Hope Scholarship

[bamaslammer]

I've been hearing alot lately about the disadvantage of the baseball programs of Ark, Miss, Alabama, & Auburn because they are the only SEC schools located in states that do not have the lottery based scholarships. Scholarships that the baseball programs can use to load up their roster where the others have to split 11 scholarships for the whole team.

Are Schools like Georgia getting football advantages with the Hope Scholarship.

If it were known that they did get extra players and that those players made a competative difference would it change the attitude toward the lottery should their be another vote?

If your preacher said you are going to hell if you vote yes, and Mike Shula said your never going to the SEC title again if you vote no, which would you choose?

 

[fosterkeats]

First of all, gambling is everywhere, whether the moral avengers in Alabama have kept it away or not... How much $$$ are Alabama residents spending in Ga, Fl & TN lotteries every year??? I bet in the millions... that $$$ could have been spent in state to fund everything from education to improving neighborhoods...

There are advantages and disadvantages of a scholarship-based lottery, like Georgia:

-Schools like U of Georgia get those in state kids with good grades instead of them bolting to Vandy, Duke or Harvard... their overall acedemics get better...
-U of Georgia can recruit a kid for baseball or volleyball and not count their scholarship as "athletic", they would be considered a walk on...
-Competition for entrance to U of Ga gets nasty. There was an article in the AJC about a kid with a 4.0 and a 1200 SAT NOT getting in... He could still go to any other state school on that scholarship...
-High School teachers are pressured into giving undeserving grades b/c kids & parents pressure them, so A LOT of students get free passes through HS, then self destruct in college when they actually have to EARN those good grades...
-And the argument that the poor lottery players actually end up paying for a middle/upper class kid to go to college, whose parents never play the lottery...

 

[BamaArrived2006]

I can tell you that's why Ga kids are stayin in-state, a guy I know HUGE ALABAMA Fan, he's goin to UGA cause of the Hope, he's got a full free ride to UGA, and I know fotball players from my school who've gotten into UGA, and have The Hope and are trying to walk-on there. So if ALABAMA had a lotto that went towards education I could see it helping, also ALOT of people from Alabama go to Ga, to by lotto tickets, I see 'em on Hwy 278 on Friday afternoons when I'm going to Alabama to visit family, and you see trucks and cars with ALABAMA plates, stopped at the last gas station in Ga buying Lotto tickets.

------------------
I Remember '55

"Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself." Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant

"I can't tell you what it means to me to be dressed and in that tunnel and running onto the field at Bryant- Denny Stadium." #56 Todd Bates, Senior 2004.

I BELIEVE

 

[CrimsonCable]

What you guys say is true, but as a Florida resident, all I can say is "Thanks" to the hopefull lottery players in Alabama. Last year you guys spent over 100 Million dollars in the Florida lotto alone. I thank you and my kids thank you.

Frankly, I was amazed (and kind of relieved) when the lotto was voted down in Alabama. You can bet ole Jeb was breathing a sigh of relief, too.

 

[jdpas29]

education and higher learning starts in the home. the lottery does absolutely nothing to help that. if anything, it's just one more bill that working parents pay every few days in hopes of hitting it rich... all the while enjoying the 'idea' that they're really doing it for the kids.

putting 'C' students into college is not necessarily good for Alabama OR America in the long term. most of the kids that make good grades have good discipline. that's why they deserve to go to college. that's why they 'should' go to college. most of the kids that make c's and below spend a little more time 'not studying' in high school and will pull down the overall GPA of the college they attend as well as delude the curriculum and scoring standards of the schools over the long term.

America needs better and more dedicated students of higher learning, not just 'more' students of higher learning.

Fla and GA can have their lottery. state sponsored gambling reaks of corruption and conflict of interest, and it is only a matter of time before corruption in both lotteries will become evident.

