COVID-19 Vaccines and Related Issues Part XIII

ive been here way longer than you and can honestly tell you that N18 and 92 were in the vast minority of posters on this side of the board. This board before 2015 was very lightly moderated and there was some expectation of sharper pushback on one’s opinions. I probably would say this board was overwhelmingly Bush conservative in nature. What changed was that in 2015-18 too many people started bringing Facebook and Twitter conspiracy theories onto the board and started personally attacking people. Eventually over half of the board was suspended or left because they were butt hurt that stricter moderation was needed to maintain some sense of “civility” because it just became uncontrollable chaos.

And you saw me transition from very conservative to "libertarian" to whatever it is I am now.

You saw me transition from not believing in climate change to finally accepting the evidence.

I was knee deep in the conspiratorial and fact rejecting thinking that I now object to, so too often I understand the thought process all too well.

It did take some sharp and factual rebukes to finally set me straight.

Some of those occurred right here.

I remember Mrs. NT18 asking me once well over a decade ago if I had ever considered that the people I was following and believing were lying to me. This was after promised evidence never appeared after multiple assurances that it would and conspiratorial excuses that the evidence was being suppressed in some way. I was hard headed, but that pointed question cut to the heart of the matter.

For better or worse I still have hope for our misinformed friends here and I still respect them or I would never take the time to try to correct them.

That may sound arrogant, but it's just confidence when it comes to the evidence and my understanding of what it actually says.

And still, I am humble enough to seek out newer studies to see what they say (the Royal Society study as an example).

Looking back I am glad that I was called out on my wrongheadedness, but it did hurt my pride at the time and still does.
 
And you saw me transition from very conservative to "libertarian" to whatever it is I am now.

You saw me transition from not believing in climate change to finally accepting the evidence.

I was knee deep in the conspiratorial and fact rejecting thinking that I now object to, so too often I understand the thought process all too well.

It did take some sharp and factual rebukes to finally set me straight.

Some of those occurred right here.

I remember Mrs. NT18 asking me once well over a decade ago if I had ever considered that the people I was following and believing were lying to me. This was after promised evidence never appeared after multiple assurances that it would and conspiratorial excuses that the evidence was being suppressed in some way. I was hard headed, but that pointed question cut to the heart of the matter.

For better or worse I still have hope for our misinformed friends here and I still respect them or I would never take the time to try to correct them.

That may sound arrogant, but it's just confidence when it comes to the evidence and my understanding of what it actually says.

And still, I am humble enough to seek out newer studies to see what they say (the Royal Society study as an example).

Looking back I am glad that I was called out on my wrongheadedness, but it did hurt my pride at the time and still does.
Yeah most of us have changed over the years.

I honestly don’t know what I am these days. I’ve been called everything in the book from a nihilist to an over optimist libertarian. But what I’m definitely not is a Republican or Democrat. I think critically questioning your beliefs is something that really isn’t easy nor is it really fun but it’s necessary for growth.

I think the real problem that Trump really exposed is that the vast majority of people refuse to ever question the long held beliefs of their parents and fight to the bitter end to defend them.

IDK. With the Republican war on education I don’t foresee me voting for a major republican in the near future.
 
Yeah most of us have changed over the years.

I honestly don’t know what I am these days. I’ve been called everything in the book from a nihilist to an over optimist libertarian. But what I’m definitely not is a Republican or Democrat. I think critically questioning your beliefs is something that really isn’t easy nor is it really fun but it’s necessary for growth.

I think the real problem that Trump really exposed is that the vast majority of people refuse to ever question the long held beliefs of their parents and fight to the bitter end to defend them.

IDK. With the Republican war on education I don’t foresee me voting for a major republican in the near future.

I've been called everything but a child of God, as the old saying goes.

And even though we don't agree on every little jot and tittle we do agree on the foundation of seeking truth and not rejecting it to justify our support of a demagogue and holding on to past beliefs.

The war on education is a big enough problem without considering the overriding concern over the war on constitutional representative democracy (or truth, for that matter - alternative facts, anyone?).
 
