Clemson for the national championship.

I don't want to spar on this subject. Bottom line, IMO, is that the offensive line, for the most part, was a very good unit last year. There are areas for improvement thus the coaching changes were made. Looking forward to see how the offensive line comes together this year..

 

[KrAzY3]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

This should be mentioned although it's such a common thing with the Alabama team, that people barely notice anymore, but last year the offensive line was actually fairly inexperienced. I'm not sure how many starts they had total but it was in the bottom half of the SEC from what I can recall. What typically happens, with teams made up of mere mortals is a particular group tends to peak after having time to gel. This is important with an offensive line, the ones that tend to dominate have a whole lot of starts together under their belt. I could be mistaken but from what I recall the offensive line last year just didn't have that many starts together. I just double checked and they only returned 2 starters.

I applied this line of thinking to the issues with the secondary as well. People questioned the performance in the two previous seasons, but there were young/inexperienced guys out there. It isn't necessarily a coaching problem sometimes, it can just be the fact that those guys need to see more time on the field. Part of what Nick Saban does that is so remarkable, is he puts up results year in year out. Not many coaches can do that and fans just tend to overlook the inexperience of a unit, even if that never bodes well for on-field performance.

 

[BAMARICH]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

It's not that simple friend. Let me explain. There are multiple aspects of the offensive line. A lot of the offensive line play was very good. So good, in fact, that they paved the way for heisman trophy winning running back and the best single rushing season in SEC history. Oh, and they also won the inaugural award for the best offensive line in the country. Does that mean that the offensive line was perfect or there isn't room for improvement? Of course not. That's when I mentioned the TFL, sacks, pass blocking etc. Sure, the offensive line can be criticized but I think the good far outweighed the bad in regards to offensive line play. Only on an Alabama football board will someone argue about the offensive line play being bad with the following accomplishments - Offensive Line of the Year Award, Heisman trophy winning running back, best single rushing season in SEC history, SEC Champions, complete domination of Michigan State in the semifinals and then beating Clemson for the national championship.

I don't want to spar on this subject. Bottom line, IMO, is that the offensive line, for the most part, was a very good unit last year. There are areas for improvement thus the coaching changes were made. Looking forward to see how the offensive line comes together next year..

I've coached OL in the past friend... so I do know a little bit about what goes into constructing an effective unit. For some reason or another, whenever anyone criticizes a group/coach at Alabama, people run to the "only on an Alabama board will you see _______" argument. That's simply not correct. If you visit any top five program's FB board, you'll see the same thing. Winning it all or even blocking for a record-setting rushing performance doesn't mean a group is above criticism. Being above average in run blocking but below average in pass blocking over the course of a whole year doesn't equate to "very good" in my book... especially when Henry's yards after contact average is factored into the equation. We can say what we want, but Saban made the change.

 

[BAMARICH]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

That's true of run blocking when it's man run blocking assignments, but with the zone blocking CMC brought in it's not alway the case. I think it's that change that made the run blocking less consistent because guys aren't playing their zones right/consistently. When they do it right, and get a hat on hat, they block very well. When they don't, it looks like a whiff, a defender is essentially unblocked and it tended to be a TFL. The most common one I saw was when the Tackle would stand up the defender in front of him and then start to release to the next level, with the expectation the Guard would be scraping to fill, the the guard wouldn't get there, or was blocking someone else so now that guy is free. That looks like the tackle's fault to us, but no one knows but the coaches who was really at fault based on the read and calls on the OL and who made the mistake - was the OT supposed to sustain that block, or was the guard supposed to scrape? That part of coaching, and IMHO, is where we have regressed.

You're correct about the zone blocking scheme... it's often difficult to know who messed up and for what reason at times. I think Kiffin's offense also might have something to do with it also - possibly requiring more zone blocking schemes. Any way it goes, I want to see improvement next year in pass protection. If it doesn't Barnett (if he's the starter) won't likely make the season injury free as Coker did this last year.

 

[Marg]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

the detroit lions must have had one of the greatest offensive lines in the history of the nfl. did you see the numbers that barry sanders was able to put up behind them?

