Can We Expect A Different Approach To DB Pass Coverage?

[Bamabuzzard]

To me, the biggest issue about DB's getting burnt is the lack of getting home consistently on the blitzes and not consistently getting a pass rush in general. Saban's DB's getting beat wasn't always a "thing". My memory may be fading but it seems in the years our front 7 could consistently apply pressure or blitzes were actually timed right, we didn't get burnt anywhere near as much on the back end. Whether you turn your head or not, asking DBs to cover for more than a few seconds in today's offensive era is a tough and sometimes impossible ask. Especially seeing how the rules and penalties favor the offense.

 

[AlexanderFan]

To me, the biggest issue about DB's getting burnt is the lack of getting home consistently on the blitzes and not consistently getting a pass rush in general. Saban's DB's getting beat wasn't always a "thing". My memory may be fading but it seems in the years our front 7 could consistently apply pressure or blitzes were actually timed right, we didn't get burnt anywhere near as much on the back end. Whether you turn your head or not, asking DBs to cover for more than a few seconds in today's offensive era is a tough and sometimes impossible ask. Especially seeing how the rules and penalties favor the offense.

Early on it was the combination of pressure and defensive backs in phase that made the defense seem so invulnerable. The throws had to be absolutely perfect, that’s why it took exceptional quarterback play to beat the early Saban teams. As the defensive front pressure began to lessen, the defensive backs looked far more human.

 

[gtgilbert]

To me, the biggest issue about DB's getting burnt is the lack of getting home consistently on the blitzes and not consistently getting a pass rush in general. Saban's DB's getting beat wasn't always a "thing". My memory may be fading but it seems in the years our front 7 could consistently apply pressure or blitzes were actually timed right, we didn't get burnt anywhere near as much on the back end. Whether you turn your head or not, asking DBs to cover for more than a few seconds in today's offensive era is a tough and sometimes impossible ask. Especially seeing how the rules and penalties favor the offense.

let's not go deep here, and just say that the way Golding tried to use our front 6 and his blitzes were just awful. Had Will Anderson playing inside as a 3 tech at times and the ILB blitzes rarely got home. Criminal mis-allocation of ability.

 

[bamajas]

He would frequently say as much. Once they’re in a position to get beat, multiple others haven’t done their jobs, they’re literally the last line of defense. We would see the few times it would happen and pretend it’s a pattern or a weakness.

Fan griping about DB play is near the top of the list of my pet peeves from the Saban era

 

[davefrat]

He would frequently say as much. Once they’re in a position to get beat, multiple others haven’t done their jobs, they’re literally the last line of defense. We would see the few times it would happen and pretend it’s a pattern or a weakness.

Fan griping about DB play is near the top of the list of my pet peeves from the Saban era

The worst of the DB play during the Saban era probably coincided with the times we had trouble pressuring the QB. Under Golding we had a lot of wasted effort on the DL.

I know that sounds so fundamental as to be almost stupid.

 

[BamaMoon]

To me, the biggest issue about DB's getting burnt is the lack of getting home consistently on the blitzes and not consistently getting a pass rush in general. Saban's DB's getting beat wasn't always a "thing". My memory may be fading but it seems in the years our front 7 could consistently apply pressure or blitzes were actually timed right, we didn't get burnt anywhere near as much on the back end. Whether you turn your head or not, asking DBs to cover for more than a few seconds in today's offensive era is a tough and sometimes impossible ask. Especially seeing how the rules and penalties favor the offense.

Rings true. The best years were of course when the 3 down lineman could get pressure. We had some dominant nose tackles several years and those defenses seemed to cover better, as you suggest.

And the most frustrating times, even under Kirby, but especially under "Gol*ing," was when we'd send pressure and not get home and get burned a lot on 3rd downs.

 

[jjv0004]

I was looking back over Saban's coaching record and number of titles. I sure hope DeBoer changes up how the DB's cover since Saban clearly had no idea what he was doing.

That's a joke by the way before someone tries to tear up my argument.

 

[bamajas]

The worst of the DB play during the Saban era probably coincided with the times we had trouble pressuring the QB. Under Golding we had a lot of wasted effort on the DL.

I know that sounds so fundamental as to be almost stupid.

Correct

But here we are with a blossoming thread thinking we can cure CNS's approach (in the area of his expertise, no less)

 

[gtgilbert]

Rings true. The best years were of course when the 3 down lineman could get pressure. We had some dominant nose tackles several years and those defenses seemed to cover better, as you suggest.

And the most frustrating times, even under Kirby, but especially under "Gol*ing," was when we'd send pressure and not get home and get burned a lot on 3rd downs.

we very, very rarely relied on just 3 DL in the pass rush. There was almost always an OLB who basically a rush end on passing downs so that we were using a 4 man rush.

 

[Ledsteplin]

I'm excited, and ready to see what Wommack's boys can do. Is it August 31st yet? 😂 Roll Tide!

 

[BamaMoon]

we very, very rarely relied on just 3 DL in the pass rush. There was almost always an OLB who basically a rush end on passing downs so that we were using a 4 man rush.

I understand that, but it was when we had one of those lineman getting pressure that it seemed the 3-4 defense helped the back 5 the most. It may be true the OLB was a 4th rusher, but the other 3 could get home some too.