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This is the perfect visual representation of what's happening here:

1693154674194.png

And this one may be even closer to perfect:

1693154729043.png

Either way, claiming the evidence points one direction when it doesn't - ignoring those with knowledge/understanding - being stubborn in beliefs to the point of disregarding factual evidence.
 
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Yeah most of us have changed over the years.

I honestly don’t know what I am these days. I’ve been called everything in the book from a nihilist to an over optimist libertarian. But what I’m definitely not is a Republican or Democrat. I think critically questioning your beliefs is something that really isn’t easy nor is it really fun but it’s necessary for growth.

I think the real problem that Trump really exposed is that the vast majority of people refuse to ever question the long held beliefs of their parents and fight to the bitter end to defend them.

IDK. With the Republican war on education I don’t foresee me voting for a major republican in the near future.
You come across as a balanced person.
 
If those vaccines really reduce infection 91% the moon is made of green cheese. I totally agree about the severity and length of infection. I’m sure they reduce some, but the number of people I personally know that got vaccinated and then got infected makes that claim sound stupid. I know that would be considered anecdotal, but I’m not buying that statistic.
Ah, the Truthiness response. A classic.

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that the vaccine reduces the chance of infection by 50%. That would have to be the chance of being infected from a single exposure. If you're exposed twice, the odds are only reduced by ~25%. If you're exposed multiple times, your odds go down further. And if you're associated with a student at a school where Covid is running rampant because of lax control measures, your odds go way down.
 
Timely...

My immune system is very slow in returning after my bone marrow transplant...medical personnel says it is due to my age (thanks a lot). Anyway, I have started wearing a mask indoors when around other people. Picking up a pizza the other day a local yokel gave me a funny look -- until I told him I had little or no immune system due to a blood cancer. He literally apologized and wished me the best.

If someone is wearing a mask there is a reason...and it is usually a good one.
 
I was planning on getting this but after now recovering I guess I have to wait a bit


COVID-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 infection
People exposed to SARS-CoV-2
Recent exposure to SARS-CoV-2 is not a contraindication or precaution to COVID-19 vaccination. People with a known or potential SARS-CoV-2 exposure may receive vaccine if they do not have symptoms consistent with SARS-CoV-2 infection; however, people should follow CDC’s post-exposure guidance.
COVID-19 vaccines are not recommended for post-exposure prophylaxis. People should be informed that vaccination is to help prevent severe COVID-19 following future exposures.
People with prior or current SARS-CoV-2 infection
COVID-19 vaccination is recommended for everyone ages 6 months and older, regardless of a history of symptomatic or asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, including people with prolonged post-COVID-19 symptoms.
People with known current SARS-CoV-2 infection should defer any COVID-19 vaccination at least until recovery from the acute illness (if symptoms were present) and criteria to discontinue isolation have been met.
People who recently had SARS-CoV-2 infection may consider delaying a COVID-19 vaccine dose by 3 months from symptom onset or positive test (if infection was asymptomatic). Studies have shown that increased time between infection and vaccination might result in an improved immune response to vaccination. Also, a low risk of reinfection has been observed in the weeks to months following infection. Individual factors such as risk of COVID-19 severe disease or characteristics of the predominant SARS-CoV-2 strain should be taken into account when determining whether to delay getting a COVID-19 vaccination after infection.

Viral testing to assess for acute SARS-CoV-2 infection or serologic testing to assess for prior infection is not recommended for the purpose of vaccine decision-making.
People who received SARS-CoV-2 antibody-based products
People who previously received antibody products (anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma) as part of COVID-19 treatment or post-exposure prophylaxis may be vaccinated at any time; COVID-19 vaccination does not need to be delayed following receipt of monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma. Although some reduction in vaccine-induced antibody titers was observed in people who previously received antibody products, the clinical significance of this reduction is unknown, and the balance of benefits vs. risks favors proceeding with vaccination even considering the possibility of diminished vaccine effectiveness in this situation. Those who received antibody products due to a recent SARS-CoV-2 infection should follow the guidance in the section above.
 
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Well, Mrs. Basket Case and I finally got our turn in the barrel. After 3 1/2 years and all the vaccines we could lay our hands on, we're both going through Covid.

