CFN: Florida State and the "Rigged" College Football Playoff: Daily Cavalcade

[STONECOLDSABAN]

FSU had a 55th ranked SOS.
There are only 65 P5 teams.

It's like saying if I beat up Children and never lose, I am more deserving to a title fight against a heavyweight than a fighter with a couple of l's on his record. The whole undefeated argument never made sense to me.

 

[hfhmilkman]

A big difference between the NFL and College is that 1/4 of all teams (8 out of 32) make the Playoffs. In CFB, basically ~1/32 of all teams make the playoff (4 out of around 125). In the NFL, there is no "voting" to determine those contenders, as there is in CFB.

Next year in CFB, ~1 out of 10 make the playoffs (12 out of 125).

The question to me is not how many teams make the playoffs but do teams believe they are part of the system. College basketball is perfect because non-blueblood teams feel they can compete. A team that is not from a marque conference has a chance in the tournament. Butler had an opportunity to be the NCAA champion and did not make a couple plays at the end of the game. College basketball will continue to be popular because every good team and fan base of every good team believes they have a shot. No matter what they are on paper, the conference winner get to go to the Big Dance. The also rans get their crumbs.

College football is not college basketball. The nature of the game allows for a larger field. A successful team can be built by identifying a couple under the radar players and filling out with experienced roll players. You can play a couple games in 48 hours. A dominant football team requires dozens of dominant individuals. Put college Cam Newton on a MAC team and Alabama obliterates him. Point taken we can't have a lot of players in a single elimination tournament.

However, the NFL model works because the playing field is level and the playoff selection method is deterministic. If the number one seed loses their star QB at the end of the season, the number one seed is still the number one seed. Example the Philadelphia Eagles.

At minimum, I believe that the conference winner has to be guaranteed a spot in the 12. That means the winner of the Big12, SEC, ACC, and Big10 get in. Have the other conference winners play each other like Div2/3 for a spot. That leaves 7 at large spots. This is not perfect. In my opinion it will restore the illusions and dreams. It also makes all of the bowls relevant. We can use all of those mid Dec bowl venues as playoff games to fill the 12th spot. If every bowl game is a college playoff game, I will watch them all. That means the 5th best team gets an at large bid if they playing the winner of all the other conferences.

Everyone cans still dream.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

At minimum, I believe that the conference winner has to be guaranteed a spot in the 12. That means the winner of the Big12, SEC, ACC, and Big10 get in. Have the other conference winners play each other like Div2/3 for a spot. That leaves 7 at large spots. This is not perfect. In my opinion it will restore the illusions and dreams. It also makes all of the bowls relevant. We can use all of those mid Dec bowl venues as playoff games to fill the 12th spot. If every bowl game is a college playoff game, I will watch them all. That means the 5th best team gets an at large bid if they playing the winner of all the other conferences.

Everyone cans still dream.

THAT is exactly the way the 12-team format is set up...

 

[hfhmilkman]

FSU had a 55th ranked SOS.
There are only 65 P5 teams.

It's like saying if I beat up Children and never lose, I am more deserving to a title fight against a heavyweight than a fighter with a couple of l's on his record. The whole undefeated argument never made sense to me.

I have some problems on how SOS is calculated. Ohio State has a SOS of 11. Michigan is 47. UM and OSU played the same six in division games. I will treat the three games with the West Division as equivalent. The difference comes down to OSU played ND. Now ND was a real game. But its only one game. Yet on a single game one can declare OSU played the Big Boys and Michigan played children. Is this not the difference between Georgia and Alabama? Alabama played Texas and scrubs for nonconference, Georgia played scrubs.

That said, I agree that powerful programs playing patsies is boring. I do look forward to 2024 and much better college football.

 

[STONECOLDSABAN]

https://www.tomahawknation.com/flor...-the-cfp-committee-jordan-travis-mike-norvell

Good lord this is such a manipulative take. This is where we are now. Weaponizing mental health to push an agenda for a game played by 18–22-year-old children.

"its the comittees fault Jordan Travis may be internalizing this as his fault"

This comes across like someone gaslighting their spouse after getting dumped. "You left me so any depression I feel, or actions I take is your fault."

As someone who used to work in the mental health field. I find this to be part of a disturbing trend where people try to further agendas by using mental health as some soap box to get what they want. Because if you disagree with their argument. They can just turn right around and say, "Why don't you care about mental health?? Who doesn't care about mental health????" The fact that this is coming from a supposed "counselor" is even more disgusting.

