Coaching fit.

[bamaga]

This is an uncomfortable truth some aren't willing to admit. It's usually newer posters who probably became Bama fans during CNS's tenure, but it's true.

Somebody said 2023 was the luckiest CNS had at Bama. I've warmed to that thinking too. How that team beat Georgia and won the SEC is beyond me. Some of the same characteristics of this year's OL. That might show up one game and disappear for 5. They showed up against Georgia in the SECCG and that's how we won it. Plain and simple. It was like CNS had one last rabbit to pull out of his coaching hat. Good for him. Left with an SEC trophy that he valued very highly. But the slippage started after the 2020 season and hasn't been corrected yet.

But that team was also a whisker from playing for and maybe winning a national championship.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

To that point, DeBoer's first FBS job as an OC (so no Grubb) saw their running game fall over 20 places to become ranked in the 100s. Same running back from the previous season, that's DeBoer's offense, not Grubb's... last year, ratios were actually the same if you remove the QB scrambles, no Grubb in sight.

Are you cherry-picking stats?

Did their passing game improve...?

 

[KrAzY3]

Are you cherry-picking stats?

Did their passing game improve...?

I have not cherry picked, I've simply gone year by year.

They're posted elsewhere by the way, last time I totaled it up, even if you include last year where the running QB heavily skewed things and put the numbers into the 40s, if you average it out, DeBoer's offenses rank in the 80s in terms of rushing. I was saying all this stuff when Alabama was still hot, I was saying this stuff last year as a matter of fact.

By the same token, once you remove QB scrambles, you end up, every single year (I said it would happen this year by the way if you want to dig it up, I pointed this all out prior to the season because it's just what his offense does) with ratios of using the running backs that fall in the 30s, so a little over a third of the time they hand off to the running backs. It's predictable, which is why I correctly predicted it. This year, last year, at Washington, etc...

So it's easily identifiable, all there in the numbers, like clockwork pretty much. But if you create a trend you can break it, but it will take some different coaches brought in to address that because it's not in the area of expertise of DeBoer's coaching core.

I will add by the way that some years the running games look better than others, but then when you poke at it you see things like leading rusher is a QB, or second leading rusher is a WR, so it's just never a typical strong running game (he's averaged in the 3s on three occasions I believe) and I literately haven't ever seen a DeBoer game where the running backs really carried the team. It's a change of pace, which rarely ends up in a balanced game.

To summarize, the DeBoer trends are:
Regression in the run game, I think year to year I noted improvement once.
Low averages, I don't think I recall ever see it in the 5s, three different stops in the 3s.
Low ranks, multiple ranks in the 100s, very low average.
Low usage rates of running backs, never in the 40s.
Unorthodox rushers, high use of wide receivers and quarterbacks, simulating a true running game.

Edit: To address what you are getting at, yes there were some positives and I made a big post addressing this. The passing game does improve generally speaking, offense does improve overall. But my point to that is he basically developed a strategy to win some games at a school with limited talent, to mask their weaknesses and he's applying that to a team that has all the talent they need, masking weaknesses he basically created by gutting the running game.

 

[alabama mike1]

IMO, I am more than willing to give CKD another year to right the ship. I, along with many others on here and elsewhere have complained about changes in the assistant coaches.

Here are things that jump off the charts to me: CRG kills more drives with dumb play calls, we insist on long developing pass plays, we do not use slants, quick hitters, screens or passes to the short middle against two deep coverage (a week area), our OL is horrific. Where are any adjustments? We do not have a RB in house that will be drafted or sign as a free agent. I am not 100% sold on Ty either. So, I suggest changes on offensive side of the coaching staff.

Next, I would make sure that CKW know that a soft zone in the SEC does not work. We are better when we apply pressure. Our DB’s have to play tighter coverage! How many times this season have we given up a first down when it’s 3rd and half a mile? Too many!

Finally, our special teams is a lot to be desired. Punting has been an issue all season. We continue to catch the ball on kick offs and get nailed before we reach the 20 yard line when a fair catch here would give us better field position. On the flip side, when we are receiving a punt we fair catch the ball and hardly ever try to return a punt.

