A fair point - but also exactly why they should have been AHEAD of Oregon in the rankings.
Of course, one can easily argue the Alabama took enough out of them to lose the OU game, too. But whatever.
Who exactly did Oregon beat?
CFN: Florida State and the "Rigged" College Football Playoff: Daily Cavalcade
- Thread starter crimsonaudio
- Start date
A fair point - but also exactly why they should have been AHEAD of Oregon in the rankings.
Of course, one can easily argue the Alabama took enough out of them to lose the OU game, too. But whatever.
Who exactly did Oregon beat?
Verbose myself, I don't mind this, and I concur with you regarding the bumper sticker mentality of Twitter discussions, although yes, there are limits.
I know you're new here so you cannot possibly know this, but this issue HAS been addressed on the board overall by me. If I'm reading you correctly, you're right that there's a lot of illusion involved, but here's a brutal reality for you since I covered this several years ago: since 1936, only 29 teams have won national championships in what I would call the "recognized" categories of AP/UPI/BCS/CFP. No team since Florida in 1996 has won their FIRST national championship, so every single winner since then has been a repeat champion; if Alabama had gone 0-6 in the national title games they'd won under Saban, not a single team that beat us would have won their first title. In fact, since Florida became the last to do it, the only teams to make the championship game that could have added to that overall number are Virginia Tech and Oregon (twice).
When you cut through the programs who won championships long ago either under completely different circumstances or flukes that only happened because there was a poll split at the top (like 1990 and 1991), there are only about 15 teams every year who can begin the season with a realistic chance of thinking "we might be in the picture at the end of the year."
When Bill McCartney's unbeaten Colorado team wilted and lost to Notre Dame at the end of the 1989 season, he was bothered by the fact you rarely get a chance to win a national championship. The next year, Colorado set a goal: win the Big 8 and win the Orange Bowl - achievable goals. He noted that you CANNOT plan to win a national championship because there are way too many variables involved and in this sense CFB more resembles the glory days of winning a single NASCAR race, where you hope everything works out and you do what you can to put yourself in position to hope you can close the deal.
TCU did win a national championship back in the Davey O'Brien days, but they cannot realistically look at any season with that as a goal. Alabama kinda upset the applecart with that becoming the stated goal when Coach Bryant arrived - and won 3 in 5 years - but that's not reasonable for most schools.
That's because FSU:
a) was invited to the join the SEC back in 1990
b) refused it by saying they didn't want to join a conference
c) joined the ACC and became the Cosmo Kramer class karate champion
d) had a legendary coach admit he dodged the SEC due to the brutality of schedule
We suspected as much when they ducked out back in 1990. Same with Miami. It's no accident their glory days suddenly ended the way they did. When you can't cherry pick your spots and make sure you have a week off before each of your brutal games - go look very closely at the 1986 Miam schedule. They had two tough games - Oklahoma and Florida State - and a week off before each of them when they other team played a game. They pulled that same ruse time and again where RARELY did Miami play two decent teams in a row.
The chuckling at FSU is the residue of 33 years of them lying about why they avoided the SEC. Had they joined the conference, we wouldn't be having this conversation because they'd be a 7-5 also-ran.
But this is already known. Trust me, the fans of Minnesota or Mississippi State never give any thought to "I think we can win the national title this year," they just hope for a 10-win season and a great bowl game.
Yeah, but you left out the part where the also-rans called all the shots from 1951 until the Supreme Court ruled the NZAA was violating antitrust laws. They had the numbers and could prevent anything from happening by virtue of their numbers - but then it was still, "Hey, send us a check!"
Boise State brought this out in 2010, when they'd cry hysterically about how all the big teams were afraid of them but out of one side of their mouths, they wanted to be treated like a Blue Blood - but out the other, they wanted to be paid like they were Mercer.
They needed to pick a lane, they tried to straddle the middle, and the big boys told them to go home.
And that gives the game away: we're back to the fantasy of football's "Bad News Bears," something that has never happened and never will due to the brutality of the game. Why did Butler almost beat Duke? Largely because when you have a sport where 4 of the starters play together for four years, they build chemistry while Duke has become this one-and-done factory along with the other basketball powers.
