Chik-Fil-A Thread

[skrayper77]

You got that right. Sticky is putting it mildly. I don't have all the answers. I wish I did. I do my best to study the Bible, its history, the culture at that time, and prepare myself the best I can to be able to give a reason/"defense" as to why I believe the way I believe. But in the end I have to understand that the Bible's primary theme is salvation for eternity and the way to that salvation. Though it does give specifics about certain things and other things it simply does not. It lays down principles as the only way to address many of the things that aren't specifically mentioned.

In my personal opinion I think many people (both Christians and non-Christians who like to use the Bible to debate Christians) use the silence of the Bible on a certain topic as a platform to say that means the Bible condones something. I tell people that when the Bible doesn't specifically address something then you have to move to principles that are commonly taught throughout the Bible to put it up against.

I appreciate you putting up with my questions and debates - I know it can be hard to debate politics or religion and remain calm because it can feel like one is attacking the other's belief (I promise, that is most certainly not my goal)

I used to study the Bible - I know it quite well - but what the Bible taught and what I observed where very much in diametric opposition to each other. From my interpretation of the Bible, the vast majority of Christians are anything but, and to me it felt like the most egregious of evils that some of these horrible people would spend an eternity in Heaven while very good, very honest people who did everything in their power to be wonderful human beings would burn in Hell. I had a hard time equating a "just and loving God" with "eternal damnation for a few scant years on planet Earth". That seemed neither Just nor Loving, in my view, and while I get the whole "who are we to question God" we also have to view the truth "we are created in his image" along with an understanding of "good" and "evil". If we truly believe that we have an understanding of those concepts, and that God created us in His image, then how can something we would consider an evil act if orchestrated by man be considered a just and loving act when orchestrated by God?

I'm not citing passages, I'm stating how my beliefs evolved. Ultimately I had to look into myself and wonder:
A.) Is there a God?
B.) If there is one, could he really be responsible for these things? (I'm not even referring to things that happen on Earth)

I decided that I had to follow my own heart and my own beliefs. It can make family reunions a tad awkward if religion comes up, so I just tend not to chime in.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I appreciate you putting up with my questions and debates - I know it can be hard to debate politics or religion and remain calm because it can feel like one is attacking the other's belief (I promise, that is most certainly not my goal)

I used to study the Bible - I know it quite well - but what the Bible taught and what I observed where very much in diametric opposition to each other. From my interpretation of the Bible, the vast majority of Christians are anything but, and to me it felt like the most egregious of evils that some of these horrible people would spend an eternity in Heaven while very good, very honest people who did everything in their power to be wonderful human beings would burn in Hell. I had a hard time equating a "just and loving God" with "eternal damnation for a few scant years on planet Earth". That seemed neither Just nor Loving, in my view, and while I get the whole "who are we to question God" we also have to view the truth "we are created in his image" along with an understanding of "good" and "evil". If we truly believe that we have an understanding of those concepts, and that God created us in His image, then how can something we would consider an evil act if orchestrated by man be considered a just and loving act when orchestrated by God?

I'm not citing passages, I'm stating how my beliefs evolved. Ultimately I had to look into myself and wonder:
A.) Is there a God?
B.) If there is one, could he really be responsible for these things? (I'm not even referring to things that happen on Earth)

I decided that I had to follow my own heart and my own beliefs. It can make family reunions a tad awkward if religion comes up, so I just tend not to chime in.

LOL! I hear ya. The last few years I've studied the Bible more than I ever have. I've had things happen to me and my family that shook our world. My natural reaction was to find comfort and encouragement. So being a Christian I gravitated to my source for that and that was the Bible and LOTS and LOTS of prayer. In doing so I did find comfort and encouragement but before I got to that point I uncovered things about God in the Bible that shook my faith and what I had been taught for years. So I dug further and further. Today I have a much different view of God (God of the Bible) than I ever have. My faith in Him is actually stronger today than before. Even though some of the realities I learned along the way made me dang near physically sick at times. I found my encouragement, my peace and my spiritual and emotional strength to walk through this life and the problems it seems to throw at me on a daily basis.

