Has there been any changes in our OL workout requirements?

[TIDE-HSV]

You could have wished...

for an earlier solution and I think CMS thought Johnston was it. What he's done now - hire a really tough SC coach, move the position coaches out of the way, authority-wise, but require them to attend workouts - and, finally, start attending himself, has a good chance of working. (Had a hard time there finding a place for a period.) I credit the slow solution, once again, to "NFL hangover." The overwhelming majority of NFL players - there's always some variation - don't have to be forced to get serious about S&C - it's their paycheck. I think CMS had a hard time grasping that college athletes aren't just junior pros. He's been getting much more involved in their personal lives and handing out discipline even to key players - something else NFL coaches normally don't do. As has been said above, he had an awful lot to learn in a very short period of time.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

As has been said above, he had an awful lot to learn in a very short period of time.

Which I think is why he's done an admirable job and is only going to get better. There's no doubt that there were things (and probably still are some things) that CMS "assumed" were getting done because of the professional work environment of the NFL that he had become accustomed to. Those guys know their paychecks depend on it so there's not much need for head coaches standing over them.

But that's not the case in college and I think he's learning that. But there's no doubt that our OL being in better physical shape can doing nothing but help.

 

[bamaslammer]

for an earlier solution and I think CMS thought Johnston was it. What he's done now - hire a really tough SC coach, move the position coaches out of the way, authority-wise, but require them to attend workouts - and, finally, start attending himself, has a good chance of working. (Had a hard time there finding a place for a period.) I credit the slow solution, once again, to "NFL hangover." The overwhelming majority of NFL players - there's always some variation - don't have to be forced to get serious about S&C - it's their paycheck. I think CMS had a hard time grasping that college athletes aren't just junior pros. He's been getting much more involved in their personal lives and handing out discipline even to key players - something else NFL coaches normally don't do. As has been said above, he had an awful lot to learn in a very short period of time.

Two thoughts,

one: last year all I heard was praise for coach Johnston and while I think its obvious he did a better job than Pollard on conditioning the only negative I heard last year was that Gilberry was a slacker in the weight room, now I'm hearing negatives about johnston.

two: I have no doubt that Shula is still learning to be a head coach, I have no doubt this will go on for many years, Shula's a young man and Mal obviously wanted to invest in a long future career for him at the Capstone, In my opinion thats the main thing Shula had over Croom, His age, not his skin color. But if Shula is ripping off a 10 win season with only an overtime loss to LSU and one bad game against Auburn and is "screwing up", I can't wait to see what he does when he figures it all out.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

But if Shula is ripping off a 10 win season with only an overtime loss to LSU and one bad game against Auburn and is "screwing up", I can't wait to see what he does when he figures it all out.

Pretty scary isn't it? Can't wait to see the "screw ups" when we get a few years of solid recruiting and big time talent in here.

 

[Aries]

I don't think Shula can use the learning curve as an excuse, at least not entirely. The reasoning is his staff-Woods-former HC, Kines-how many programs has he been with, and so on....they know what should be done and what should not. Granted, they likely didn't want to overstep their bounds, or were concerned mostly with their groups but....it wasn't a big secret, the OL was horrible.

I still don't understand how this group, esp since this group being so young and knowing they would be the weak link didn't have everyone's attention??? As I said earlier, if they knew technique might/would be a concern, at least have them as strong as possible as to counteract the lack of technique (to some degree).

However, the past is the past. Lets hope the OL and any other section of the team are all on the same page-working towards a NC.

 

[TerryP]

Two thoughts,

one: last year all I heard was praise for coach Johnston and while I think its obvious he did a better job than Pollard on conditioning the only negative I heard last year was that Gilberry was a slacker in the weight room, now I'm hearing negatives about johnston.

CKJ came up with Shula and the workouts associated with what became known as the lower gym. It's not a negative statement about KJ when he wasn't given a degree of authority (position of a disciplinarian) it was just something he had to deal with. IE: If a player was slacking off during a workout, quit during a conditioning run, etc...the discipline came from their respective position coaches. All positions are different and the thought on what would be required from a player also differed from coach to coach.

It's still a continuation of the "lower gym," but the intensity level has increased...it's just Rocky's style. As example, if during a run one of the players "falls out" and can't complete the drill the entire group has to start over again. You can see, with a little imagination, what that'll lead to.

two: I have no doubt that Shula is still learning to be a head coach, I have no doubt this will go on for many years, Shula's a young man and Mal obviously wanted to invest in a long future career for him at the Capstone, In my opinion thats the main thing Shula had over Croom, His age, not his skin color. But if Shula is ripping off a 10 win season with only an overtime loss to LSU and one bad game against Auburn and is "screwing up", I can't wait to see what he does when he figures it all out.

FWIW, it was the interview that Shula had over Croom...the way questions were answered, thoughts on who would be on the staff, not to mention suggestions from others in the NFL as to which hire would be the best. Age/skin color had little, if anything, to do with it.

 

[TerryP]

I don't think Shula can use the learning curve as an excuse, at least not entirely. The reasoning is his staff-Woods-former HC, Kines-how many programs has he been with, and so on....they know what should be done and what should not. Granted, they likely didn't want to overstep their bounds, or were concerned mostly with their groups but....it wasn't a big secret, the OL was horrible.

I still don't understand how this group, esp since this group being so young and knowing they would be the weak link didn't have everyone's attention??? As I said earlier, if they knew technique might/would be a concern, at least have them as strong as possible as to counteract the lack of technique (to some degree).

However, the past is the past. Lets hope the OL and any other section of the team are all on the same page-working towards a NC.

You have to take into account the NCAA has loosened some of its rules concerning supervision of the staff during conditioning...mostly in the wake of players collapsing and some dying during conditioning drills.

Secondly, while Shula received advise from other coaches one thing you can be assured of is he's a lot like his father...stubborn. He's going to do it his way, if that fails he's going to change it. There is good and bad in that trait...in fact, the good thing can be easily summed up by the attn. the program gets from its fan base/alumni and what it takes to maintain control of "his program" in that light.

We definitely spent some time last pre-season talking about the technique, problems we feared, etc. They became a reality about mid-way through the season and from what Shula said he's spent some time studying those areas since the AU game of last year.

It's all supposition, but like I mentioned earlier I see this as "carry over" from the NFL days...with plenty of examples of other decisions which mirror the same mentality.

 

[Tider in Texas]

Amazing

This thread is quite a lot to digest. Many things come to mind but mainly a feeling of frustration. However, when you take a step back and realize that the coaching staff at the University is like any business, in that you strive for the best, try to get everyone working toward the same objective but sometimes plans don't workout and coaches don't follow through as a HC would expect. Sounds like their is plenty of blame to go around regarding S&C and the OLine.

Without having the insight to program as some on the board, the following are my hopes for this situation:
1) The new SC Coach is the answer
2) We settle on a proven OLine technique regardless of the position coaches preference, that CMS would canvas the football landscape to arrive at an carefully, thoughtout, intelligent, workable scheme for our OLine.

RTR

 

[dvldog]

Without having the insight to program as some on the board, the following are my hopes for this situation:
1) The new SC Coach is the answer
2) We settle on a proven OLine technique regardless of the position coaches preference, that CMS would canvas the football landscape to arrive at an carefully, thoughtout, intelligent, workable scheme for our OLine.


3) Oh, and PLEASE beat the BARN!!! :biggrin: