FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

[TIDE-HSV]

Yeah, there’s no doubt about that. Fair point.


The artist currently known as JBama_in_PCOLA

from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[emoji208]

Well, I'm just happy to see the beginning of justice being done. I've said all along that the case was not within the SYG law, the way it was written. I'm just happy to see some agreement. Too much attention has been diverted here about factors which don't matter, legally. Really only the last 10-15 seconds do. The State's Attorney realized that...

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

Well, I'm just happy to see the beginning of justice being done. I've said all along that the case was not within the SYG law, the way it was written. I'm just happy to see some agreement. Too much attention has been diverted here about factors which don't matter, legally. Really only the last 10-15 seconds do. The State's Attorney realized that...

Yeah. I strongly agree with that. His actions were far too crazy and it resulted in the unjustly murdered man. Now, we have the long drawn out trial and what he’s actually guilty of.


The artist currently known as JBama_in_PCOLA

from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[emoji208]

 

[twofbyc]

It is not his job to "police" parking laws or the violation of them. His responsibility should have been to keep walking either to his car or into the store. If he wanted to "help", he could have gone to the customer service desk of the store and reported that there were people parking in Handicapped zones without a permit. That's about it. At that point he should have went about his day.

Take a picture of the car, tag and spot and call the cops; there may even be a number to text the photos.
I have no sympathy for lazy “fillintheblank” who park illegally in handicap spots. I wish the fine was $500 and enforced. Having said that, knowing the racial issues in this country, guy with the gun was an idiot “fillintheblank”. That scenario, with similar participants, will proceed exactly that same way (up to before the shooting) eight, maybe nine out of ten times.
Another option for those illegally parked in a handicap spot is block them in, call the cops and wait until they get there. Don’t get out of your car until the cops arrive. Violence may still erupt, but there will be no question who the instigator is.
Of course, if you’re not “handicapped”, you probably aren’t bothered in the least...[emoji57]


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[Bazza]

Well, I'm just happy to see the beginning of justice being done. I've said all along that the case was not within the SYG law, the way it was written. I'm just happy to see some agreement. Too much attention has been diverted here about factors which don't matter, legally. Really only the last 10-15 seconds do. The State's Attorney realized that...

Hey Earle.....thanks for your input here.

Question for you.....how important is this question wrt the legal aspects of the case:

Did the shooter fear for losing his life?

To clarify....I'm not asking what the video shows as much as asking what the state of mind of the shooter was.

Can we ascertain that at this point.........and how important is this going forward in legal terms?

 

[NationalTitles18]

Hey Earle.....thanks for your input here.

Question for you.....how important is this question wrt the legal aspects of the case:

Did the shooter fear for losing his life?

To clarify....I'm not asking what the video shows as much as asking what the state of mind of the shooter was.

Can we ascertain that at this point.........and how important is this going forward in legal terms?

Not a lawyer, but while the state of his mind matters the standard is would a reasonable person under similar circumstances feel fear for their life.

I also want to say that in regards to black on black crime and this particular event - it's just a red herring. Might as well bring up abortion. It just has nothing to do with it, though it is a topic worthy of discussion.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

Not a lawyer, but while the state of his mind matters the standard is would a reasonable person under similar circumstances feel fear for their life.

I also want to say that in regards to black on black crime and this particular event - it's just a red herring. Might as well bring up abortion. It just has nothing to do with it, though it is a topic worthy of discussion.

I was making a point on how liberals act not the actual black on black crime. I wish they had the same veracity when that happens. That’s all I was saying.



iPhone[emoji208]

 

[NationalTitles18]

I was making a point on how liberals act not the actual black on black crime. I wish they had the same veracity when that happens. That’s all I was saying.



iPhone[emoji208]

I'm afraid it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

I'm afraid it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Yeah, oh well. I tried.



iPhone[emoji208]

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Hey Earle.....thanks for your input here.

Question for you.....how important is this question wrt the legal aspects of the case:

Did the shooter fear for losing his life?

To clarify....I'm not asking what the video shows as much as asking what the state of mind of the shooter was.

Can we ascertain that at this point.........and how important is this going forward in legal terms?

17 nailed it. It's not supposed to matter in the slightest what the state of mind of the shooter was. What matters is what a reasonable man would have felt. This shooter had a history of provocation, four incidents, including two in which he showed his gun. A reasonable inference at this point is that he was running around looking for an opportunity to use his gun...

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Not to derail the thread but just for the record. What I said was a myth was the idea that black communities didn't care about black on black crime.

 

[CrimsonForce]

17 nailed it. It's not supposed to matter in the slightest what the state of mind of the shooter was. What matters is what a reasonable man would have felt. This shooter had a history of provocation, four incidents, including two in which he showed his gun. A reasonable inference at this point is that he was running around looking for an opportunity to use his gun...

The previous incidents wouldn't be admissible in the trial, correct?

 

[MattinBama]

The previous incidents wouldn't be admissible in the trial, correct?

As a lay person I imagine that his lawyer will try very hard to prevent them from entering into it, but I imagine it will be a tough sell and I'd be surprised if they win that motion.

 

[Ratal]

Is it possible that charges in this case may be in hopes that the interpretation of the law doesn't get out of hand? This situation is extremely close to allowing someone to instigate an altercation with you verbally and hoping that you push them so that they can legally shoot you legally.

 

[81usaf92]

Is it possible that charges in this case may be in hopes that the interpretation of the law doesn't get out of hand? This situation is extremely close to allowing someone to instigate an altercation with you verbally and hoping that you push them so that they can legally shoot you legally.

It’s basically saying “ everyone is a cop in Florida without consequences based on the the totality of circumstances” if this guy is found not guilty.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The previous incidents wouldn't be admissible in the trial, correct?

Probably not, although Florida has a "pattern of behavior" statute. If you want to read, it starts at 90.404...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Is it possible that charges in this case may be in hopes that the interpretation of the law doesn't get out of hand? This situation is extremely close to allowing someone to instigate an altercation with you verbally and hoping that you push them so that they can legally shoot you legally.

Which is why I think there needs to be a caveat written into stand your ground laws that if someone is proven (in a court of law) to have instigated a situation in which they ultimately shot and/or killed someone. They are not protected by the SYG law.

 

[day-day]

Which is why I think there needs to be a caveat written into stand your ground laws that if someone is proven (in a court of law) to have instigated a situation in which they ultimately shot and/or killed someone. They are not protected by the SYG law.

I like the intent here but I don't know if proving in a court of law would get the job done. It would make sense though in that the person would then face the common law of self-defense instead of falling back on stand your ground. My understanding is that the common self-defense takes a little more scrutiny before dismissing the person.

Found this that is interesting:

Florida's JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.041 Use or threatened use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force or threat of force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use or threatened use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use or threatened use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use or threatened use of force.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I like the intent here but I don't know if proving in a court of law would get the job done. It would make sense though in that the person would then face the common law of self-defense instead of falling back on stand your ground. My understanding is that the common self-defense takes a little more scrutiny before dismissing the person.

Found this that is interesting:

Florida's JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

I referred to that far above. I don't think - and many, many lawyers agree with me - that Florida is really enforcing its own law as it's written...

 

[jthomas666]

Which is why I think there needs to be a caveat written into stand your ground laws that if someone is proven (in a court of law) to have instigated a situation in which they ultimately shot and/or killed someone. They are not protected by the SYG law.

This thread illustrates the problem with such a caveat.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

This thread illustrates the problem with such a caveat.

So you're saying we ought to just shoot anyone who parks illegally in handicapped places? Nip it in the bud so other innocent bystanders aren't forced to get involved?