Chik-Fil-A Thread

[bamachile]

I'm sure the pastors frustrate themselves because they are not perfect either. Many try their best to be saints, but in reality are sinners just like the rest of us.

Every way you can fail, I can fail. I can get too proud, too loud, too stubborn, or too rebellious, just like anyone else. The proper perspective for a pastor is one of a fed beggar telling a hungry beggar where he got his bread...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Because it came up again recently and I can't recall previous responses, I have an honest question for Christians who believe homosexuality is not an entirely personal preference (i.e., there's a genetic or other component one is born with that predisposes him/her to homosexuality):

How could homosexuality be a sin if it was endowed by their creator from birth? Are there other instances where God would disproportionately set a people up for failure/eternal damnation?

According to scripture homosexuality, along with other sinful attributes, is a manifestation of the "sinful nature". In other words "man" is born with a nature that is slanted toward sinful acts. It craves it. The sinful nature "craves" certain behaviors.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God -Galatians 5:19-26

Our natural desire since the fall of man is to sin. But given that we are made with a choice, a free will, we have a choice to act upon these desires or not. That is where we become responsible and held accountable. Homosexuals who use the platform of "I was born like this so it must not be wrong." are off base according to scripture. According to the Bible WE ALL "WERE BORN LIKE THIS". "Like this" meaning it is easier, to the point of being "natural" to carry out these attributes of the sinful nature. So that platform, according to the Bible, is no excuse.

If you want to see this played out in a real life example. Next time you have an opportunity to observe kids playing. Especially babies/toddlers. Notice that they don't have to be taught to be selfish. They don't have to be taught to "not share", to "hit", to go into fits of rage when they don't get their way. They do it quite naturally. Why?

 

[Rasputin]

Because it came up again recently and I can't recall previous responses, I have an honest question for Christians who believe homosexuality is not an entirely personal preference (i.e., there's a genetic or other component one is born with that predisposes him/her to homosexuality):

How could homosexuality be a sin if it was endowed by their creator from birth? Are there other instances where God would disproportionately set a people up for failure/eternal damnation?

Auburn Fans is the only example I can think of. Nobody in their right damn mind would choose to be a fan of the barn on their own, so it must be endowed by God, and boy does that set them up for failure in life!

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

According to scripture homosexuality, along with other sinful attributes, is a manifestation of the "sinful nature". In other words "man" is born with a nature that is slanted toward sinful acts. It craves it. The sinful nature "craves" certain behaviors.

Our natural desire since the fall of man is to sin. But given that we are made with a choice, a will mind you, we have a choice to act upon these desires or not. That is where we become responsible and held accountable. Homosexuals who use the platform of "I was born like this so it must not be wrong." are off base according to scripture. According to the Bible WE ALL "WERE BORN LIKE THIS". "Like this" meaning it is easier, to the point of being "natural" to carry out these attributes of the sinful nature. So that platform, according to the Bible, is no excuse.

I understand the concept of "sinful nature," but sexuality is something at the core of your innate identity. I don't think or at least hope you're not implying that we are all born with the same tendency towards homosexuality, because I think anyone who's been on this earth a while knows that's not true. To put my question a different way:

Why would God make one's path to heaven so incredibly difficult, if not impossible, (e.g., one born as a homosexual) while making other's not so (e.g., the heterosexual majority)?

I'm confused as to how a Christian might reconcile this with the other messages of the Bible.

 

[92tide]

If you want to see this played out in a real life example. Next time you have an opportunity to observe kids playing. Especially babies/toddlers. Notice that they don't have to be taught to be selfish. They don't have to be taught to "not share", to "hit", to go into fits of rage when they don't get their way. They do it quite naturally. Why?

i think that type behavior manifests itself in young throughout the animal kingdom

 

[Jessica4Bama]

I understand the concept of "sinful nature," but sexuality is something at the core of your innate identity. I don't think or at least hope you're not implying that we are all born with the same tendency towards homosexuality, because I think anyone who's been on this earth a while knows that's not true. To put my question a different way:

Why would God make one's path to heaven so incredibly difficult, if not impossible, (e.g., one born as a homosexual) while making other's not so (e.g., the heterosexual majority)?