Both of us are fine, and symptoms are abating nicely. We're both out of isolation now, and I have no reason to suspect that this time Wednesday, we won't be fully back to normal. Yes, we're reaping the benefits of vaccination, and are fortunate on top of that.

Still, I thought our story might be of some benefit.

She had the very first symptoms on Saturday the 9th, and I was a day later. Likely I got it from her. Where she got it we don't know, but given the incubation period it was almost certainly before the UTw game, which we attended.

She tested positive late in the day Monday. By the time I got to the clinic, they were closed. I had a really crappy night Monday -- body aches, headache and significant sinus pressure, so when I tested positive first thing Tuesday AM, it wasn't a surprise. We start the adventure with me a day behind her in symptom development.

For symptomatic cases, they count days for isolation from the first day of symptoms, not the day you tested positive. So her Day 0 was Saturday the 9th and mine was Sunday the 10th.

She's already 65, which made Paxlovid an immediate standard treatment. She started that program Monday. I'm just a few months shy of 65, so I didn't get a scrip the day I tested positive. As it turns out, that made a material difference.

For those who may not be familiar, Paxlovid is a 5-day program consisting of two different anti-viral drugs taken as six pills a day -- three pills each morning and three more in the evening. Total of 30 pills over 5 days.

Regardless, that stuff works. Here's why I think so:

After a Monday night that felt like I'd been hit by a Mack truck, I rallied and my symptoms were milder than hers. When I tested positive, they asked about chest congestion, cough, fever, lightheadedness, etc. I had none and told them so. So I didn't initially get a scrip for Paxlovid, and it didn't occur to me to ask for one.

In retrospect, I should have insisted for one on the spot. During the rest of the day Tuesday, and through about noon Wednesday, I slowly deteriorated. Still nowhere near what others have experienced. But got sluggish, general malaise and aches, congestion, etc. Even started to notice some of the, "Covid fog," that you hear about. Finally called and asked for Paxlovid and they called it in immediately. Picked it up just before the pharmacy closed and started the program Wednesday evening.

Experienced an immediate and rapid improvement, which has continued. I actually felt good enough to mow my postage stamp of a yard Friday, and close to normal this morning. Stamina / strength isn't fully back, but it's coming.

Contrast to Mrs. Basket Case. She started Paxlovid the day she tested positive, and ran fever for only one day. Never really even sluggish.

I have no doubt that, if I had insisted on Paxlovid the day I tested, even though I had only mild symptoms at the time, I would have headed off a couple of days of material discomfort.

Lessons:
1. Vaccinations work.
I've had every vaccine and booster available. As bad as I felt Wednesday, I have little doubt I would have been hospitalized if not for them.

2. If you test positive, ask for Paxlovid immediately. In our experience, that stuff works and even if you're vaccinated will help you feel a lot better a lot quicker.

3. Masking is more complicated. Except in unusual circumstances, mainly involving others who are immunocompromised for whatever reason, we haven't masked up in about 18 months.

It's 100% true that if we had been masked whenever Mrs. Basket was first exposed, we might have avoided Covid. But at the cost of masking up every time we leave the house for those 18 months.
- We're healthy
- We have no co-morbidities other than age
- We don't interact with immunocompromised people much, and when we do, we mask.
- We're vaccinated and boosted out the wazoo.

If that combination of circumstances doesn't justify taking off the mask, I don't know that such a justification exists. As in, if those criteria are insufficient, what additional criteria would make it safe to take a mask off, and where would they apply?

There's a certain amount of risk that comes with putting your feet on the floor each morning and standing up. I've taken all available medical precautions. I've accommodated others' limitations without question. I'll continue to get all my shots for Covid, flu, RSV, etc. But having done that, I've done all I'm going to do.

If my or my loved ones' circumstances change, I'll change my position. But barring that, I'm not going to have the default setting for my last years as masked up.
 
Late add to above. There’s a side effect called Paxlovid mouth. It’s a bitter /metallic taste that persists several hours after taking a dose. It gradually fades, then it’s time for another dose, and you start the cycle again.

It’s not horrible, and is a vanishingly small price to pay for the benefit. But it is real, and both of us have it.

Definitely not a reason to forego Paxlovid….just something to be aware of.
 

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