The brutal reality is that there shouldn't be any more than 64 teams max at the top level of college football. Nobody wants to say that, but it's the truth. And that's only because the 15 teams that have a shot at the title need to fill out their schedules.
Bear in mind, the NFL holds an equal draft that is designed to create parity. Unless we want to limit the 5-stars a team can sign, this isn't going to happen.
The problem with all this is that at the end of the day, we're still talking about ALLEGED student athletes. The whole reason payments to players had to be hidden is because of the obvious advantage a Texas or Alabama would hold over an Iowa State or Georgia Tech.
I know you're new here so you cannot possibly know this, but this issue HAS been addressed on the board overall by me. If I'm reading you correctly, you're right that there's a lot of illusion involved, but here's a brutal reality for you since I covered this several years ago: since 1936, only 29 teams have won national championships in what I would call the "recognized" categories of AP/UPI/BCS/CFP. No team since Florida in 1996 has won their FIRST national championship, so every single winner since then has been a repeat champion; if Alabama had gone 0-6 in the national title games they'd won under Saban, not a single team that beat us would have won their first title. In fact, since Florida became the last to do it, the only teams to make the championship game that could have added to that overall number are Virginia Tech and Oregon (twice).
When you cut through the programs who won championships long ago either under completely different circumstances or flukes that only happened because there was a poll split at the top (like 1990 and 1991), there are only about 15 teams every year who can begin the season with a realistic chance of thinking "we might be in the picture at the end of the year."
When Bill McCartney's unbeaten Colorado team wilted and lost to Notre Dame at the end of the 1989 season, he was bothered by the fact you rarely get a chance to win a national championship. The next year, Colorado set a goal: win the Big 8 and win the Orange Bowl - achievable goals. He noted that you CANNOT plan to win a national championship because there are way too many variables involved and in this sense CFB more resembles the glory days of winning a single NASCAR race, where you hope everything works out and you do what you can to put yourself in position to hope you can close the deal.
TCU did win a national championship back in the Davey O'Brien days, but they cannot realistically look at any season with that as a goal. Alabama kinda upset the applecart with that becoming the stated goal when Coach Bryant arrived - and won 3 in 5 years - but that's not reasonable for most schools.
That's because FSU:
a) was invited to the join the SEC back in 1990
b) refused it by saying they didn't want to join a conference
c) joined the ACC and became the Cosmo Kramer class karate champion
d) had a legendary coach admit he dodged the SEC due to the brutality of schedule
We suspected as much when they ducked out back in 1990. Same with Miami. It's no accident their glory days suddenly ended the way they did. When you can't cherry pick your spots and make sure you have a week off before each of your brutal games - go look very closely at the 1986 Miam schedule. They had two tough games - Oklahoma and Florida State - and a week off before each of them when they other team played a game. They pulled that same ruse time and again where RARELY did Miami play two decent teams in a row.
The chuckling at FSU is the residue of 33 years of them lying about why they avoided the SEC. Had they joined the conference, we wouldn't be having this conversation because they'd be a 7-5 also-ran.
But this is already known. Trust me, the fans of Minnesota or Mississippi State never give any thought to "I think we can win the national title this year," they just hope for a 10-win season and a great bowl game.
Yeah, but you left out the part where the also-rans called all the shots from 1951 until the Supreme Court ruled the NZAA was violating antitrust laws. They had the numbers and could prevent anything from happening by virtue of their numbers - but then it was still, "Hey, send us a check!"
Boise State brought this out in 2010, when they'd cry hysterically about how all the big teams were afraid of them but out of one side of their mouths, they wanted to be treated like a Blue Blood - but out the other, they wanted to be paid like they were Mercer.
They needed to pick a lane, they tried to straddle the middle, and the big boys told them to go home.
And that gives the game away: we're back to the fantasy of football's "Bad News Bears," something that has never happened and never will due to the brutality of the game. Why did Butler almost beat Duke? Largely because when you have a sport where 4 of the starters play together for four years, they build chemistry while Duke has become this one-and-done factory along with the other basketball powers.
The brutal reality is that there shouldn't be any more than 64 teams max at the top level of college football. Nobody wants to say that, but it's the truth. And that's only because the 15 teams that have a shot at the title need to fill out their schedules.
Bear in mind, the NFL holds an equal draft that is designed to create parity. Unless we want to limit the 5-stars a team can sign, this isn't going to happen.
