Poll: Donald Trump hush money case - what will the verdict be?

[TIDE-HSV]

Which begs the question: why not just give the jurists a printed copy of the instructions? I've asked the question and apparently written instruction is very common.

Not in New York...

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Not in New York...

Not common or not allowable? If state law allows it, one would think in a case like this, they would at least try to make all the concessions needed to get a verdict that people will believe. When the jury made their second request for a repeat of (part of) the instructions, Merchan was clearly annoyed. Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided.

 

[Go Bama]

Not common or not allowable? If state law allows it, one would think in a case like this, they would at least try to make all the concessions needed to get a verdict that people will believe. When the jury made their second request for a repeat of (part of) the instructions, Merchan was clearly annoyed. Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided.

I’m curious to know how you know Merchan was “clearly annoyed.”

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Not common or not allowable? If state law allows it, one would think in a case like this, they would at least try to make all the concessions needed to get a verdict that people will believe. When the jury made their second request for a repeat of (part of) the instructions, Merchan was clearly annoyed. Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided.

I understand not allowable at all...

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I understand not allowable at all...

I see. Well, that certainly clears things up. If he can't, he can't.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I’m curious to know how you know Merchan was “clearly annoyed.”

I'll have to search my browser history, I guess. There are a lot of people in that courtroom, so I can't give a name to the person making the claim. He didn't make any guesses about whether Merchan was annoyed by the request itself or the implication of what they specifically asked for. This is a believable claim based simply on the fact that Merchan has seemingly spent the majority of this trial in an annoyed frame of mind because OMB couldn't keep his mouth shut.

 

[92tide]

Which begs the question: why not just give the jurists a printed copy of the instructions? I've asked the question and apparently written instruction is very common.

as earle mentioned upthread, they don’t give written instructions in new york

 

[Jon]

as earle mentioned upthread, they don’t give written instructions in new york

there is a guy on Reddit who claims to have formerly worked as a prosecutor in the NY DA office that is saying that giving instructions in NY is allowable but both parties, prosecutor and defense have to explicitly agree to do so. For this reason judges often don't even ask. No idea if this is true or if that question was asked and one party declined

 

[Bazza]

What you see as conspiratorial, I see as timidity and reluctance to take a stand in the presence of "in your face" crime...

That's fine but what really matters, as is often the case in politics, is the optics of the whole thing.

On that note....regardless of how you and I perceive things.......it's just a bad look for those on the left with their nominee tanking so bad in the polls to have his opponent brought to trial at this late date and so close to the election.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

That's fine but what really matters, as is often the case in politics, is the optics of the whole thing.

On that note....regardless of how you and I perceive things.......it's just a bad look for those on the left with their nominee tanking so bad in the polls to have his opponent brought to trial at this late date and so close to the election.

Exactly right. Optics matter more than most people want to care to admit. This is exactly why Trump's ratings went up after every indictment. Now display this alongside the optics of a current president who is looking more and more like a senile muppet with every passing day and you've got the makings of some seriously bad tidings this fall.

 

[Go Bama]

The “optics” should never enter the prosecution’s mind. He either committed a crime or he didn’t. If he did, prosecute him. That is unless you believe some people are above the law.

 

[AWRTR]

Exactly right. Optics matter more than most people want to care to admit. This is exactly why Trump's ratings went up after every indictment. Now display this alongside the optics of a current president who is looking more and more like a senile muppet with every passing day and you've got the makings of some seriously bad tidings this fall.

Senile Muppet, I'm going to have to remember that one. I've heard him called president house plant a few times. I like that one as well.

 

[92tide]

The “optics” should never enter the prosecution’s mind. He either committed a crime or he didn’t. If he did, prosecute him. That is unless you believe some people are above the law.

not to worry, it will be some other shiny object next week. the same hand waving crap has been going on since 2016 and will continue apace

 

[Bazza]

The “optics” should never enter the prosecution’s mind. He either committed a crime or he didn’t. If he did, prosecute him. That is unless you believe some people are above the law.

Optics matter in public opinion. To those who vote on election day. The voters who aren't already in their bunker.

That's where this will make an impact, IMHO.

No matter how it ends up......it's a bad look for the left, IMHO.......

 

[AWRTR]

not to worry, it will be some other shiny object next week. the same hand waving crap has been going on since 2016 and will continue apace

Yes like the Mueller report, the Steel Dossier, the pee tape, and the list goes on and on.

 

[92tide]

Yes like the Mueller report, the Steel Dossier, the pee tape, and the list goes on and on.

bless your heart

 

[AWRTR]

bless your heart

Thanks I needed that.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

The “optics” should never enter the prosecution’s mind. He either committed a crime or he didn’t. If he did, prosecute him. That is unless you believe some people are above the law.

As Bazza pointed out, the optics to which we are referring are the perceptions of the public. While I agree with your point about how things "ought to be" the foibles of human fallibility render this wishful thinking. If prosecutions were being run by A.I. or something, sure. The human element will always be injected into anything and everything: government, religion, society.....nothing is safe from that. If it were, this trial wouldn't be happening in the first place.

 

[Go Bama]

Optics matter in public opinion. To those who vote on election day. The voters who aren't already in their bunker.

That's where this will make an impact, IMHO.

No matter how it ends up......it's a bad look for the left, IMHO.......

Of course, optics matter to public opinion, but they should not matter at all in a court of law.

The only reason the optics are an issue at all is because of the misinformation being spewed by right wing media and what’s on social media. Those who follow credible news sources don’t see the bad optics.

 

[Bazza]

Of course, optics matter to public opinion, but they should not matter at all in a court of law.

The only reason the optics are an issue at all is because of the misinformation being spewed by right wing media and what’s on social media. Those who follow credible news sources don’t see the bad optics.

OK thanks.