 

[Crimson1967]

Re: Adam Smith fired after hassling Chick-Fil-A employee

Video: Adam Smith fired after hassling Chick-Fil-A employee on company's anti-gay marriage stance​

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...mpanys-anti-gay-marriage-stance#ixzz22Uv1haTP​

Glad to see that jerk got fired. He was hoping for a reaction and when the much more mature young lady ignored his childishness, he got nothing but a pink slip.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

Secondly from a moral standpoint, love fulfills the old testament rules. Loving your neighbor as yourself meant you by default are fulfilling the old testament law. For example, if I loved my neighbor as myself and if treated my neighbor as I wanted to be treated then I wouldn't need a "law" or "rule" that tells me not to steal his mule. Love fulfills (not abolishes) the old testament law.

What if your neighbor is a homosexual couple? What you state here would seem to be one of those principles to which you referred.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

Most political views ultimately root from someone's personal beliefs which is closely tied if not the same as one's moral beliefs. Whether we're talking about abortion, the welfare system, right to bear arms etc. Many of the things debated and voted upon in our government are done so with the foundation of one's personal and moral belief about said topic. So what you're actually saying SHOULD GIVE ME the right to do things that I'm currently not able to do by our laws.

Most people in this country vote and take a stand on political issues based on their personal and moral beliefs. So now we're down to telling one group "If you draw your moral beliefs from any sort of religion then you need to separate from that but everyone else that doesn't draw their moral beliefs from a religion doesn't." That's basically what you're saying.

This is a classical philosophical debate. It was raging around the birth of our nation, and I'm sure Tidewater would have quite a bit to add to this point.

I would also like to again point out that the Bible was used to support slavery for years and years in our nation, yet we as a nation eventually realized what was naturally right and what was wrong.

 

[Tide1986]

So where's the push to make adultery illegal and punishable by jail time?

Alternatively, let's push making "lack of reading comprehension" illegal and punishable by jail time.

 

[skrayper77]

Alternatively, let's push making "lack of reading comprehension" illegal and punishable by jail time.

Then Auburn wouldn't be able to field a football team.

That's not an issue; just an extra benefit

 

[lincoln_osiris]

Support local stores and restaurants. Most of them can't afford to donate to anything, good or bad. The only hate group locals can afford right now is... I hate that you are getting less hours... I hate that your tips have dropped so far that you can't pay your rent... I hate we may be closing soon because business is so slow.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tide1986]

There's a difference between governing using your morals in the defense of others, and imposing your morals upon others...That's very different from saying, "I will protect you from murder because my religion tells me it's bad".

Given your line of thinking here, you should be able to understand and even appreciate why some religions choose not to recognize or promote same-sex marriage.

 

[Tide1986]

It wasn't just sacrificing. It was keeping the list of rules and regulations. Paul pretty clearly stated that any attempt to go back under the law, was to say that Jesus wasn't enough, that something had to be added to it. Again... how I interpret it.

Does that make the old rules wrong, or does it just mean that you can't obtain salvation by simply following the rules?

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

All that said. Yes God does create us. Everyone should be treated with love and kindness just the way they are because that is just the way God created them. I was created with heterosexual desires. That does not mean that I can go out and sleep with every woman that is sufficiently hawt (TF term just for fun) and will allow me the pleasure to get what my desire would say was a fulfilling life.

I personally do not see close personal relationships between two men or two women as being the problem. Sexual relationships outside of the framework God created is consistently a problem.

This seems to be an argument for allowing homosexuals to be married, e.g., that they could be intimate within an accepted framework.

 

[skrayper77]

Given your line of thinking here, you should be able to understand and even appreciate why some religions choose not to recognize or promote same-sex marriage.