I'm confused as to how a Christian might reconcile this with the other messages of the Bible.

The path to Heaven is the same for everyone. It isn't harder for one person to get saved than the next person.

I will be honest. I do not believe homosexuals are born that way. I'm not going to say people choose to be gay because I have never been inside the brain of a gay person, but my Father would not make some people gay and some not when His word is against it. Just my opinion. We can debate this until the end of times, but there are some things that do not make sense. I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I most certainly do not hate them.

 

[TideEngineer08]

i think that type behavior manifests itself in young throughout the animal kingdom

As does homosexuality.

I don't think anyone believes animals have "choice" as we humans do. They live out their lives based on the instincts that are coded in their genes. Yet, we see homosexual behavior in many species.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I understand the concept of "sinful nature," but sexuality is something at the core of your innate identity. I don't think or at least hope you're not implying that we are all born with the same tendency towards homosexuality, because I think anyone who's been on this earth a while knows that's not true. To put my question a different way:

Why would God make one's path to heaven so incredibly difficult, if not impossible, (e.g., one born as a homosexual) while making other's not so (e.g., the heterosexual majority)?

I'm confused as to how a Christian might reconcile this with the other messages of the Bible.

Not all aspects of the sinful nature are carried out in every single person's life. The one who doesn't "struggle" with or have an issue with "fits of rage" (anger) very well might struggle with being completely obsessive about themselves (selfishness) to the point of opening up the door for other sins. Just because I do not have born desires of homosexual tendancies doesn't make me any more "innocent" before God. It also doesn't make my "path" to heaven any easier either. For it is by grace through faith you are saved, not by works so any man can boast or brag.

I'll get a bit personal here and open myself up. I have an issue with my temper. Always have. I still do today. I have to fight internal desires to not blow a gasket on a lot of things but rather practice patience and mercy. It is very hard for me. It wasn't taught by my parents, it wasn't a "learned behavior". I was raised in a peaceful, church going, God fearing home. But It has always come quite natural for me to lose my temper. But I am without excuse. It is what I believe about that sin that is the key. The Bible says not being able to control your temper is a sin. But do I think it is a sin or do I just prop up the "Well I was born this way." excuse? According to the Bible I'm without excuse just like the homosexual. It is one thing for a homosexual to believe their desires toward another man is sinful, but yet still struggle. It is entirely different to believe homosexuality is "okay" and proceed to gladly live it out. Now this is all under the assumption of how this lines up with the Bible. If one doesn't use the Bible as their moral authority then this discussion is meaningless.

 

[Rasputin]

The path to Heaven is the same for everyone. It isn't harder for one person to get saved than the next person.

I will be honest. I do not believe homosexuals are born that way. I'm not going to say people choose to be gay because I have never been inside the brain of a gay person, but my Father would not make some people gay and some not when His word is against it.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

 

[bamacon]

At this point however I am done giving them money as I don't like where the profits are being directed. I am sure if I looked into I would feel the same about many places I do business.

Like GE? I hate some things they do but really admire the thousands of dollars worth of 4 year scholarships they giving out through the Reagan Foundation.

http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Company/Highlights-Fact-Sheets

WinShape Foundation was founded more than 20 years ago by Truett and Jeannette Cathy. Under the WinShape Foundation umbrella, there are several programs, including WinShape Homes®, which currently operates 11 foster care homes in Georgia, Tennessee and Alabama. The WinShape College Program℠ at Berry College in Rome, Georgia, is a co-op program offering joint four-year scholarship funding to incoming freshmen of up to $32,000. WinShape Camps℠ offers boys and girls summer programs at the college, which will be attended by more than 15,000 campers in 2012.
Additionally, WinShape also operates the WinShape Retreatâ„ , which offers a sequestered setting for marriage support and counseling and other gatherings on the Mountain Campus of Berry College. Held at WinShape Retreat, WinShape Marriageâ„  aims to help married couples by offering intervention for couples in crisis, preparation for engaged couples and enrichment for those interested in growing their marriage.
WinShape Wildernessâ„  is dedicated to using adventure to equip people to experience real change, not just in a team setting, but also through personal transformation. WinShape Wilderness is an outdoor adventure program that facilitates experiential learning for all audiences in ropes course settings as well as canoeing, rock climbing and backpacking venues.
Finally, WinShape Internationalâ„  was founded in January 2005 with a mission to mobilize leaders to transform young people and communities around the world.
Chick-fil-A Leadership Scholarship Program: Chick-fil-A separately offers $1,000 college scholarships to certain qualified franchised Operator Restaurant employees, a Chick-fil-A tradition that has awarded over $30 million in scholarships.

