How do we get a presidential candidate who will get (almost) the entire country behind him/her?

[JDCrimson]

So you are saying I am going to have to vote for Kamala Harris for President in a future election over a crazed Republican?

I was hoping for a better choice...

I seriously doubt Gavin Newsom would win a Democratic primary, but I'll play along and show you further why this is a disaster at every level.

Let's suppose Newsom is drunk and carrying on with an underage cheerleader the night he clears the threshold for nomination and is presented with Liz Cheney. WHY.....would he pick Liz Cheney?

1) She has no relevant foreign policy experience to cover the gaps in his resume.
2) She's not even a guarantee to carry Wyoming on a Democratic ticket
3) The liberal interest groups that largely influence the primary vote will lose their collective intestines.

Because imagine this scenario.

It's 2026, and the GOP owns the Senate. Barely, but they've got it. Clarence Thomas is legit impeached for conflict of interest on 1/6. And this occurs AFTER Newsom has a heart attack with the underage cheerleader and assumes room temperature, and Cheney is now the President. She's STILL a conservative in principle. (Her position on these hearings and Trump are, in fact, based on her conservative principles at a time too many others are being way too pragmatic for my blood).

McConnell sees a chance to replace the now 75-year old Thomas with a 40-year old judge, so he gets the GOP to go along on throwing Thomas out of office. Cheney replaces Thomas with the judge about half his age, and all of a sudden Alito and Roberts decide they want to spend more time with their children coach Ohio State in football. Cheney signs off on two more young judges, two rated qualified by the ABA, which she tries to bring back. You suddenly have SIX YOUNG conservative judges, which means you can lose one of your justices and still get your way.

You think the nominating wing of the Democratic Party isn't going to reherase that nightmare scenario in their heads, especially in a post-RBG world?

======================================

I think myself an old-fashioned American. I WANT to believe in our processes, I accept we are a proud and flawed nation that at times takes too long to get around to some things maybe we should do earlier. I'm a firm believer in divided government as a safeguard against tyranny - and yeah, maybe I look at it differently because I DID live in Germany during the Cold War (less than 40 years from the end of WW2). If you were to ask me personally what I think is probably my own personal favorite type setup, it would be the first six years of the Reagan Presidency (GOP President to the right who understands he has to move to the middle on some things, a solidly Democratic House, and a barely GOP Senate) or the late Clinton years minus the Lewinsky scandal. (Yes, I said it). We need it so there HAS to be some give-and-take. And a court that moves almost like a person driving a car, slight move to the right, slight move to the left, nothing extreme in either direction. As GHW Bush said about Souter, "If I disagree with how he rules on something, so be it."

But that REQUIRES a valid two-party system. And right now, we don't have one, at least beyond theory. I chuckle at the charge "the Republicans only care about power" as if the Democrats don't. However, the Democrats at least are trying to do this. Yes, it's messy - because a functioning democracy IS a messy thing. I disagree with a lot of the things they do, but they're at least TRYING to have some elections with some level of substance.

The GOP, on the other hand, is burning to the ground the very things they once professed and even practiced (such as when they informed Nixon there were enough Republicans to remove him from office). As Rick Wilson and George Will (conservatives both) have said, "The Republican Party is the only group of people in America afraid of their own voters." They remind me of the Jack Warden character (Big Ben Healy) in the first Problem Child movie, where he poses as this "America for the Americans" candidate for mayor and is then caught on tape saying he'd sell his soul to the Japanese if they made him an offer.

=======================================

The larger point?

Liz Cheney adds zero to a Democratic ticket.
Not one vote.
Not one state.

And Newsom would spend the rest of the race trying to explain how having her as his successor is a good thing.

And her downside among the liberals, I mean, who could blame them from setting themselves on fire in the streets if Cheney got picked?

