ESPN article - Saban and the Bama QB problem

[glorydays1990]

Think deion said it and makes total sense.

Why go out and guess on high school kids. 18 year olds. When you can go get known commodities out of the portal and they are 21-22 year old men?

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, like the elite high school player is still going to get signed. But if you had 3-4-5 holes that you thought had to be covered next season to be successful for your team (whether thats 500 record, beating a rival, or winning the NC) why wouldnt you go out and get that 21-22 year old, that you know can handle college, that you've seen their work on tape?

And like Prime said: Coaches get fired if they cant win in 4 years. So building doesnt always work. people are looking for 2 year flips now, and the portal is the only way to do this.

This is why I'm lost for words at why we are stuck in the position we are QB wise. Saban/Staff had to see this coming a mile away. Plenty of proven QBs in the portal that would have given us a better product than what we are seeing.

 

[CajunCrimson]

Think deion said it and makes total sense.

Why go out and guess on high school kids. 18 year olds. When you can go get known commodities out of the portal and they are 21-22 year old men?

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, like the elite high school player is still going to get signed. But if you had 3-4-5 holes that you thought had to be covered next season to be successful for your team (whether thats 500 record, beating a rival, or winning the NC) why wouldnt you go out and get that 21-22 year old, that you know can handle college, that you've seen their work on tape?

And like Prime said: Coaches get fired if they cant win in 4 years. So building doesnt always work. people are looking for 2 year flips now, and the portal is the only way to do this.

This is why I'm lost for words at why we are stuck in the position we are QB wise. Saban/Staff had to see this coming a mile away. Plenty of proven QBs in the portal that would have given us a better product than what we are seeing.

But doesn’t that model only work until everyone else is doing it? Because then, at that point, the talent is diluted even more.

Glitz is fine until it goes 6-6. That’s why using the portal like he did is not a sustainable model. Because you have to turn over your roster every 1 to 2 years, instead of 3 to 4.

Basketball can do it because you only need 13 roster spots. And that sport is becoming “positionless”

 

[CoolBreeze]

But doesn’t that model only work until everyone else is doing it? Because then, at that point, the talent is diluted even more.

Glitz is fine until it goes 6-6. That’s why using the portal like he did is not a sustainable model. Because you have to turn over your roster every 1 to 2 years, instead of 3 to 4.

Basketball can do it because you only need 13 roster spots. And that sport is becoming “positionless”

Dig it. Lane has been milking the portal as well with about 1400 QBs on the roster. Still mixed results.

 

[glorydays1990]

But doesn’t that model only work until everyone else is doing it? Because then, at that point, the talent is diluted even more.

Glitz is fine until it goes 6-6. That’s why using the portal like he did is not a sustainable model. Because you have to turn over your roster every 1 to 2 years, instead of 3 to 4.

Basketball can do it because you only need 13 roster spots. And that sport is becoming “positionless”

Not if your the biggest fish in the pond. Again you cant build your entire team or program that way. But if you can consistantly get 3-4-5 big impact type guys to fill holes in your program then you'll come out ahead.

Whats the differnece in Alabama winning that 5 star high school kid-- they are out recruiting all the other schools in the country to get him--- rather than winning that top guy out of the portal?

What Deion did was an outlier. Think that is obvious. He wont be able to do that year to year. But getting 3-4-5 impact guys out of the portal shouldnt be.

With our NIL money and name.. i'm utterly shocked we couldnt lure a QB to our program to run it for one year. I would have given Sam Hartman 7 figures to come play for a season and sam would have been a fool to turn it down because he could have parlayed it into a high draft choice if not the highest.

 

[glorydays1990]

Dig it. Lane has been milking the portal as well with about 1400 QBs on the roster. Still mixed results.

Really comparing Alabama football to Ole Miss.

The way to look at is like this:

Lane has used the transfer portal so well, he's taking a perinnall SEC doormat and made them into a consistant top 15 team and a NY6 bowl. He's taken that program to new heights. Thats with what has been rumored as one of the lowest NIL budgets of any team in the sec.

 

[KrAzY3]

Most of us aren’t willing to make those adjustments as fans. I agree that he is likely not willing to make those adjustments at this stage either.

I was adamantly against NIL, I knew that "real" NIL was only going to produce a negligible amount of money for most players (we're talking low 5 figures) but it was Pandora's box when it came to buying players. This is the game now though, and you play it or you lose by default.

