Politics: General Removal of Statues Thread
- Thread starter Ldlane
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And FWIW, I don't congratulate MS for FINALLY removing a symbol from the state flag that has long been used to oppress black people. I'm happy they're finally attempting to join the 20th (much less the 21st) century, but I give no credit for people finally succumbing to pressure to remove a symbol from their state flag that was soundly defeated >150 years ago.
There's a reason people say "welcome to Mississippi, please set your clocks back 200 years"...
There's a reason people say "welcome to Mississippi, please set your clocks back 200 years"...
If this was put to a public vote it probably wouldn’t pass.
The flag was over the Alabama capital building until 1993. It only came down then because Guy Hunt got kicked out of office and Jim Folsom had it taken down.
I have seen comments on FB from people saying they aren’t voting for Tubby because he spoke out against flying the flag when he was at Ole Miss.
Well it did take them 148 years to ratify the 13th amendment. Not kidding look it up.
Once 3/4 of the states ratified (in December 1865), it was a moot point whether any of the remaining 1/4 did not not. It is just symbolism. Good symbolism, but symbolism.
Let's not ignore everything Mississippi did in all those years. It was more than symbolic.
Delaware did not ratify the XIII amendment until 1901. Kentucky did not ratify the XIII amendment until 1976. Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Alaska, Hawaii have never ratified the amendment, because it would have been a pointless exercise. It was already in the Constitution when they were admitted to the Union. I doubt that these states harbor some secret approval of chattel slavery.
As for Mississippi, they were probably in a grumpy mood in 1865 when the state first rejected the amendment (7,500 war dead, Jackson and Meridian burned to the ground, etc.). Then Mississippi sent a congressional delegation to Congress in December 1865 that included only one Republican (James Alcorn), and Congressional Republicans refused to seat the Mississippi delegation. Shortly thereafter, Congressional Reconstruction overthrew the Mississippi state government, so they could not ratify any amendment to the Constitution. By the time Mississippi was readmitted to the Union (1870), the XIII amendment had been a duly ratified amendment for five year and the state legislature probably had more pressing issues.
Thanks for the history - I did not know any of that. Does not change or invalidate the point.
While this is more aimed at Trump it does show why we don't need these flags flying in government and public spaces.
Indeed. Those Jim Crow laws weren't going to write themselves.
Separate but equal was really just separate and not anything close to equal. But yet these flags are for Southerners to be proud of their heritage....
I am not proud of that flag or of the systemic injustice it represents. The "they were too busy" excuse doesn't hold water. It's utter BS. The legislatures of certain states took time to blatantly and openly negate the constitution for black people. If they were too busy it was too busy hating and writing laws to counter the constitution.
They still do its just evolved in name. Just look at Tuscaloosa school zoning or half the crap that is signed into law in the State.
My issue with the Confederate Flags is that you can come up with your own version of the Civil War if you want to, but you cant defend its use afterwards. Yes the US flag has been a part of horrendous events but its also been a part of a lot of great events of human history, and we actually live in the USA and known generations that lived under it. Really how many have met your Confederate ancestors? (Its possible but not probable)
Pleasant Crump - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This article identifies the last CSA soldier as dying 12/31/1951. He was from Alabama. It says a few others lived a little longer and claimed to be a Confederate veteran to get a pension but research showed they were fakes.
Whoever it was, it has been nearly 70 years since the last one died. Given there were probably very few left by the 1940s, there can’t be many people around who can say they have met a rebel soldier.
As for the 13th amendment, Alabama was the 25th of the then 27 required to pass it. There was no need for states joining the union after it passed because they were accepting the constitution as it was when they joined.
When do you suppose the Jim Crow laws were written?
Which Jim Crow particular laws are you speaking of?
Right, and there is no need for Mississippi to ratify it after it had been ratified by 3/4s of the states. It was already part of the Constitution and had been for years.. By the time Mississippi got back the power to ratify any amendments, the ratification of the XIII was five years in the past. Ratifying it in 2013 was symbolism. Good symbolism, I suppose, but without any effect. It's like passing a legislative resolution declaring circles are round.Pleasant Crump - Wikipedia
This article identifies the last CSA soldier as dying 12/31/1951. He was from Alabama. It says a few others lived a little longer and claimed to be a Confederate veteran to get a pension but research showed they were fakes.
Whoever it was, it has been nearly 70 years since the last one died. Given there were probably very few left by the 1940s, there can’t be many people around who can say they have met a rebel soldier.
As for the 13th amendment, Alabama was the 25th of the then 27 required to pass it. There was no need for states joining the union after it passed because they were accepting the constitution as it was when they joined.
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