And finally...the current VP is a former California Senator, which makes bypassing her for a white male governor a pretty suicidal venture in the first place. If you really wanna depress the black turnout for the Democrats, just replace a black female former VP with a white guy whose running mate is a Republican. You'd have to explain not only why he's ahead of her but also why Cheney moved in line ahead of her.

I honestly know you mean well, but this has "we are trying to lose the election" written all over it.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

So you are saying I am going to have to vote for Kamala Harris for President in a future election over a crazed Republican?

I was hoping for a better choice...

I'm talking about the optics of politics.

You don't "have" to do anything.

The 2024 election is probably going to be either Biden or Harris versus some Republican you wouldn't want to take in a dog unless it had rabies.

 

[92tide]

I'm talking about the optics of politics.

You don't "have" to do anything.

The 2024 election is probably going to be either Biden or Harris versus some Republican you wouldn't want to take in a dog unless it had rabies.

i'm cool with that. harris would have been my first choice in 2020 had she made it to any the georgia primary

 

[81usaf92]

i'm cool with that. harris would have been my first choice in 2020 had she made it to any the georgia primary

Two things worry me about Harris 1 is how she campaigns. She really should have been a stronger candidate than what she was. But then again Biden didnt make it far in any of his previous campaigns either. The Second is that Harris is going to be seen as fresh meat for the Bernie like groups. Granted probably so is Biden, but Harris will probably face more opposition by the looneys than Biden.

Harris would be a good to decent leader but I think she needs to figure out how to be a better national candidate.

But she needs a new campaign manager at the very least. So maybe that will be enough.

 

[JDCrimson]

Well, if the rumors are true and i fear they are to an extent, that those who work for her dont like her, then she will be recast as Hillary 2.0 in that regard by the Republicans.

At least with Biden, we blame his gaffes in his age. Harris gaffes will be blamed on her arrogance and insensitivity.

I would prefer Klobuchar or Buttigeig (sp) over Harris.

Two things worry me about Harris 1 is how she campaigns. She really should have been a stronger candidate than what she was. But then again Biden didnt make it far in any of his previous campaigns either. The Second is that Harris is going to be seen as fresh meat for the Bernie like groups. Granted probably so is Biden, but Harris will probably face more opposition by the looneys than Biden.

Harris would be a good to decent leader but I think she needs to figure out how to be a better national candidate.

But she needs a new campaign manager at the very least. So maybe that will be enough.

 

[92tide]

Well, if the rumors are true and i fear they are to an extent, that those who work for her dont like her, then she will be recast as Hillary 2.0 in that regard by the Republicans.

At least with Biden, we blame his gaffes in his age. Harris gaffes will be blamed on her arrogance and insensitivity.

I would prefer Klobuchar or Buttigeig (sp) over Harris.

that seems to happen with every woman and i imagine the same will happen to klobuchar as well if she is the nom. btw, i would be happy with either klobuchar or buttigieg as well.

we have to remember thought, the hillary hate was a product of 20-25 years of almost daily crap being thrown at her and she still won the popular vote by a large margin and the outcome in our antiquated electoral college system hinged on less than 100k votes in 3 states.

 

[Bazza]

I don't know that she would run - but in my opinion - Hillary ***MIGHT*** be a better candidate than any mentioned thus far in the thread.

She'd want (need?) an endorsement from Jim Clyburn too, of course, which probably wouldn't be a problem.

I just don't see Harris or Biden being the one.

 

[TrueCrimson7]

I still believe Nikki Haley would be a formidable candidate if she decides to run.

 

[Bamaro]

I still believe Nikki Haley would be a formidable candidate if she decides to run.

Maybe before she became a trumpie.

 

[Bazza]

A prominent Democrat, Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney, speaks out about his political party. Rep. Maloney says Democrats have “become too good at only talking to people who already agree with us.” He wants his party to become “more generous and less judgmental.”

 

[Diogenes]

Cheney can't win in Wyoming, however, Liz will win enough primaries to determine who the GOP nominates for President

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Cheney can't win in Wyoming, however, Liz will win enough primaries to determine who the GOP nominates for President

Liz Cheney will not win a single primary.