The problem with all this is that at the end of the day, we're still talking about ALLEGED student athletes. The whole reason payments to players had to be hidden is because of the obvious advantage a Texas or Alabama would hold over an Iowa State or Georgia Tech.
Last edited:
@hfhmilkman
This rather long thread that I compiled a few years ago covers - sometimes in substantial detail - every national championship since the first AP poll vote in 1936. It goes through such things as how the polls used to be very unorganized, how Southern teams could for a long period of time be in the hunt until the very last vote but then suddenly find themselves on the short end of the outcome every single time, Auburn's 1957 ballot stuff that changed how the poll voting was done, and so much more. It covers a plethora of disputed poll votes - and includes me actually taking a position against a couple of favorable outcomes against my own team.
An Evaluation of National Championships 1936-2013 | TideFans.com
This rather long thread that I compiled a few years ago covers - sometimes in substantial detail - every national championship since the first AP poll vote in 1936. It goes through such things as how the polls used to be very unorganized, how Southern teams could for a long period of time be in the hunt until the very last vote but then suddenly find themselves on the short end of the outcome every single time, Auburn's 1957 ballot stuff that changed how the poll voting was done, and so much more. It covers a plethora of disputed poll votes - and includes me actually taking a position against a couple of favorable outcomes against my own team.
An Evaluation of National Championships 1936-2013 | TideFans.com
You do write books…on a football board.ðŸ˜Â
I do not understand your sentence. You accuse me of being elitist in thinking a fan base would hope its team has a chance at winning? That is not elitist but egalitarian. We may agree to disagree on the appropriate structure of college football. But I am on a loss on how wanting to have a hope and not just accept my place in the pecking order is "purely elitist"
I don't know about you. But my dream even if not an expectation prior to every season is to play to win a championship. If it is impossible this year, the expectation is the long game. I have watched professional franchises at the bottom. The goal is still to win. It might take a decade before that franchises succeeds, or they have to rebuild and try again. When it clears my team can't win this year, I am still rooting because I am thinking for next year. Even if its decades, so be it. Thinking that everyone dreaming of winning is part of sport is elitist?
Do you really believe that a sport which spans so many schools with such diverse resources is fair? It isn't. Life isn't. The NCAA tried to create a level playing field, and failed. Why? Because some programs are just better, and they attract the best coaches, and the best coaches attract the best players. That is the way it is, was, and always will be.
There is nothing fair about sports. It is a meritocracy. Only a handful of teams have a chance to win a championship in a given year. The rest are playing for pride and love of the game.
An excellent summary. Most of it I do not disagree with. I will iterate my concern is not on FSU. What I disagree with you and others is that fans of also rans should know their and fate accept it. As someone who reads but rarely posts on boards that is not what I see in September. Perhaps that is not the case for the saddest of teams. Perhaps there is an expectation if they got in, they would have no chance. They just want a shot to be in the dance if they perform. Like I said before. Give them their illusion and they will continue to dream. By relying on administrators who know nothing about football, it is obvious that TCU is going to be treated as a MAC team even if they run the table. And yes, TCU fans talked about getting back to the college playoffs at least for one week.
If we want a deterministic method, do not depend on administrators who know nothing about football. Let's do it right and have the 20 odd big boys play each other NFL/AFL style. Then there is no doubt. Everyone else can play MAC football. Let's not pretend they belong if they can never have really belonged.
I would rather the Cinderellas' get a chance. I think it's great that TCU had a shot and was not shut out by an administrator because on paper they were supposed to have no shot or money could be made if a higher profile was worth more money. They made it to the Championship. That can never be taken away. Don't zero in on about any grudge with FSU. Its every team that puts it together for one year that now doubts if they will get any chance, even if that chance is a mirage.
College football is a beautiful mystery. Keep explaining how the midi-chlorians works makes it mundane. Then it becomes what it really is. Minor league football for the real Big Boys on Sundays.
Sir, Florida state won a national championship in 2013, why do you keep saying it’s impossible?
We’re introducing a 12 team playoff format next year. The “impossible†argument is out the window.