 

[BamaInBham]

I will put my replies here. I write books because I hate what TWITTER has done to the prose of the nation. It is unlikely that FSU can join the Big10 as FSU is not an AAU University. The Big10 is an academic conference first. The Big Ten would have to change precedent to allow FSU in. There is Nebraska as an outlier. Nebraska lost AAU designation after it joined the Big10. This question is above my pay grade.

My point on the state of college football is being missed. It is not about who gets to feed at the "Big Boy Table". Someone talked about what about Alabama's dreams verses FSU. The consequence for Alabama is they wait a year and they are the favorites next year. A Cincinnati, TCU, MSU, ND, and yes FSU, might be there only shot forever. If that team for that year has no chance ever, what is the point?

This board seems to be chortling at FSU's woes and threats of leaving the ACC. It is not FSU that I am concerned with. The problem in my opinion is every fan base of a team with a chance is rudely aware that their chances of being invited to the dance is ZERO. That means every team that wants to be a "Big Boy" , has to be in the SEC or the Big10.

College football works because this paradox has been perpetuated by delusions and breadcrumbs thrown to the also-rans. If all of the other conferences are frozen out, college football does become the NFL. Its two conferences. Basketball has the tournament. It's beautiful because teams and fans can dream. Butler almost beat Duke. Davidson and Loyola of Chicago made the Final4.

I admit that I am speculating, and this is an opinion. I have no factual basis for my points. And to be honest I would rather be wrong. The NFL guaranteed popularity by guaranteeing a level field in all endeavors. How long can college football guarantee popularity if the act of a game becomes just a ritual for a 100+ programs?

There is an answer, and it is competition. It may be that it is enough for Auburn to take a shot at Alabama or MSU vs UM, or UF verses FSU. Never mind National Championships. Beating your rival may be good enough. Regardless of my long-winded prose, college football may perpetuate in its own paradoxical way.

Despite all of your pontification, IMO, you've obscured the real issue: FSU was given a chance to show that they were a worthy playoff participant and they failed miserably. The reason that they are not in, is not because their starting QB was injured, but because their replacement was awful. He did not have to be as good as Travis, just competent vs a mediocre UL team. Cardale Jones was, FSU's QB was not.

The CFP Committee was patient with FSU, giving them 2 games to show their QBs could perform - neither could. So, according to plainly specified criteria, they made the right choice. A process agreed to by all participants, known by the media and all interested observers and previously exercised in similar circumstances. An undefeated P5 team was never guaranteed explicitly or implicitly.

Next year forward, there will be multiple non-SEC/B10 teams guaranteed a likely undeserved spot in the playoff system. GUARANTEED. So, the "dreamers" can still dream.

The fact that Alabama (Texas is rarely mentioned) was near the point of controversy gave full license to any and all to resort to sentimental musings, vent their rage or simply whine. All reasonable people, and there are many, saw it for what it was and supported the CFPC's courage and wisdom. They are also delighted that they won't have to watch an overrated (we hope) Mich drag a dreary FSU through the mud.

 

[BamaInBham]

The question to me is not how many teams make the playoffs but do teams believe they are part of the system. College basketball is perfect because non-blueblood teams feel they can compete. A team that is not from a marque conference has a chance in the tournament. Butler had an opportunity to be the NCAA champion and did not make a couple plays at the end of the game. College basketball will continue to be popular because every good team and fan base of every good team believes they have a shot. No matter what they are on paper, the conference winner get to go to the Big Dance. The also rans get their crumbs.

College football is not college basketball. The nature of the game allows for a larger field. A successful team can be built by identifying a couple under the radar players and filling out with experienced roll players. You can play a couple games in 48 hours. A dominant football team requires dozens of dominant individuals. Put college Cam Newton on a MAC team and Alabama obliterates him. Point taken we can't have a lot of players in a single elimination tournament.

However, the NFL model works because the playing field is level and the playoff selection method is deterministic. If the number one seed loses their star QB at the end of the season, the number one seed is still the number one seed. Example the Philadelphia Eagles.

At minimum, I believe that the conference winner has to be guaranteed a spot in the 12. That means the winner of the Big12, SEC, ACC, and Big10 get in. Have the other conference winners play each other like Div2/3 for a spot. That leaves 7 at large spots. This is not perfect. In my opinion it will restore the illusions and dreams. It also makes all of the bowls relevant. We can use all of those mid Dec bowl venues as playoff games to fill the 12th spot. If every bowl game is a college playoff game, I will watch them all. That means the 5th best team gets an at large bid if they playing the winner of all the other conferences.

Everyone cans still dream.