 

[B1GTide]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

You're correct about the zone blocking scheme... it's often difficult to know who messed up and for what reason at times. I think Kiffin's offense also might have something to do with it also - possibly requiring more zone blocking schemes. Any way it goes, I want to see improvement next year in pass protection. If it doesn't Barnett (if he's the starter) won't likely make the season injury free as Coker did this last year.

You also have to consider that, going into the season, your receiving corps is a huge asset that has to be leveraged. That probably requires better pass blocking with such an inexperienced QB.

 

[BamaMoon]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

You also have to consider that, going into the season, your receiving corps is a huge asset that has to be leveraged. That probably requires better pass blocking with such an inexperienced QB.

Likely the reason for this change. Change is coming IMO. Not that we'll turn into a pass dominant offense because CNS likes balance but I think he wants to make BB (or whoever is the next qb) a real weapon and with our receiving corp, why wouldn't he?

 

[rylandtide]

Did not read the entire thread, who is special teams coach now; I must have missed that.

 

[CrimsonForce]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

the detroit lions must have had one of the greatest offensive lines in the history of the nfl. did you see the numbers that barry sanders was able to put up behind them?

Two completely different running styles. Barry Sanders had to make several defenders miss on every play to get his yards. Henry was virtually untouched on almost all of his long runs..

 

[BamaMoon]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Two completely different running styles. Barry Sanders had to make several defenders miss on every play to get his yards. Henry was virtually untouched on almost all of his long runs..

Which begs the question, "What would have happened on those runs when he got tackled for loss right after the handoff had the play been blocked properly?" It happened a lot.

 

[Mke4Bama]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Which begs the question, "What would have happened on those runs when he got tackled for loss right after the handoff had the play been blocked properly?" It happened a lot.

I believe he would have been looking at a 2500 yard season. JMO

 

[CrimsonForce]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Which begs the question, "What would have happened on those runs when he got tackled for loss right after the handoff had the play been blocked properly?" It happened a lot.

The man rushed for 2200 yards and 28 touchdowns. That's pretty good. I agree with everyone that the TFL, sacks, negative plays etc were to frequent. It's hard to put all of those plays only on the offensive line. Some of those plays Coker could have checked out of, some of the playcalling could improve, many times the defense just made a good play and yes, a lot of those plays the offensive line just got whipped or had a mental error and missed the block. So, in short, yes, everything can be improved upon and there isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism. I guess I was in the minority as one who was generally pleased with the offensive line play last year. I'm also pleased to see that CNS is continually trying to create the best staff that he can. Shows he still has that competitive spirit. I think with the talent that we have and this coaching change that this years offensive line could be one of the best of the CNS era..

 

[TideMan09]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

I've coached OL in the past friend... so I do know a little bit about what goes into constructing an effective unit. For some reason or another, whenever anyone criticizes a group/coach at Alabama, people run to the "only on an Alabama board will you see _______" argument. That's simply not correct. If you visit any top five program's FB board, you'll see the same thing. Winning it all or even blocking for a record-setting rushing performance doesn't mean a group is above criticism. Being above average in run blocking but below average in pass blocking over the course of a whole year doesn't equate to "very good" in my book... especially when Henry's yards after contact average is factored into the equation. We can say what we want, but Saban made the change.

I agree 100% with ya..As good as our O-Line was, they did have the weaknesses you pointed out, having a generational RB in Derrick Henry masked those weaknesses..

What's scary for college football is Coach Saban is making coaching staff changes to improve our O-Line & I have no doubt our O-Line will be better as a unit this coming season cause the talent is there..A good as our O-Line was last year, it could've been even better, that's a fact & college football will see a better O-Line next I suspect..That should be scary to think about for the rest of college football..

 

[RTR91]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Went back to the 2012 season and looked at Lacy, Yeldon (2013, 2014) and Henry (2014, 2015)'s gained yards, lost yards, and rushing attempts.

Here are the "loss yards per attempt" averages of those players:

.16
.17
.19
.20
.21

Anyone want to take a guess at the player and year that goes with each average?

 

[crimsonaudio]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Since we're talking about the OL, let's look at this...

TFL allowed, national ranking:
2012: 63 (32nd)
2013: 56 (12th)
2014: 63 (27th)
2015: 101 (125th)

'One of these is not like the others, one of these just doesn't belong...'

 

[BAMARICH]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Read what you'd like into the discussion, but these are the stats for this season...