But doesn’t that model only work until everyone else is doing it? Because then, at that point, the talent is diluted even more.

The idea is that the strong prey on the weak. Alabama is not in the best position for NIL, but they are still in the top ten for sure. So if they operate from a position of strength, they are going to have their pick from dozens of programs out there if they have their NIL situation sorted out well enough.

Now, obviously you shouldn't need to do it on the scale Colorado did, but I would argue that the portal class each year should be more important than the recruiting class! Think about it, who is going to be more ready to contribute immediately?

Heck, even with the way Saban recruits there are some years where the handful of guys he brought in via transfer have more impact than the true freshman! Now, imagine if he was actually recruiting the portal hard, actually using it like a true weapon not to fill a hole here or there.

That's the new path to success in my opinion because it's buying what you need when you need it. Why wouldn't you? Why would you waste all those resources recruiting kids that generally won't even play for a couple years and if they do you don't know how well they will?

Just look at Xavier Weaver, Colorado brought him as as a veteran wide reciever, a proven commodity, he has more receiving yards than Alabama's top two guys combined. Alabama's top receiver last year had less than 700 yards with a Heisman QB throwing to him.

What about Adonai Mitchell? Texas gets him out of the portal, he scores two TDs on Alabama. Alabama got beat by a transfer QB throwing to a transfer WR. That's how you do it now...

 

[glorydays1990]

I was adamantly against NIL, I knew that "real" NIL was only going to produce a negligible amount of money for most players (we're talking low 5 figures) but it was Pandora's box when it came to buying players. This is the game now though, and you play it or you lose by default.


The idea is that the strong prey on the weak. Alabama is not in the best position for NIL, but they are still in the top ten for sure. So if they operate from a position of strength, they are going to be to have their pick from dozens of programs out there if they have their NIL situation sorted out well enough.

Now, obviously you shouldn't need to do it on the scale Colorado did, but I would argue that the portal class each year should be more important than the recruiting class! Think about it, who is going to be more ready to contribute immediately?

Heck, even with the way Saban recruits there are some years where the handful of guys he brought in via transfer have more impact than the true freshman! Now, imagine if he was actually recruiting the portal hard, actually using it like a true weapon not to fill a hole here or there.

That's the new path to success in my opinion because it's buying what you need when you need it. Why wouldn't you? Why would you waste all those resources recruiting kids that generally won't even play for a couple years and if they do you don't know how well they will?

Just look at Xavier Weaver, Colorado brought him as as a veteran wide reciever, a proven commodity, he has more receiving yards than Alabama's top two guys combined. Alabama's top receiver last year had less than 700 yards with a Heisman QB throwing to him.

What about Adonai Mitchell? Texas gets him out of the portal, he scores two TDs on Alabama. Alabama got beat by a transfer QB throwing to a transfer WR. That's how you do it now...

I agree with most all of this.

We should be looking for 2-3 portal upgrades yearly. Period.

If we can outrecruit the country for 5 stars, we need to start outrecruiting them for the top portal guys. Especially at the key spots.

Still have to recruit at the high school level. But there are always misses there. Just need 3-5 portal guys to fill in the gaps that are always missed due to human error, injury, lack of development, etc

Think of the portal like JuCo. Back in the day you'd go grab a JuCo guy to fill in where a miss was. Now you can go grab em out of the entire country when there is a miss

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I was adamantly against NIL, I knew that "real" NIL was only going to produce a negligible amount of money for most players (we're talking low 5 figures) but it was Pandora's box when it came to buying players. This is the game now though, and you play it or you lose by default.


The idea is that the strong prey on the weak. Alabama is not in the best position for NIL, but they are still in the top ten for sure. So if they operate from a position of strength, they are going to have their pick from dozens of programs out there if they have their NIL situation sorted out well enough.

Now, obviously you shouldn't need to do it on the scale Colorado did, but I would argue that the portal class each year should be more important than the recruiting class! Think about it, who is going to be more ready to contribute immediately?

It's definitely moving that way.

 

[CoolBreeze]

Really comparing Alabama football to Ole Miss.

The way to look at is like this:

Lane has used the transfer portal so well, he's taking a perinnall SEC doormat and made them into a consistant top 15 team and a NY6 bowl. He's taken that program to new heights. Thats with what has been rumored as one of the lowest NIL budgets of any team in the sec.