I attended, for the most part, very poor schools as a youngster in the 80's. we were basically bussed into the ghetto for 3rd grade and into generally unsanitary schools with about 50% teachers that could barely speak english. The sewage ran out into the floor of the bathroom, and most kids would simply hold it all day or sneak a 'pee pee' behind a building at break. it was disgusting. at least i lucked out and got one of the better teachers... i will never forget her. i realize how much of a hard time it must have been for her as a teacher as well.

after a rather sorry few years in grade school and jr. high as far as teachers go, i went to high school where things were maybe slightly better. the sanitation at least was no longer an issue. the teachers, however, were lacking.

all this withstanding, i graduated with a 3.5 GPA (i think) and scored a 27 on the ACT. i got a full scholarship to Troy State and used all four years of it.

what's the moral of the story??? you should learn the most important lessons long before you enter the doors of kindergarten. my mom spent hours with us teaching us how to read the alphabet and basic numbers and recognition skills before kindergarten. she also rode me to do my homework throughout grade school and wouldn't settle for anything less. THIS is what makes a better educated people across the board. THIS is what will change America. NOT extra computers in the classrooms and fancy books with better pictures. Kids these days aren't pushed hard enough in the early grades by their parents. It may be getting better in some areas of the country, but from where i stand there are just too many distractions for children in the home and not enough discipline. homework is an annoyance instead of a duty, and teachers lose more and more power to discipline students every day.

so tell me how a lottery is going to fix or even address the root of the problem...

 

[jdpas29]

and another thing... if there is going to be a lottery in the state of Alabama, we better not spend all the money trying to send mediocre students to college.

we need to spend that revenue on hiring the best and brightest from all over the country to teach our kids in grades K-8. These are the most crucial years while in grade school, and the teachers should be paid accordingly($place money here$).

if a kid's brain is 'right' and focused by the 8th grade, high school becomes a breeze. if they're still in happy fun playtime mode and just want to cut up, they will either score poorly or drop out of high school. the problems must be fixed earlier and with more discipline from teachers.

 

[bamaslammer]

But lets focus on the tail end of my post.

IF coach rickt works it out for 4 blue chippers to go in under hope, and leaves him his other scholly's to spend on the dumber ones, and they wipe the floor with us the next 4 years because of it. and its like really clear that thats why.

What would you expect from the public, from the boosters, and from the Guv-nu.

 

[exiledNms]

Foster's final point about the regressive tax that a lottery creates is the one that makes me continue to hope that a lottery doesn't come to exile (nor to AL). Also, ask the teachers in FL whether all of their funding woes have been solved by the lottery. (that'd be "no"). Ask the teachers in GA whether theirs have been ("no").

Here at home in exile, ask "did casino gambling solve all of the education funding problems like we were told?" (Emphatic "no").

So the economics don't work, nor does the idea of poor people paying for middle & upper kids' college work.

exiled

(p.s. - sounds ominously like "moral avenging" to use Foster's phrase...I tried to avoid doing that)

 

[MississippiTider]

The way I understand the schlorship rule is that no matter what type of schlorship a football player is using it counts against the total number of schollys allowed. That applies to football and basketball, but not the "minor" sports.

 

[HighTide333]

The lottery isn't designed to make smarter or happier kids...that's CRRAP.
The lottery is a way of fooling the unsuspecting (nice word for IGNERNT) public into further putting the woes and neglects of public schools on the shoulders of the government....the one place that a truly totalitarian state wants it.

You want free money...steal it, because if you wait for the FATCATS in the Capitol to give it to you
and you're middle-class, you're probably stupid enough to have voted for gambling and stupid enough to remain low/middle class...
wanting a handout from the very class of people that use your short-sighted desires against you...for your almighty VOTE.
Some people RULE...some people get RULED.
Check to see who benefits from the lottery funds in reality and you'll see who is ruling who.
Oh wait, the lottery proposal came with NO plans written out for $$$ dispersal, and NO guarantees that ANY percentage would actually go to SCHOOLS....much less better pay for teachers, and better lobbying in the legislature to created schools that less resemble tribal mating grounds.
The politicians didn't even tell us where the money would GO...and yet they preyed on our fears of stupid kids to try and line their own pockets....who's stupid?