Vast gulf between a religion not recognizing or promoting same-sex marriage, and then trying to get laws made that keep EVERYONE from being able to have it.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

I havent read all post here because, dang, there are a lot of them. I just wish we could all get to a point where we all live and let live. Christians, Muslims, Democrats, Republicans, gay,straight, black, white...Why cant we all just focus on ourselves and not worry about what the next person is doing,and quit being so dang sensitive about everything. I have no problems with what the chik-fil-a dude said. But I dont see why gay people had such an issue with it. If the gay community didnt make such a big deal out of it, there wouldnt have been a need for so many to feel like they had to have chik-fil-a yesterday. I think that was just dumb.

I just dont understand the need so many people have to try to make their cause my cause. I may agree whole-heartedly with a position. But Im not going to stick it in anybody elses face to try to make them accept it.

I think advocacy groups had to make a big deal out of what Cathy said so that we are having the very discussion we've had over the past few days. I also think the fact that so many groups claimed their actions on Wednesday were in favor of free speech, as opposed to anti-gay-marriage, is evidence of how far we've come as a nation on this subject and how some within those uber conservative realize they might be on the wrong side of this.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

So then serial killers are also endowed by their creator and should be blameless as well? I don't think they choose to become serial killers as at least there is no proof. Most begin showing signs of sociopathic behavior while still children similar to homosexuals.

Before anyone makes the jump to "I'm equating gay and serial killer".. please do not. That is not what I'm saying at all. Only using your statement/question regarding how a creator endows certain behaviors at birth. Nothing else.

As for me, I do not think that God is instilling any particuar behavior in each individual upon birth.

I say you leave the birth canal and you take your chances. :smile:

Completely different, as a serial killer most definitely brings harm on others while a homosexual marriage does not. Furthermore, a sociopath's mental illness may manifest itself in externally non-violent ways.

 

[MattinBama]

Completely different, as a serial killer most definitely brings harm on others while a homosexual marriage does not. Furthermore, a sociopath's mental illness may manifest itself in externally non-violent ways.

Homosexual marriage has kept bamagrits from eating Oreo's ever again. That's true harm on others.

 

[TideEngineer08]

Does that make the old rules wrong, or does it just mean that you can't obtain salvation by simply following the rules?

It makes them obsolete. No longer necessary. And yes, I also believe it means obtaining salvation via following them - in any way - is impossible and quite frankly an affront to God.

Also, for further clarification, I believe these rules and regs have been twisted through the years by constant rewriting and re-translating often by political forces with the goal of controlling a population in mind which makes them further dubious to follow or recognize.

 

[Tider@GW_Law]

I have read through this whole thread. For me, it comes down to something that has already been mentioned. My conviction is based on the Bible, God's Holy Word, and what God says. In Genesis 2:24, God said, "for this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and be united with his wife and they will become one flesh." This is God instituting marriage between a man and a woman only. This is God's plan. If I am a believer of God and what he says, it does not matter what I think is right, it matters what he thinks. With that said, if you disagree with God, I suggest you take it up with him. If you choose not to do that, you have made your choice. I will be the first one to tell you I am the chief sinner in my life. None of you can top me on that. However, Jesus came to die for my sins. I have by faith in him accepted that and follow him the best I can everyday. That does not make me or you better than anyone else. For me that also means that I try to please him by being obedient to him daily. Jesus also said in Matthew 19 concerning marriage, "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female," and said, "for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh." So they are no longer two but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." Jesus supported the idea of Biblical marriage. I do not see any reference to a man being married to a man or a woman being married to a woman. If you think that is ok with God, go ahead and believe that but I simply refuse to believe that. You are free to disagree. Jesus said, "if you love me, you will obey my commands." If you choose not to follow him, then fine with me. The Leviticus and Romans passages have been mentioned concerning homosexuality. In 1 Corinthians 6:9, the Bible states that God listed people who live these habitual lifestyles would not inherit the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is where he lives and where he lives is heaven. He includes "homosexual offenders" along with some others. Again, I did not write that but that is God's decision. And again in the context of the Scripture, this is about lifestyles chosen to live. If God says this is wrong, then if I follow him and what he says, I have to by faith believe that. I may not understand why...I do not have to know the scientific evidence or whatever someone wants to bring up. For the Christian, what God says goes. If I as a follower of Christ choose to follow him, then I have no choice but to believe him and what he says. If you choose not to follow God and His Word, accept Christ's sacrifice for your sin, then that is your choice and you are certainly free to make it. I personally believe it is that simple. But I do know this...there are going to be a lot of people (and already have been) who are going to be surprised 5 seconds after they die. The Bible says "every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord." If you disagree with that, you are free to do so.