What are you drinking bro? Ole Miss is till a doormat. Kiffin has done nothing special for the landsharks. I like Lane but he is not an outstanding head football coach.

 

[glorydays1990]

What are you drinking bro? Ole Miss is till a doormat. Kiffin has done nothing special for the landsharks. I like Lane but he is not an outstanding head football coach.

Seriously?

Lane took over a program that hasnt had a winning record is 4 seasons and has gone
5-5
10-2-- went to NY6 bowl
8-4
3-0 currently

He's gone 14-11 in the sec over those seasons. 14 sec wins in 3 seasons is the best 3 year stretch ole miss has had in the sec in 60 years. He finished 2nd in the west 2 years ago,

After not being ranked in 4 years... he's been ranked inside the top 15 3 seasons, and inside the top 10 2 times.

He's done an UNREAL job at ole miss... and is nowhere near the doormat of the conference. The 14 sec wins over the last 3 years is better than: ANYONE in the sec not named Alabama, LSU, and Georiga-- they are tied with Texas AM--- basically he's had the 4th best program in the SEC over the last 3 years.

I'll have what you are drinking-- if you cant see that--- he's basically turned chicken ** into chicken salad--

 

[CoolBreeze]

Seriously?

Lane took over a program that hasnt had a winning record is 4 seasons and has gone
5-5
10-2-- went to NY6 bowl
8-4
3-0 currently

He's gone 14-11 in the sec over those seasons. 14 sec wins in 3 seasons is the best 3 year stretch ole miss has had in the sec in 60 years. He finished 2nd in the west 2 years ago,

After not being ranked in 4 years... he's been ranked inside the top 15 3 seasons, and inside the top 10 2 times.

He's done an UNREAL job at ole miss... and is nowhere near the doormat of the conference. The 14 sec wins over the last 3 years is better than: ANYONE in the sec not named Alabama, LSU, and Georiga-- they are tied with Texas AM--- basically he's had the 4th best program in the SEC over the last 3 years.

I'll have what you are drinking-- if you cant see that--- he's basically turned chicken ** into chicken salad--

Stats lie but since you are on it. Hugh Freeze took over a 2 win team in Oxford and went 27-15 (64%) at the same point Kiffin is now. Lane is 26-13 over that same span (3 games into his 4th season - 66%). So no, Joey is not an outstanding coach when you compare him to Nick who was 81% in his 3rd game of his 4th season. For all those that want Saban gone, dude is 87.7% in his 17th season at Alabama. Absolutely incredible run by the certified GOAT if I must say so myself.

 

[glorydays1990]

Stats lie but since you are on it. Hugh Freeze took over a 2 win team in Oxford and went 27-15 (64%) at the same point Kiffin is now. Lane is 26-13 over that same span (3 games into his 4th season - 66%). So no, Joey is not an outstanding coach when you compare him to Nick who was 81% in his 3rd game of his 4th season. For all those that want Saban gone, dude is 87.7% in his 17th season at Alabama. Absolutely incredible run by the certified GOAT if I must say so myself.

wasn’t comparing kiffin to saban. But you can’t argue the job that kiffin has done in Oxford. It’s again the best run they’ve had there in some 60 years. Ole miss isn’t the doormat of the sec.

being the 4th best team in the sec really doesn’t lie. Especially considering they don’t have the resources other programs have

and if your comparing freeze to lane. Remember that lanes 5-5 season was against all sec schools. He didn’t have cupcakes that year To pad the record due to Covid.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

wasn’t comparing kiffin to saban. But you can’t argue the job that kiffin has done in Oxford. It’s again the best run they’ve had there in some 60 years. Ole miss isn’t the doormat of the sec.

being the 4th best team in the sec really doesn’t lie. Especially considering they don’t have the resources other programs have

and if your comparing freeze to lane. Remember that lanes 5-5 season was against all sec schools. He didn’t have cupcakes that year To pad the record due to Covid.

What's Kiffin's record vs ranked teams?