We are not a strong or physical team. Strength and conditioning has to be much better. A definite change here needs to take place.

The AD needs to have a serious talk with CKD and insist he make changes and then CKD needs to ask several coaches to leave immediately. If we do not have the players on roster that can play and contribute, we need to be looking hard at the portal.

I can handle getting beat but I cannot handle the lack of preparedness, focus, intensity and lack of competitiveness we have displayed in games the past two years. The decline started in the last year or two under CNS and has continued under CKD. Rant over.

 

[22Musso22]

Let's get Cignetti!.......

 

[smith5753]

I don't think this is fair at all to make a thread comparing coaches from past. This doesn't feel right to do that. This off season is critical and I believe CKD already has plan to make some changes within staff and the roster via transfer portal. But for now, This isn't appropriate thread, to discuss... Now if CKD decides to move on from Alabama at some point in next few years, then it's worthy to have thtis discussion.

I personally think it’s okay for us to be critical after what we saw against Florida State, Georgia round 2, and that garbage yesterday. We never had a chance in any of those games. Pushed around at the line of scrimmage. I think a good point of reference is Pete Golding just found a way to slay the mighty bull dogs after we made them look like shoe in national champs.

I think you have to be proud of any 11 win season, but if we’re honest, we could have just as easily been 5-6 this season like auburn and South Carolina then the wheels are coming off.

Maybe this isn’t the exact roster Deboer needs but it’s a talented roster. The trouble is the team and the coaching staff are soft. We need a new offensive and defensive line coach, running backs coach, and I would prefer a new offensive coordinator. My biggest fear is Deboer and Grubb being conjoined at the hip and Deboer refusing to make a change there. I believe he should get one more season to prove he can adjust to physical football in the SEC but another repeat of this mess and we should cut bait.

 

[smith5753]

Let's get Cignetti!.......

I feel like that ship has sailed. How crazy would it be if Pete Golding rattled off two or three national champions over the next 5 years

 

[KrAzY3]

Let's get Cignetti!.......

At this point I think it's clear he's who a lot of people thought they were getting with the DeBoer hire. I saw talk about how DeBoer did less with more, and a lot of praise of his success at lower levels, but not sure they kicked the tires enough.

DeBoer's NAIA success came at a school that was already a national championship program under the previous coach. So he did well, but didn't build anything, he inherited.

Fresno State was the second best team in the Mountain West, second only to Boise St. in conference titles.
Washington was second in the Pac-12 in conference champions, heck I was at their playoff game against Alabama.

So, I think he's a smart coach, but he stepped into good situations and produced results. Cignetti really took programs and elevated them.

Having said that, that last game matchup basically made the whole thing impossible anyway. Alabama wins, they don't want Cignetti anyway. Cignetti wins and he becomes untouchable. That ain't gonna happen unless Cignetti stumbles a bit this year and next and DeBoer stumbles even more.

Clearly Cignetti was a better hire, but I still despite my complaints prefer DeBoer over a lot of other names that have been and were tossed around.

 

[81usaf92]

I personally think it’s okay for us to be critical after what we saw against Florida State, Georgia round 2, and that garbage yesterday. We never had a chance in any of those games. Pushed around at the line of scrimmage. I think a good point of reference is Pete Golding just found a way to slay the mighty bull dogs after we made them look like shoe in national champs.

I think you have to be proud of any 11 win season, but if we’re honest, we could have just as easily been 5-6 this season like auburn and South Carolina then the wheels are coming off.

Maybe this isn’t the exact roster Deboer needs but it’s a talented roster. The trouble is the team and the coaching staff are soft. We need a new offensive and defensive line coach, running backs coach, and I would prefer a new offensive coordinator. My biggest fear is Deboer and Grubb being conjoined at the hip and Deboer refusing to make a change there. I believe he should get one more season to prove he can adjust to physical football in the SEC but another repeat of this mess and we should cut bait.

The FSU game it looked like we were going to blow the doors off them until they got it a ran it down our throats. It’s the one game you really can say Kane was bewildered all year.

Georgia round 2 I still think is misleading. If we are more healthy we possibly win that game but it’s part of the game.

Indiana it looked great our first drive and their first drive but after Ty fumbled so did we.

