Indiana (Sign Stealing)

[rolltide7854]

Sign stealing is a part of any organized sport. Heck, my 12 year old players steal signs on the baseball field without me even saying anything. I've even had several times where my players have come and told me they have figured out the steal sign of the other team's 3rd base coach and I've used it to my advantage.

I have zero problem with it between the white lines. I think the Michigan sign-stealing situation and the Houston Astros fiasco, are situations that go "out of bounds" and should be dealt with.

This happened on my 12 year old baseball team also. They were stealing the pitch signals. My son noticed it in the first inning and came back to the dugout mad about it. I changed what we did and n the 4th inning a boy slung his bat and yelled at his coach saying it was supposed to be a fastball. We won 4-0. LOL

 

[day-day]

But what’s wrong with being able to figure out what your opponent is doing based upon what they are saying or motioning or whatever they’re doing?

Why is that in and of itself illegal?

Unless they are literally stealing playbooks or hacking into the opponents system, so what?

Isn’t the remedy to donthings in such a way that you don’t tip off the other team as to what you’re doing?

I just don’t get why its illegal.

And if it’s as easy to do as it appears to be, why aren’t we doing it?

Sign and signal stealing is not illegal in NCAA football. Certain methods in doing so are illegal.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I think some of those players that he transferred in may have started off their college careers as "average" players but legitimately developed into elite players. Specifically, their top two WR's are ranked the #6 and #14 best WR's in the entire draft. To put that in perspective, Germie Bernard's position rank is #9. Their QB is #1 ranked at his position among NFL draftees, and their CB is ranked the 11th best CB in the entire draft. Those are just a few I named. They have several more players projected to go in the draft that are ranked (by the NFL) higher than some of our guys at the same position. Those are more than just "average" players. You don't have to have a roster completely full of NFL draft prospects to win a NC. You just need some in the right positions and an above average supporting cast around them.

Also, you have to look at Cigs coaching record everywhere he's gone. No matter where he's gone, he's ended up winning big. At some point you have to think that's no coincidence. The guy actually might be one helluva coach.

He is a really good coach and obviously learned well under Coach Saban. He is a jerk, yes. Coach Saban came off as a jerk to anyone not an Alabama fan, and rooting interests with other teams.

It remains to be seen whether or not Cignetti has the depth of character Coach Saban had, that his detractors could never see due to their bias, although some did come around later in his career and especially now that he is no longer coaching.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

Personally I don't think Indiana was sign stealing. There's a lot of coaches out there (not just Wommack) at elite programs who still are in disbelief that a team like Indiana, who built their team through the portal could win their first national championship by beating teams who had top recruiting classes with 5 star talent. It can happen though without cheating in the current state of college football where the portal may be more important than recruiting. When you get beat 38-3 it's easy to think something was amiss but they would have beaten us regardless of whether they stole signs or not.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

Personally I don't think Indiana was sign stealing. There's a lot of coaches out there (not just Wommack) at elite programs who still are in disbelief that a team like Indiana, who built their team through the portal could win their first national championship by beating teams who had top recruiting classes with 5 star talent. It can happen though without cheating in the current state of college football where the portal may be more important than recruiting. When you get beat 38-3 it's easy to think something was amiss but they would have beaten us regardless of whether they stole signs or not.

Miami gave them all they wanted 18 days later so us losing 38-3 was about a lot more than potential sign stealing.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

He is a really good coach and obviously learned well under Coach Saban. He is a jerk, yes. Coach Saban came off as a jerk to anyone not an Alabama fan, and rooting interests with other teams.

It remains to be seen whether or not Cignetti has the depth of character Coach Saban had, that his detractors could never see due to their bias, although some did come around later in his career and especially now that he is no longer coaching.

I don't even think the problem is Cignetti is/may be/acts like a jerk.

It's that he's acts like an arrogant twit when he just arrived on the scene as a national championship winning coach. He's coming across more like pompous Brian Billick, when the Ravens won the 2001 Super Bowl despite going a month without scoring a TD at one point during the regular season, than Bill Belichick, whose trophy case reflects a guy who had what it took to come back again.

I'm not a big fan at all of Mike Lupica, who fits the billing above as well except he's never won a damn thing. But I recall his sneering the next season when the Ravens got bounced out of the playoffs by the Steelers (pretty handily). He actually did a pretty eloquent roasting of Billick coming across like a guy who thought he invented the game. And that's when he referenced John Wooden attending the 1991 Final Four when it looked like UNLV had the horses to repeat as national champs. When the Runnin' Rebels lost to Duke in the semis, Wooden was asked how great UNLV still was and replied, "Well, a lot of teams have won one in a row."

There's one thing more difficult than getting there: staying.