 

[CoolBreeze]

wasn’t comparing kiffin to saban. But you can’t argue the job that kiffin has done in Oxford. It’s again the best run they’ve had there in some 60 years. Ole miss isn’t the doormat of the sec.

being the 4th best team in the sec really doesn’t lie. Especially considering they don’t have the resources other programs have

and if your comparing freeze to lane. Remember that lanes 5-5 season was against all sec schools. He didn’t have cupcakes that year To pad the record due to Covid.

You are the one that said Kiffin has done such an "UNREAL" job but when compared against a factual unreal job he just does not stack up very well. He is not a bad head coach just not great.

 

[glorydays1990]

You are the one that said Kiffin has done such an "UNREAL" job but when compared against a factual unreal job he just does not stack up very well. He is not a bad head coach just not great.

having the best 3 year run in 60 years. Leading a team to a ny6 bowl. Having a program consistently ranked inside to top 15.

is on heck of a job IMO. Guess it’s whatever your definition of unreal is. He’s taken the program to new heights.

 

[bamaga]

How did Alabama get here?

How did Alabama — the most talented team on paper in the modern era of college football — get to a place where it doesn’t have a functional quarterback?

That’s a complicated question to answer because it’s not like Alabama didn’t give itself options, both through traditional high school recruiting and the transfer portal. Alabama came into the season with five quarterbacks on the roster, each ranked among the top 160 players nationally in the 247Sports Composite …..Yes, they are all from different places, having varying experience levels and with different styles of play, but it was so easy to just assume the great Saban would find one of them to lead this ultra-talented team back to the College Football Playoff.

- Ari Wasserman, the Athletic

.

 

[TideEngineer08]

having the best 3 year run in 60 years. Leading a team to a ny6 bowl. Having a program consistently ranked inside to top 15.

is on heck of a job IMO. Guess it’s whatever your definition of unreal is. He’s taken the program to new heights.

He hasn't done any better than Hugh Freeze. About the same, as someone else said.

He would probably have several more wins though if he wasn't obsessed with going for it on 4th down.

 

[CoolBreeze]

having the best 3 year run in 60 years. Leading a team to a ny6 bowl. Having a program consistently ranked inside to top 15.

is on heck of a job IMO. Guess it’s whatever your definition of unreal is. He’s taken the program to new heights.

Need to lay off the sauce. He went 10-2 and lost the Sugar Bowl 21-7 to BayLOL in that vaunted season you keep referencing. I mean, the guy is in the top 25 as far as head coaches are concerned but his team's performances on the field are as inconsistent as his personality.

 

[davefrat]

Think deion said it and makes total sense.

Why go out and guess on high school kids. 18 year olds. When you can go get known commodities out of the portal and they are 21-22 year old men?

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, like the elite high school player is still going to get signed. But if you had 3-4-5 holes that you thought had to be covered next season to be successful for your team (whether thats 500 record, beating a rival, or winning the NC) why wouldnt you go out and get that 21-22 year old, that you know can handle college, that you've seen their work on tape?

And like Prime said: Coaches get fired if they cant win in 4 years. So building doesnt always work. people are looking for 2 year flips now, and the portal is the only way to do this.

This is why I'm lost for words at why we are stuck in the position we are QB wise. Saban/Staff had to see this coming a mile away. Plenty of proven QBs in the portal that would have given us a better product than what we are seeing.

What is ultimately most perplexing to me about the QB situation is that Saban either knew what we had with Bryce leaving and was okay with it (which is concerning) OR he wasn't aware of what we had with Bryce leaving (which is even more concerning).

I'm wondering if Saban's age is making him less attentive to details he would not have overlooked in years past.

As they say, time waits for no man, and it's completely normal for a man in his 70's to miss things he would have focused in on as a younger man.

 

[CoolBreeze]

What is ultimately most perplexing to me about the QB situation is that Saban either knew what we had with Bryce leaving and was okay with it (which is concerning) OR he wasn't aware of what we had with Bryce leaving (which is even more concerning).

I'm wondering if Saban's age is making him less attentive to details he would not have overlooked in years past.

As they say, time waits for no man, and it's completely normal for a man in his 70's to miss things he would have focused in on as a younger man.

Everyone wants to make Nick old because he is in his early 70's which is laughable. I know lots of people in their 70s and there is no cognitive decline. Dude wants to coach and he is doing a heck of a job. Did he make a mistake? Probably. Did we have the #1 recruiting class last year? Yes. I don't really see the problem other than the fact that he is human and prone to make errors like we all are.