You are too zeroed in on FSU. FSU is going to leave the ACC for either the Big10 or SEC. My argument is if the intent is to have a healthy set of conferences, there has to be hope that the other conferences can play. If FSU and Clemson leave the ACC, is not every remaining ACC team, just another "Liberty". The technocrats will still pick a three loss Big10/SEC team over the new "Liberty" every time. NIL is going to accelerate this trend. Any player who wants to transfer for money and the bigger spotlight is going to leave the "have not" conferences or the "have not" teams. The rich get richer, and the poor become irrelevant. This may or may not be a bad thing. Good luck trying to stop change. Just saying this is what I see happening. Stop worrying about FSU. If FSU can't beat you, they are going to join you.
with the direction this is going, we need an upper division between 40 and 60 teams. A middle division with another 40 to 60 teams. And then a bottom third with the remaining teams.
Each with their own playoffs. Each with their own Champion. And every 3 to 5 years, some teams drop to a lower division, some teams rise to a higher division.
So some schools have the ability to eventually move up provided they meet certain criteria. Attendance, facilities, NIL minimums.
Therefore, teams, like Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wake Forest, SMU, Cal, Stanford, can play in the same division as: Liberty, James Madison, Wyoming, Fresno State, etc
I don't get what you're saying anymore I guess. Because I thought your entire stance was It was shameful Alabama got the spot over FSU. Now you're talking about Liberty University.
It's been this way in terms of College Football for a long time, and if you're just now picking up on that truth then buddy buckle up, the NCAA prez is about to introduce a new subdivision within D-1, I guess it's D-0, where players will be paid a salary. So exactly what Cajun Crimson was eluding too.
Last edited:
They haven't been invited by either conference yet. They could both still say "nah that is ok". The SEC doesn't even need them and the B1G requires AAU, so little ole fsu might find out they are stuck with the ACC or go independant.
Did Michael Penix stay at Indiana to play for pride and love of the game? How about Bo Nix? He could have been face planted one more time if he remained at Auburn. So much for Aurburn pride. I began my thread by stating that by definition that college football is not fair. You are preaching to the choir. You are still missing the point, which is subtle. I will say one more time and perhaps give up. I never said football should be fair. What I am saying is in order for college football to remain as is, the perpetuation of the illusion that it is fair needs to remain. Everyone can have their cake and eat it to if they are willing to give crumbs to the mice. Else the model will collapse. We are already observing the symptoms. All bowl games used to be important. Now only those involved in the NC matter. An increasing number of good players on the "have not" teams are being poached by the teams with resources. The conferences are dying. if the ACC, Big12, and every other conference not the Big10 can't, were going to get a British style Premier league. The 100 odd programs that don't count really will no longer count. The fact that Auburn battled is what college football is about. But even Auburn needs a few good players to have a chance to bushwack. In the future any decent player developed by Auburn is going to go somewhere else for big dollars. Auburn will just become a scrimmage before the real game.
Those guys are playing for NFL cash. I am talking about all of the others. The many thousands of others.
There’s another thread that talks about how we became Bama fans. I’m a little curious about you book length answer on that. You clearly have lots of opinions and believe them all to be unwaveringly correct,so I’m curious where the passion (maybe for Bama) comes from.
A big difference between the NFL and College is that 1/4 of all teams (8 out of 32) make the Playoffs. In CFB, basically ~1/32 of all teams make the playoff (4 out of around 125). In the NFL, there is no "voting" to determine those contenders, as there is in CFB.
Next year in CFB, ~1 out of 10 make the playoffs (12 out of 125).
Last edited:
So the CFP matchups would be the same as it is now. So what is he griping about...?
Auburn's problems are of their on makings. They have meddlers (a few dudes with big pockets that can't help themselves and have created the mess they are in). We were not without our own problems many years ago and went through our own rough patch for a time. Success is application of wisdom that has learned from it's mistakes and made corrections. Successful programs are rewarded for their endevors. Some people mistake this as elitism, or unfairness to those that haven't figured out their own problems YET. This argument goes back to your egaliltarian view that many have that also applies to many other aspects of life. Life is not fair, will never be fair, unless we make it the most boring life that anyone would ever want to live.
Trending content
Latest threads
-
-
-
-
-
ESPN: Week 14 Anger Index: Why Notre Dame deserves the benefit of the doubt
- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0
-
ESPN: Top 5 of CFP unchanged; Ducks leapfrog Ole Miss
- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0