 

[bamacon]

Because it came up again recently and I can't recall previous responses, I have an honest question for Christians who believe homosexuality is not an entirely personal preference (i.e., there's a genetic or other component one is born with that predisposes him/her to homosexuality):

How could homosexuality be a sin if it was endowed by their creator from birth? Are there other instances where God would disproportionately set a people up for failure/eternal damnation?

You could also ask why would a creator make things that would immediately make themselves extinct as a species if left to their true sexual desires.

 

[Jessica4Bama]

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

This is true, but if that rich man accepted Jesus Christ he would enter the kingdom of God. There will be more people in Hell than in Heaven. Sad but true, but it isn't Jesus' fault. He already did what He needed to do.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

The path to Heaven is the same for everyone. It isn't harder for one person to get saved than the next person.

I will be honest. I do not believe homosexuals are born that way. Children are pure when they are born.

My question was directed at those who do acknowledge something innate differs homosexuals (whether "out" or not) from heterosexuals.

The question again arose in my mind after an incredibly interesting conversation with a homosexual Mormon (now former) about his childhood. It really got to me hearing of his struggling to control his every behavior from the time he hit adolescence and the realization that his attraction was only for the male sex. Just made me think what a cruel joke that would be for a Creator to play, and why would someone like me necessarily have it easier from a theological perspective?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

Taken way, way, way out of context. Read what the rich man says to prompt Jesus' response.

 

[Jessica4Bama]

My question was directed at those who do acknowledge something innate differs homosexuals (whether "out" or not) from heterosexuals.

The question again arose in my mind after an incredibly interesting conversation with a homosexual Mormon (now former) about his childhood. It really got to me hearing of his struggling to control his every behavior from the time he hit adolescence and the realization that his attraction was only for the male sex. Just made me think what a cruel joke that would be for a Creator to play, and why would someone like me necessarily have it easier from a theological perspective?

Gotcha. Sorry. I am going to go back being a spectator.

Maybe.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

My question was directed at those who do acknowledge something innate differs homosexuals (whether "out" or not) from heterosexuals.

The question again arose in my mind after an incredibly interesting conversation with a homosexual Mormon (now former) about his childhood. It really got to me hearing of his struggling to control his every behavior from the time he hit adolescence and the realization that his attraction was only for the male sex. Just made me think what a cruel joke that would be for a Creator to play, and why would someone like me necessarily have it easier from a theological perspective?

You don't.

 

[92tide]

Taken way, way, way out of context. Read what the rich man says to prompt Jesus' response.

i think much of the bible is taken way, way, way out of context, but that of course is just mho

 

[Jessica4Bama]

Taken way, way, way out of context. Read what the rich man says to prompt Jesus' response.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
[h=3]With God All Things Are Possible[/h][SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

[Bamabuzzard]

i think much of the bible is taken way, way, way out of context, but that of course is just mho

I know you're not going to discuss it because I know your approach on message boards with these type topics. But I will ask anyway.

What do you truly believe about God, Jesus and salvation and what do you use to get those beliefs? I know you are of the Christian faith. But I rarely come across Christians who really don't put much stock into the Bible. Not trying to be insulting mind you. I just notice you've said several times that the Bible has "issues" with it.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

You could also ask why would a creator make things that would immediately make themselves extinct as a species if left to their true sexual desires.

Very rare to hear evolution used to support an argument for a Bible-based way of thinking.

But if you want to get all evolution-y and science-y we can do that too. Homosexuality could be the Creator's way of controlling population, protecting resources for the world at large, or gene sequences for homosexual tendencies could occur in higher frequency for those with disease genes, which would reduce the incidence of these disease genes being passed on.

Homosexuality may occur at some natural rate within species for the aforementioned reasons - I dunno. I was focused on the theological perspective.