 

[davefrat]

Correct

But here we are with a blossoming thread thinking we can cure CNS's approach (in the area of his expertise, no less)

Although Saban, like anyone else, has/had his flaws as a coach, they were so few and far between that they're almost totally insignificant compared to the insane level of success he had.

No one is perfect, but I think he was about as close to perfection in his given field as anyone can be.

 

[DocCrimson]

The first time I heard about the concept of “in phase” was from Joe Kines during his second stint in Tuscaloosa. At that time, he was a holdover from Mike Price’s staff and working under Mike Shula.

Kines’ explanation was pretty much all the points that have been described in this thread. The bottom line is that if the DB is not perfectly in phase with the WR, and looks back for the ball before the WR does, the distance between the two increases and with it the chance of a completion.

Tangentially related, I will be interested to see if we can cut down on the DPI penalties that have plagued us for several years now. Admittedly incompetent SEC refs haven’t helped, but I don’t think we can lay the issue wholly at their feet. It seems to me that a lot of them have been beaten DBs trying to prevent a completion. They’re out of position to do that within the rules, and have to commit interference.

I always enjoy your posts, gtgilbert. Do you have any thoughts on why we’ve seemed to get way more than our share of DPI calls for a significant period of time?

One of these days, I will be able to hear Kines' name and not immediately think the words "We just gotta stop that Inside Trap."

Today is not that day.

 

[DocCrimson]

If I recall correctly, Fernando Bryant said as much many years ago...rather give up 15 yards than a TD.

My best friend and I always called him "Fernando The Interferer" in college.

 

[gtgilbert]

My best friend and I always called him "Fernando The Interferer" in college.

Even so, he had a pretty successful 10 year run in the NFL, so had to have been doing something right.

 

[bamaslammer]

I just think Saban's techniques require élite talent and we haven't always had that. I also feel receivers were very good at high pointing against us. Almost to the point of it being meaningless that the DB was in position because they weren't going to contest for the ball. I think it's gotten better at times and worse at times over the last 17 years.

The other thing is Alabama has not been getting picks in a long time. Some of that has to do with how offenses have changed though.

 

[bamamc1]

There was an article that went in depth into not only DPI, but overall penalties against Alabama. The author did some pretty in depth statistics into average number of penalties our opponents had in games not against us versus against us and also penalties our opponents, opponents has against our opponents, versus what we had against us. Long, long story short is that despite all the bellyaching we hear about the refs being in our pockets, it data and statistical analysis shows that the refs are much, much less likely to call penalties against our opponent when they play us, versus the opponents others games and much more likely to call penalties against alabama, than against our opponents opponents. It's like the refs hold alabama players to a higher standard, so if it's close to in doubt call it against alabama, and unless it's totally obvious, don't call it against our opponent. The analysis proved that it was well outside of any type of margin of error or possible standard deviation, well outside.

How else in the world could it be that not one single time in his last season at Bama was did Will Anderson draw a holding penalty? Seriously, one of the best pass rushers in NCAA football in the last 10 years and he was never ONCE held across and entire season? Really? Dude went on to have 10 sacks as an NFL rookie and not a single OT ever grabbed more jersey than they should have in college. Stuff like that just isn't possible

So I guess it comes down to; were the Refs biased against Alabama because of Alabama, or because of Saban? If the former, we'll probably still get more than our fair share of flags against us across the board, if the latter, maybe we'll see something different.

Back to DPI though, others have mentioned we might play more zone, and that's certainly true of both how USA and UW played, and that can help reduce DPI since guys aren't playing press/man quite as much. The question is if USA and UW were running more zone because they just didn't trust the CBs in man. If that's the case and with the athletes bama has, they could use man coverage more than they have in the past.

Great post. I'll add to your Will Anderson: Tennessee blocked both Anderson and Dallas Turner the entire game in 2022 without a holding call. OK, whatever.

 

[BamaSully]

He would frequently say as much. Once they’re in a position to get beat, multiple others haven’t done their jobs, they’re literally the last line of defense. We would see the few times it would happen and pretend it’s a pattern or a weakness.

Fan griping about DB play is near the top of the list of my pet peeves from the Saban era

Amen. Easily one of the best DB coaches of all time. He happened to be too good to only be a “position coach” but that never made him any less of an absolutely top shelf DB coach. We consistently had excellent DB play. The defense is a unit and they succeed and fail as a unit. It ain’t always the DBs fault when a deep pass is completed.

It is an interesting study in human behavior that something can be really good but it if ain’t perfect we will find a way to pick it apart and complain. I am probably just as guilty as the next guy in some areas.

Back to the OP. I do expect with the new staff and with the talent they have to work with that we will see more aggressive blitzing with “all eyes on the QB” zone coverage behind it.

 

[BamaSully]

One of these days, I will be able to hear Kines' name and not immediately think the words "We just gotta stop that Inside Trap."

Today is not that day.

I recently searched for that interview on YouTube just so I could show my 18 year old son who eats, drinks, and breaths all sports but was not old enough to remember that era. He laughed really hard.

 

[mlh]

Back in the day, when I was playing (roughly 100 years ago) we were taught to always keep the receiver in front of you and never turn your back on the QB. Of course, we almost exclusively played zone coverage.

We were also flagged if we so much as touched the receiver unless you had a legitimate play on the ball. There was none of the pushing and shoving and "hand play" that you see today.