The lottery isn't evil, as fosterkeats seems to think conservatives and Christians see it, but rather it's just sad to manipulate people with their HOPEs and dreams, only to snatch the rug out from under them and laugh.


Ignorance and stupidity are illness...preventable illnesses, and they are not corrected by someone else throwing money at you. Sure, there is a baseline level of awareness needed to realize your own stupidity, and that takes a certain $ background, but the fact of the matter is...irresponsible and ignorant parents breed irresponsible and ignorant children.
That trend has less to do with school
money, and more to do with abundance and apathy on the part of the adults.

If we need more money for education, let's THE PEOPLE demand that waste is curtailed and budgets deflated...schools are big business, and businesses can't be ran successfully by people that think MONEY is the key to education.

Education is the key to MONEY.
Knowledge is power, and ignoring your own stupidity and HOPing money will cure you only dooms you and your family heritage to that of further dependence on government and
social programs to coddle you into thinking you're NOT ignorant and stupid.

Learn or be Learned.

 

[rolltide92276]

If your preacher said you are going to hell if you vote yes, and Mike Shula said your never going to the SEC title again if you vote no, which would you choose?

I'd still vote no. Hell is eternal, SEC titles are temporary.

 

[BayouBama75]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Hope only pays tuition and $100-$200 for books. It does not pay for room and board...
Also the student must have a B average and maintain a 3.0 to keep the Hope.
In Georgia over 65% of the students lose the Hope Scholly in their first year...

Not sure all of the football player could live under these conditions.

 

[bamaslammer]

Assuming you believe your preacher that playing the lottery is in fact a sin, which I don't think is quite cut and dry.

I voted for the lottery, but would have almost never played it, I travel often enough to surrounding states and 9 times out of 10 forget to buy a ticket while there, and I always buy only one ticket.

I voted yes for the lottery because of trickle down economics. My reasoning being two fold, one is that even if the polititians do steal half of it, they still spend that money on houses, cars, and other crap that a percentage will go down the economic ladder, but the point being some of it stays here as apposed to 100% going elsewhere.

The other thing is I know a certain teacher who is one of the highest qualified high school teachers in the United States, this is not my opinion this is a documentable fact. and the day her last kid graduates from high school she is leaving to teach in another state, because the money is much better, and that is "in part" due to the lottery. so Alabama will yet again lose out to other states.

The arguments against the lottery seem always based on the fact that ALL the money is not spent wisely and poor people are too stupid to not play, well WAKE UP, this is EARTH your living on and nothing is ever going to come close to a utopia, and as for poor people, If we in America would let Darwin do his work and let folks truely pay for their mistakes perhaps they would learn something and teach their kids instead of breeding more mind numbingly stupid people who are nothing more than a burden to society

But again, I don't give a rip, because I don't play the lottery enough to care. and the more less educated folks Alabama turns out the less competition my children will have for the few good jobs that exist.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The Hope scholly is a "counter" if the player sets foot on the field. Therefore, it's only good for "practice fodder." While I share some of the views of posters pointing out that it's, in essence, a regressive tax, a lottery may end up being a self-defense move. TN has just passed their lottery bill and now everyone from N. Ala. is convoying up to the first gas stations in TN. What's worse than Alabama working-class folk paying for the college education of Alabama middle-class kids? I'll tell you. Alabama working-class folk paying for TENNESSEE middle-class kids..

 

[fosterkeats]

Some great posts above, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other...

I don't play the GA lottery, I'd have better luck standing on top of a skyscraper with a golf club pointed at the sky in hopes of getting hit by lightning...

But I have seen the pros and cons, kids getting the HOPE and running with it, others get it for enough effort by a teacher whose pressured into giving Bs by parents... then the kids blow it b/c they never had to study to get their grades in the first place...

I meant no offense with the "moral avenger" comment above, I was just referring to those who are adamantly opposed to the lottery, and they are usually referencing the Bible in their stance...