Why are you whining about this, this year? Most college teams who were willing to schedule good competition have had a chance at their "dream". They were not guaranteed a spot, as there were only 4, but they had a legitimate chance, according to how the season played out. FSU, even as they are currently constituted, would have made it many years, but this year was an anomaly, with chalk holding the last 6 or so weeks of the season. Next year, conferences that IMO, have no business in a playoff are guaranteed a spot and your egalitarian dreams will be fulfilled to some degree.

You've not declared your allegiance to this point, but my guess is that you are someone who does not care for Alabama, and this year's development has provoked your caring sentimentality. Your logic is IMO, deeply flawed.

This is not a rigged system, except in the sense that it leans in favor of merit, as it should, thus the best programs usually prevail.

 

[Con]

Why are you whining about this, this year? Most college teams who were willing to schedule good competition have had a chance at their "dream". They were not guaranteed a spot, as there were only 4, but they had a legitimate chance, according to how the season played out. FSU, even as they are currently constituted, would have made it many years, but this year was an anomaly, with chalk holding the last 6 or so weeks of the season. Next year, conferences that IMO, have no business in a playoff are guaranteed a spot and your egalitarian dreams will be fulfilled to some degree.

You've not declared your allegiance to this point, but my guess is that you are someone who does not care for Alabama, and this year's development has provoked your caring sentimentality. Your logic is IMO, deeply flawed.

This is not a rigged system, except in the sense that it leans in favor of merit, as it should, thus the best programs usually prevail.

Michigan Fan, it was somewhere on one of these threads.

 

[STONECOLDSABAN]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1734380883610907064

FSU fans did complain, They didn't like any of the facts. Fans do indulge in conspiracy theories. They did act unhinged. Fsu wasn't the first or last team to be undefeated to get left out. Being undefeated was never the end all criteria for getting in.

Stop using the words gaslighting lady. You don't know what it means.

 

[davefrat]

FSU had a 55th ranked SOS.
There are only 65 P5 teams.

It's like saying if I beat up Children and never lose, I am more deserving to a title fight against a heavyweight than a fighter with a couple of l's on his record. The whole undefeated argument never made sense to me.

 

[rolltide7854]

https://www.tomahawknation.com/flor...-the-cfp-committee-jordan-travis-mike-norvell

Good lord this is such a manipulative take. This is where we are now. Weaponizing mental health to push an agenda for a game played by 18–22-year-old children.

"its the comittees fault Jordan Travis may be internalizing this as his fault"

This comes across like someone gaslighting their spouse after getting dumped. "You left me so any depression I feel, or actions I take is your fault."

As someone who used to work in the mental health field. I find this to be part of a disturbing trend where people try to further agendas by using mental health as some soap box to get what they want. Because if you disagree with their argument. They can just turn right around and say, "Why don't you care about mental health?? Who doesn't care about mental health????" The fact that this is coming from a supposed "counselor" is even more disgusting.

This must have been written by someone who thinks you shouldn't keep score so as not to make the losing team feel bad.

 

[cbi1972]

This must have been written by someone who thinks you shouldn't keep score so as not to make the losing team feel bad.

 

[rolltide7854]

That's a blast from the past.

 

[dWarriors88]

Florida AG launches investigation into CFP’s exclusion of FSU: ‘I know injustice when I see it’

What are they expecting to uncover, and what are they hoping to achieve here? Have the Florida politicians not got any actual work to do? If I were the CFP committee, I'd ban all Florida teams from ever making the playoff after this over reaction.

 

[cbi1972]

I'd ban all Florida teams from ever making the playoff after this over reaction.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

The whole undefeated argument never made sense to me.

Really?

You're telling me you haven't seen a single post on this board whining about 1966????

(I'm about half kidding btw).

I'm fine with a one-loss team over an unbeaten in the playoff with a substantial difference in SoS, but college football arguments are no different than the most common ones found on the NS board on the two forbidden subjects - and with the same amount of elasticity and 180-degree flips depending upon what "my side" is.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

https://www.tomahawknation.com/flor...-the-cfp-committee-jordan-travis-mike-norvell

Good lord this is such a manipulative take. This is where we are now. Weaponizing mental health to push an agenda for a game played by 18–22-year-old children.

"its the comittees fault Jordan Travis may be internalizing this as his fault"

This comes across like someone gaslighting their spouse after getting dumped. "You left me so any depression I feel, or actions I take is your fault."