* 101 tackles for loss, 125th out of 127 teams (Boston College - 103, Fresno State - 105), our defense had 108 TFL
* 25 sacks (53rd out of 127 teams) and 46 hurries (no national stat could be found to compare against)
* Prior to the postseason, 46% of Derrick Henry's rushing yards (916) were gained after contact
* Lowest rushing yards per game output in the past four years (200 per game)

In my opinion, the one most revealing to the statement "they paved the way to to an SEC rushing record" is the last. In 2014, we averaged 207 rushing yards per game... 2013 - 205, 2012 - 227. In reality, our OL didn't "pave the way to a new rushing record", the lion's share of the rushing yards just went to one back (Henry) in 2015 as compared to the three previous years. Not taking away from the accomplishment whatsoever... but had any one of our RB's in 12-14 had the percentage of the team's rushing yards Henry had last season, they would have had the record before him.

 

[rgw]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

For the first half of the season, we had some big struggles with consistent blocking on perimeter runs. Off-tackle tight was a strong suit of the run blocking but stuff like tosses and stretch plays just outright sucked.

 

[RTR91]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Since we're talking about the OL, let's look at this...

TFL allowed, national ranking:
2012: 63 (32nd)
2013: 56 (12th)
2014: 63 (27th)
2015: 101 (125th)

'One of these is not like the others, one of these just doesn't belong...'

Read what you'd like into the discussion, but these are the stats for this season...

* 101 tackles for loss, 125th out of 127 teams (Boston College - 103, Fresno State - 105), our defense had 108 TFL

How many of those were due to the jet sweep and failed quick screens? I know there weren't 30+, so the number would still be higher than the previous years. Just curious about the actual number of TFLs on RBs and QBs.

* Prior to the postseason, 46% of Derrick Henry's rushing yards (916) were gained after contact
* Lowest rushing yards per game output in the past four years (200 per game)

In my opinion, the one most revealing to the statement "they paved the way to to an SEC rushing record" is the last. In 2014, we averaged 207 rushing yards per game... 2013 - 205, 2012 - 227. In reality, our OL didn't "pave the way to a new rushing record", the lion's share of the rushing yards just went to one back (Henry) in 2015 as compared to the three previous years. Not taking away from the accomplishment whatsoever... but had any one of our RB's in 12-14 had the percentage of the team's rushing yards Henry had last season, they would have had the record before him.

That's bringing depth issues at another position into the discussion, though. No, the OL isn't the reason Henry got the record. It's because neither Harris nor Scarbrough took a solid grip on the #2 spot. Heck, 2012 is the only season you listed where Alabama had more rushing yards than it did this year.

The OL is going to get some praise for Henry's stats just like every coach gets praise for what his position group/players do.

 

[CrimsonForce]

Re: Brent Key to be Alabama OL coach

Read what you'd like into the discussion, but these are the stats for this season...

* 101 tackles for loss, 125th out of 127 teams (Boston College - 103, Fresno State - 105), our defense had 108 TFL
* 25 sacks (53rd out of 127 teams) and 46 hurries (no national stat could be found to compare against)
* Prior to the postseason, 46% of Derrick Henry's rushing yards (916) were gained after contact
* Lowest rushing yards per game output in the past four years (200 per game)

In my opinion, the one most revealing to the statement "they paved the way to to an SEC rushing record" is the last. In 2014, we averaged 207 rushing yards per game... 2013 - 205, 2012 - 227. In reality, our OL didn't "pave the way to a new rushing record", the lion's share of the rushing yards just went to one back (Henry) in 2015 as compared to the three previous years. Not taking away from the accomplishment whatsoever... but had any one of our RB's in 12-14 had the percentage of the team's rushing yards Henry had last season, they would have had the record before him.

All that's been stated ad nauseam. What's the point of bemoaning the offensive line play from last year when several of those guys aren't on the team anymore? Everyone has agreed about the trouble areas and the room for improvement in those areas. Let's talk about how this coaching change coupled with the returning/incoming talent will shape the offensive line this year. We know the left tackle position is in very good shape and we have 2 returning guards. That leaves the center position (Hassenauer?) and the right tackle position (maybe Baldwin or one of the incoming freshman) up for grabs. Should be a good mix of experience and talent..