 

[Capstone46]

We just finished the second and last day of Honors program freshmen orientation on campus. I spoke to all the parents in a group and many of the students and parents individually. We had a number of students who declined the Hope scholarship in Ga to attend Alabama. I remember one with a 4.0 and a 1400 SAT who declined the Hope and is paying out of state tuition here with only $1,200 annual scholarship. Obviously finances were not an issue. Her final choices were Tuscaloosa or Cornell. You would be amazed at how many times incoming freshmen do their research and make their choice based on the quality of education here. After they visit, they simply say nothing else compared to Alabama. Her Dad was a UConn grad.

In football/basketball only the Presidential scholarship doesn't count against the numbers.

jdpas29,
I don't know if you are a parent, but if you are, you are a good one. Obviously your Mom taught you well. I hope you tell her you appreciated it.

[This message has been edited by Capstone46 (edited 06-03-2004).]

 

[DiamondDust]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Capstone46:
We just finished the second and last day of Honors program freshmen orientation on campus. I spoke to all the parents in a group and many of the students and parents individually. We had a number of students who declined the Hope scholarship in Ga to attend Alabama. I remember one with a 4.0 and a 1400 SAT who declined the Hope and is paying out of state tuition here with only $1,200 annual scholarship. Obviously finances were not an issue. Her final choices were Tuscaloosa or Cornell. You would be amazed at how many times incoming freshmen do their research and make their choice based on the quality of education here. After they visit, they simply say nothing else compared to Alabama. Her Dad was a UConn grad.

In football/basketball only the Presidential scholarship doesn't count against the numbers.

jdpas29,
I don't know if you are a parent, but if you are, you are a good one. Obviously your Mom taught you well. I hope you tell her you appreciated it.

[This message has been edited by Capstone46 (edited 06-03-2004).]</font>

What Capstone just said is 100% true. Last summer, I helped with freshman orientation for the Communications college. From the starting honors session until the very end, we had a number of students coming in from Georgia(Mostly metro Atlanta). We finally asked why there was such an influx, as we were hoping to establish some student recruiting situations. The incoming freshman told us that the majority of them had 3.7-3.9 GPAs, yet they couldn't get into UGA because of the Hope Scholarship. UGA ups the out of state enrollment, and puts heavy limits on in state due to the money difference. As a result, schools like Alabama, Auburn, and even Ole Miss are getting some of Georgia's best and brightest. My brother-in-law's brother-in-law went to Auburn and said the same thing.

Capstone, I have to ask... are you an Avanti or a parent?

[This message has been edited by DiamondDust (edited 06-03-2004).]

 

[Stephen323]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Capstone46:


In football/basketball only the Presidential scholarship doesn't count against the numbers.
</font>

Not true. Any recruited athlete who receives institutional aid is a counter. The Presidential scholarship is institutional aid. If the student receives non-institutional aid (i.e. Pell Grant), then they do not count if they are not a recruited athlete.

The reason that lottery states can stack the rosters of sports like baseball and softball with in-state players is that there is no roster limitation in those sports, but there is an athletic scholarship limitation.

 

[Capstone46]

Stephen323,
You could be right. I based my statement solely on the personal experience of having a borderline possible Presidential scholarship winner in the family. We were told by the recruiting coordinator he would be a non counter if he walked on as a Presidential winner. He didn't win the Presidential but took the full athletic scholarship ride through his Master's.

 

[Stephen323]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Capstone46:
Stephen323,
You could be right. I based my statement solely on the personal experience of having a borderline possible Presidential scholarship winner in the family. We were told by the recruiting coordinator he would be a non counter if he walked on as a Presidential winner. He didn't win the Presidential but took the full athletic scholarship ride through his Master's. </font>

Yeah, it gets a bit confusing, but if the player is "recruited" in the eyes of the NCAA, any scholarship given by the university causes that player to count. Otherwise, we could just give every player a "Presidential" scholarship.