Also for all the grief Golding got from us.., the one team he never had a horrible showing against was Georgia. This year in Athens was his only one in 7 games. B

 

[BamaHoopsBoi]

I love how people literally attribute value to wins. Literally nothing else matters to those folks - if you don't win them all, or look awesome in every game, you're a bad hire.

None of these folks look at the team the coach inherited, nor the state of modern CFB recruiting, etc. It's literally all about how dominating you are as a HC - if you're not on all the time, you need to go...

SMH

In that regard, we as a fanbase, are SPOILT. We are never going to see what we saw with Saban EVER again. That’s a tough pill to swallow for a lot of Bama fans. But they’ll have to nonetheless.

 

[denver]

Let's get Cignetti!.......

funny you should ask....if true....he can leave...

Cignetti Triggers ‘Good Faith Market Review’ With Rose Bowl Win

A unique clause in the Indiana coach’s contract means the school is now likely to give him yet another merit-based raise.

frontofficesports.com

 

[OBMS]

But that team was also a whisker from playing for and maybe winning a national championship

I gotta be the old man in the room. Let me take you back to 1989. After 10 games we are 10-0, ranked #2 and riding high and one game away from playing for a national championship. The defense is killing it giving up 104 ypg on the ground. The pass numbers are impressive as well. Only problem was we were the result of our schedule. The devil is always in the detail. 5 opponents averaged 43 rushing yards and the other five averaged 150 with two of those over 200. In the last two games of the year we gave up 394 yards on the ground. We simply could not stop the run even though we looked good all year against bad teams.

Same fools gold this year. 6 of our opponents averaged 65 yds/game. We had something to do with that but mostly it was offensive incompetence. Another 6 averaged 188/game. We cannot stop the run against good football teams.

That '89 bunch had a new offensive coordinator forced on it and produced points at a rate we had never seen before. And because we had been pretty good defensively for the 15 previous seasons we all thought ---look out now. The schedule produced some good memories and some exciting games and offensive performances. But the reality was we just were not very good against tough football teams, we were not physical, we were not mentally tough, and at 10-2, we celebrated a good year. deja vu.

 

[denver]

I gotta be the old man in the room. Let me take you back to 1989. After 10 games we are 10-0, ranked #2 and riding high and one game away from playing for a national championship. The defense is killing it giving up 104 ypg on the ground. The pass numbers are impressive as well. Only problem was we were the result of our schedule. The devil is always in the detail. 5 opponents averaged 43 rushing yards and the other five averaged 150 with two of those over 200. In the last two games of the year we gave up 394 yards on the ground. We simply could not stop the run even though we looked good all year against bad teams.

Same fools gold this year. 6 of our opponents averaged 65 yds/game. We had something to do with that but mostly it was offensive incompetence. Another 6 averaged 188/game. We cannot stop the run against good football teams.

That '89 bunch had a new offensive coordinator forced on it and produced points at a rate we had never seen before. And because we had been pretty good defensively for the 15 previous seasons we all thought ---look out now. The schedule produced some good memories and some exciting games and offensive performances. But the reality was we just were not very good against tough football teams, we were not physical, we were not mentally tough, and at 10-2, we celebrated a good year. deja vu.

I think Womack's scheme doesnt help with the run game...we don't have great DL run stoppers and the LBs seem to be easily pushed aside or out of gap position...happens all the time and was glaringly happening yesterday

 

[JDCrimson]

Well, if I'm CKD, I put my best recruiter on a plane to Europe and tell him to find us 10 Nordic log rollers to play OL and not to come back unless he has lumberjacks in tow.

 

[Bpilktree]

Let's get Cignetti!.......

If Saban doesn’t abruptly retire and instead comes out and says that 2024 will be his last year and everyone falls into place with Indiana still making the playoffs in 2024 I think there is a good chance that Cignetti is the coach we choose.

 

[LeBron47]

Cignetti IMHO did very well with his shopping list in the portal. He did a good old school coaching job with a bunch of three stars that nobody was knocking the door down to get. However in the day and age of NIL how many 4 and 5 * s are going to sign up for his type of coaching? Love his style hate his smart butt attitude. If CKD decided he had enough and rode off into the sunset Lanning, Cristobal, perhaps Kiffin would be my calls … I would leave “google me” for a last nobody wants us phone call.