As someone who used to work in the mental health field. I find this to be part of a disturbing trend where people try to further agendas by using mental health as some soap box to get what they want. Because if you disagree with their argument. They can just turn right around and say, "Why don't you care about mental health?? Who doesn't care about mental health????" The fact that this is coming from a supposed "counselor" is even more disgusting.

I'm going to reiterate - Florida State did not give a damn about this argument WHEN IT WAS WEST VIRGINIA!!!!

And all their "but that was 30 years ago" doesn't change the facts (seriously - I'm engaging some brain dead people on Twitter who lack self-awareness).

Florida State lost head-to-head to Notre Dame and had the same number of losses.
Florida State lost, West Virginia didn't.

USING FLORIDA STATE LOGIC...they shouldn't have the 1993 national championship.

I loved this one - "there wasn't a playoff committee then."

No, you moron, there were VOTERS who DID NOT MEET who applied the same arbitrary criteria.

The only mental health cases I'm seeing are the FSU fans, who probably need a Foot Locker spree for their rage.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

An excellent summary. Most of it I do not disagree with. I will iterate my concern is not on FSU.

Just to be clear, I understand (I think) what you're saying. FSU in this instance is just an example, it has nothing per se to do with FSU.

What I disagree with you and others is that fans of also rans should know their and fate accept it.

That's probably a bit of an overstatement, but suffice it to say that when Purdue takes the field in September, they aren't thinking national championship. They're hoping to make a little noise, maybe upset one or two of the big boys, and get a nice bowl game nobody will watch.

As someone who reads but rarely posts on boards that is not what I see in September. Perhaps that is not the case for the saddest of teams. Perhaps there is an expectation if they got in, they would have no chance. They just want a shot to be in the dance if they perform. Like I said before. Give them their illusion and they will continue to dream. By relying on administrators who know nothing about football, it is obvious that TCU is going to be treated as a MAC team even if they run the table.

Except TCU got in the playoffs last year without even winning a conference championship, which we were all assured was an important accomplishment. Don't get me wrong, I think a conference championship requirement is cumbersome anyway, nor do I fault them or the committee. But it was kind of amusing to hear years prior to the playoff how important it was, and it only took them 3 years to go Emily Litella ("Never mind!").

And yes, TCU fans talked about getting back to the college playoffs at least for one week.

But TCU has hovered around the periphery for years. They completed an unbeaten season in 2010 with a Rose Bowl win and then were ranked #3 heading into the final game in 2014. TCU may not be Alabama, but they're not Iowa State or Cal, either.

If we want a deterministic method, do not depend on administrators who know nothing about football. Let's do it right and have the 20 odd big boys play each other NFL/AFL style.

Much like with the "let's set aside these bowl games and have a playoff," we have to remember it's not actually that simple even if we'd like it to be.

Then there is no doubt. Everyone else can play MAC football. Let's not pretend they belong if they can never have really belonged.

If Mississippi State can go through an SEC schedule unbeaten or with one loss and win the conference championship game, I'm 100% sure they would make a four-team playoff. The problem is they just don't have the resources, recruits, or realistic chance of this happening. What they did in 2014 - particularly for that school - was nothing short of incredible. But we also saw what happened when they were in a pressure cooker every week. Eventually - and far too early - it blew them apart.

I would rather the Cinderellas' get a chance.

They have a chance - in the sense that if they:
a) schedule some decent foes
b) win football games
c) have a few breaks

they can at least be in the tournament. Cincinnati pulled it off and so did TCU.

I wouldn't put Florida State in the same category myself, not that you are.

I think it's great that TCU had a shot and was not shut out by an administrator because on paper they were supposed to have no shot or money could be made if a higher profile was worth more money. They made it to the Championship. That can never be taken away. Don't zero in on about any grudge with FSU. Its every team that puts it together for one year that now doubts if they will get any chance, even if that chance is a mirage.

Except the brutal realities were:
a) TCU was in more by process of elimination than anything else
b) The refs hosed Michigan, and I'm not one who makes that argument, but they did
c) TCU showed the limits of Cinderella - she can get to the ball, but the carriage always turns back into a pumpkin when the clock strikes midnight

College football is a beautiful mystery. Keep explaining how the midi-chlorians works makes it mundane. Then it becomes what it really is. Minor league football for the real Big Boys on Sundays.

Quite frankly, a sport I've followed for 46 years I find more detestable by the day.
And for some reasons tangential to what you cite.

 

[JayBama_in_PCOLA]

View attachment 39163

Go Gaga! Lol

Being down here on the Gulf Coast has been fun!

 

[Cruiser]

I Googled "Seminole meaning of Tallahassee"; it translated to " Land of the butt hurt crybabies"