Again, I think this reliance on certain literal interpretations of every word of an English translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation, all of which interpreted to meet the ends of those doing the translating, that had been passed down orally for hundreds of years before that is a bit much and should offend the critically-thinking brain the Creator endowed us with to separate us from the animals. This was my latter point in my post a few pages back.

Things get lost in translation. The Creator's manifestation in nature is firsthand, and some things just offend our innate sense of right and wrong.

Is it that far fetched to think a word or idea that really was intended to mean something more general like "partner" or "spouse" was taken at some point in the past 2000 years to mean "wife" because anything else was not understood by the man passing the narrative on to the next village - cue the bit from Monty Python's Life of Brian.

I ask again, what differentiates this from things Christians have rejected from the Bible like slavery and wife-beating?

 

[Jessica4Bama]

I have read through this whole thread. For me, it comes down to something that has already been mentioned. My conviction is based on the Bible, God's Holy Word, and what God says. In Genesis 2:24, God said, "for this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and be united with his wife and they will become one flesh." This is God instituting marriage between a man and a woman only. This is God's plan. If I am a believer of God and what he says, it does not matter what I think is right, it matters what he thinks. With that said, if you disagree with God, I suggest you take it up with him. If you choose not to do that, you have made your choice. I will be the first one to tell you I am the chief sinner in my life. None of you can top me on that. However, Jesus came to die for my sins. I have by faith in him accepted that and follow him the best I can everyday. That does not make me or you better than anyone else. For me that also means that I try to please him by being obedient to him daily. Jesus also said in Matthew 19 concerning marriage, "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female," and said, "for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh." So they are no longer two but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." Jesus supported the idea of Biblical marriage. I do not see any reference to a man being married to a man or a woman being married to a woman. If you think that is ok with God, go ahead and believe that but I simply refuse to believe that. You are free to disagree. Jesus said, "if you love me, you will obey my commands." If you choose not to follow him, then fine with me. The Leviticus and Romans passages have been mentioned concerning homosexuality. In 1 Corinthians 6:9, the Bible states that God listed people who live these habitual lifestyles would not inherit the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is where he lives and where he lives is heaven. He includes "homosexual offenders" along with some others. Again, I did not write that but that is God's decision. And again in the context of the Scripture, this is about lifestyles chosen to live. If God says this is wrong, then if I follow him and what he says, I have to by faith believe that. I may not understand why...I do not have to know the scientific evidence or whatever someone wants to bring up. For the Christian, what God says goes. If I as a follower of Christ choose to follow him, then I have no choice but to believe him and what he says. If you choose not to follow God and His Word, accept Christ's sacrifice for your sin, then that is your choice and you are certainly free to make it. I personally believe it is that simple. But I do know this...there are going to be a lot of people (and already have been) who are going to be surprised 5 seconds after they die. The Bible says "every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord." If you disagree with that, you are free to do so.

My feelings exactly. Excellent post! Thank you!

 

[92tide]

B

I ask again, what differentiates this from things Christians have rejected from the Bible like slavery and wife-beating?

sometimes wayne brady still has to come in and keep the ladies in line though

 

[BamaFlum]

For those that say God is love, which He is-pure perfect love, he is also holy and just. Because he is holy, he CANNOT stand sin. Yes it sounds unfair to the world to say a loving God can allow people to hell, but Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life NO ONE comes to the father except through me." God gave a way to salvation and it is through Jesus Christ his son and many more people will not be in heaven because they believe that a loving God couldn't send anyone to hell.