All this game did for me was turned me into a strong, Oregon, Miami, or Ole Sis fan for the remainder of the 2025 26 CFP… and I don’t want “google me” to lose by a point or two I want his behind planted deep in the ground…

We have had a great year apart from FSU and Google U … CKD will build his way forward! Nobody likes embarrassment on a national stage especially someone of CKDs character and record… “he is down right now but mark by words gentlemen he will win” - Rupp in regards to Coach Paul Bryant in his first year at Kentucky…

I would rather burn the place down than hire a classless bum like Google Me. He does not belong on the sidelines of men like CPB, CGS, CNS, and CKD. Color me unimpressed … Have I been upset with the two losses mentioned absolutely but not to the point I ditch our tradition to go slumming. My wife at rare times irritates me to no end (I know I do her) but I am not headed to a red light district to find someone else either… I have got the best at home. In case you hadn’t noticed CKD was at the top of both Michigan and PSU shopping lists. It should tell you something when others want your coach at tradition rich programs.

RTR!!!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The FSU game it looked like we were going to blow the doors off them until they got it a ran it down our throats. It’s the one game you really can say Kane was bewildered all year.

Georgia round 2 I still think is misleading. If we are more healthy we possibly win that game but it’s part of the game.

Indiana it looked great our first drive and their first drive but after Ty fumbled so did we.

Also for all the grief Golding got from us.., the one team he never had a horrible showing against was Georgia. This year in Athens was his only one in 7 games. B

That was the most physically dominating drive we had all season, literally. The first drive of the season was the best drive all season. That is shameful.

 

[OBMS]

I think Womack's scheme doesnt help with the run game...we don't have great DL run stoppers and the LBs seem to be easily pushed aside or out of gap position...happens all the time and was glaringly happening yesterday

The scheme is what it is. It is what Saban had been trying to get to for several years before he left. It is designed to get pass rush from all spots. Usually can't do that with run stoppers and therefore the change in recruiting strategy. NIL threw that for a loop at about the same time he was figuring it out. Then the 7 on 7 mindset killed the availability of defensive lineman and full sized linebackers and we are where we are. The ability of our fanbase to convince themselves we have top recruiting classes based on all the services that make their money telling you what you want to hear is really wild to me. Recruiting is what it has been for 60 years - much more what you do with the ones you get than which ones you get. The dependence of the game on the portal requires you play that game or be willing to live with the teams that do. Unless something changes in the structure of the game, we may just be stuck for a while as our booster base has let it be known they are much more likely to operate like Clemson than like Ole Miss or Indiana.

 

[CoolBreeze]

After Rose Bowl Humiliation, Has Alabama Become Soft?

There's a lot of speculation on what is next for the University of Alabama's football program. And after the Rose Bowl defeat to Indiana, many are wondering if the Crimson Tide has lost their fastball.

roundtable.io

 

[NorCalTide]

I think Womack's scheme doesnt help with the run game...we don't have great DL run stoppers and the LBs seem to be easily pushed aside or out of gap position...happens all the time and was glaringly happening yesterday

Being on the west coast I only saw the team in person at the Rose Bowl, but what stood out was guys losing their 1 v 1 battles constantly. Sure there are schematic issues, particularly on offense, but the inability to make plays in 1v1 isolations was wild. Missed tackles, poor positioning on defense, etc. Look at the double crossing route for the touchdown by Indiana and both DBs were beaten by 5 yards. Mendoza could have thrown to either corner.

On offense our receivers don't get separation, Indiana's did. Tough for running backs to get going with our o-line play, but Indiana's were running through tackles. The last two touchdowns by Indiana were a great example of this.

Coach Saban said it best at one point when he said he is less worried about the play being called when the game is on the line and more concerned with who is getting the ball. Our guys don't make plays and Indiana's did.

In Coach Saban style I would have TV replays all off season in the facility of our guys getting run through and losing 1v1's this season. Anytime they feel big time, I would tell them to look at the monitors. All of this for the players, while the coaching offices have some significant conversations about how next year looks different for them.