I mean, you think Republicans in CLOSED primaries in OTHER STATES are gonna vote for her?

Her political career is probably over as far as holding an elected office, and it's a damn shame.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I don't know that she would run - but in my opinion - Hillary ***MIGHT*** be a better candidate than any mentioned thus far in the thread.

She'd want (need?) an endorsement from Jim Clyburn too, of course, which probably wouldn't be a problem.

I just don't see Harris or Biden being the one.

Hillary would be 77 years old on Election Day 2024. And she had all of two "aspects" of her candidacy: 1) she was married to a guy who happened to hold office when the economy was doing good;
2) she was a woman.

Think about this - on Election Day 2024, the YOUNGEST person who ever voted for BILL Clinton for President will be 46 years old. The millennials and Gen Zs have little to no recollection of her at all (hint: nobody knows who holds Cabinet offices later).

Aside from which she now has the baggage of being the only candidate to ever lose a head-to-head race against the worst candidate and President in US history. That's not an asset. And a lot of the ambitious Dems who deferred to her coronation ain't gonna just sit back and do it again.

 

[Diogenes]

Liz Cheney will win Georgia and Virginia in the 2024 Super Tuesday presidential primary

Liz Cheney will not win a single primary.

I mean, you think Republicans in CLOSED primaries in OTHER STATES are gonna vote for her?

Her political career is probably over as far as holding an elected office, and it's a damn shame.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Liz Cheney will win Georgia and Virginia in the 2024 Super Tuesday presidential primary

View attachment 27705

1) Everything I'm reading says GA has not yet set a primary date, although I would agree they would probably set in on "Super Tuesday," one of the biggest farces ever imposed on the electorate.

2) If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina - which she would - she's toast.

So I guess in theory she might win Georgia - but she wouldn't have any money, and it ain't like GA or VA are media event primaries anyway.

I also don't understand the picture you posted fwiw.

 

[Diogenes]

1) Everything I'm reading says GA has not yet set a primary date, although I would agree they would probably set in on "Super Tuesday," one of the biggest farces ever imposed on the electorate.

2) If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina - which she would - she's toast.

So I guess in theory she might win Georgia - but she wouldn't have any money, and it ain't like GA or VA are media event primaries anyway.

I also don't understand the picture you posted fwiw.

Just for the record, I didn’t say Cheney would be the GOP nominee.

Cheney will have enough electorates to determine who will be the GOP nominee at the GOP convention.

 

[Tug Tide]

Just for the record, I didn’t say Cheney would be the GOP nominee.

Cheney will have enough electorates to determine who will be the GOP nominee at the GOP convention.

Did I miss an announcement by her?

 

[Diogenes]

Did I miss an announcement by her?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/17/cheney-wyoming-giuliani-georgia-trump/

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Did I miss an announcement by her?

No.

Diogenes above said that Cheney would "win enough primaries to" determine the 2024 GOP nominee.

Did NOT say "Cheney will win the nomination."
DID say she would win some primaries.

I will be shocked first if she even runs and secondly if she wins anything at all.

You can't save someone from a cult that doesn't WANT to leave the cult.
And the current iteration of the GOP is absolutely a cult.

 

[Tug Tide]

I see Liz continuing her message from the sidelines. I think it more likely that if Biden, or whoever the D nominee turns out to be, can defeat Trump or DeSantis, that would be the turning point for the Rep party. She would have a couple years while they lick their wounds and run in 2028

No.

Diogenes above said that Cheney would "win enough primaries to" determine the 2024 GOP nominee.

Did NOT say "Cheney will win the nomination."
DID say she would win some primaries.

I will be shocked first if she even runs and secondly if she wins anything at all.

You can't save someone from a cult that doesn't WANT to leave the cult.
And the current iteration of the GOP is absolutely a cult.