And who has stayed? Using AP and UPI (sorry, folks, I don't consider legitimate national titles when the teams that "won" them didn't even know they won them)........and then BCS and CFP......

Minnesota (1940-41)
Army (1944-45)*
Notre Dame (1946-47)
Oklahoma (1955-56)
Alabama (1964-65)
Texas (1969-70)
Nebraska (1970-71)
Oklahoma (1974-75)
Alabama (1978-79)
Nebraska (1994-95)
USC (2003-04)
Alabama (2011-12)
Georgia (2021-22)

And let's face it, MOST of the titles prior to the last two teams involved quirks in the voting system such as not counting bowl games (or counting them in the case of 1965), multiple selectors, and being able to avoid the "other" big contender (Nebraska did not have to face Penn State in 1994, and USC did not face LSU in 2003, for example).

Let's see what Cignetti puts on the field the next three years before we crown him the next Nick Saban.

* - if any national champion ever deserved the asterisk, it's Army during WW2.

 

[davefrat]

Sign and signal stealing is not illegal in NCAA football. Certain methods in doing so are illegal.

Then all the hullabaloo about it makes even less sense to me.

 

[BamaMoon]

Then all the hullabaloo about it makes even less sense to me.

So the question should really be, "What kind of sign stealing did Indiana do; common/legal or illegal???"

 

[Bamabuzzard]

This happened on my 12 year old baseball team also. They were stealing the pitch signals. My son noticed it in the first inning and came back to the dugout mad about it. I changed what we did and n the 4th inning a boy slung his bat and yelled at his coach saying it was supposed to be a fastball. We won 4-0. LOL

Oh yeah, athletes (no matter the age) are highly competitive and most of the time if you've got a set of truly good young athletes, they'll come up with their own "sign stealing system" to help each other without the coach even knowing it. My 12U team has done that this spring. I literally have not told, practiced, or encouraged any of my players to steal signs. However, they are now reaching that age where they are going into puberty and their minds are developing along with their bodies. So, they are coming up with their own ideas and strategies to get an edge. I applaud it. It means they are thinking for themselves, which is what every coach of any youth baseball team should want.

This group right here, LOL!, is a highly, highly competitive group. These little savages will steal your signs, your wives, daughters and your girlfriends. Be careful! LOL!

 

[tusks_n_raider]

So the question should really be, "What kind of sign stealing did Indiana do; common/legal or illegal???"

If they did anything illegal I’m sure that by now just about every B1G team would be throwing a hissy fit and especially if it’s ’well known’ in coaching circles.

The whole rumor cropped up 3 months ago and it’s completely unfounded with zero proof.

I have no idea if Wommack said what he’s purported to say but if so it’s major crybaby whining and excuse making.

They beat the brakes off of us.

Several of their opponents played them close and we didn’t.

So the Coaches should be more worried about getting better overall and including doing a better job of signaling plays in if that is indeed an issue.

 

[CrimsonBloodn62]

Opposing teams didn’t have to worry about stealing Bama’s signs when the offense has been largely one dimensional for the last three years, with no consistent run game outside of Milroe scrambling.

 

[TDBama78]

If they did anything illegal I’m sure that by now just about every B1G team would be throwing a hissy fit and especially if it’s ’well known’ in coaching circles.

The whole rumor cropped up 3 months ago and it’s completely unfounded with zero proof.

I have no idea if Wommack said what he’s purported to say but if so it’s major crybaby whining and excuse making.

They beat the brakes off of us.

Several of their opponents played them close and we didn’t.

So the Coaches should be more worried about getting better overall and including doing a better job of signaling plays in if that is indeed an issue.

Going for it on 4th and 3 on your own 30 in the first half,,, they didn't have to steal that sign

 

[RTR2u]

Coaches just need to coach and stop whining and making excuses. Much like others have said, they didn't need signs to beat us, in my opinion all they had to do was line up. Coaches need to coach the meanness back into players like they did in the 2010s. I sure would like to see the hits of Foster and the leadership of McCarron and Ragland over the being lost and "timidness" I seemed to see over the past couple of years. I'm reserving all expectations until I see something of more substance on the field. I'm still yelling Roll Tide, though. I don't want to hear about "murder ball." I want to SEE it.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Personally I don't think Indiana was sign stealing. There's a lot of coaches out there (not just Wommack) at elite programs who still are in disbelief that a team like Indiana, who built their team through the portal could win their first national championship by beating teams who had top recruiting classes with 5 star talent. It can happen though without cheating in the current state of college football where the portal may be more important than recruiting. When you get beat 38-3 it's easy to think something was amiss but they would have beaten us regardless of whether they stole signs or not.

They were a more physical, disciplined and, fundamentally sound team than us, and it wasn't even close. That's what made it (for me) the most sickening part of the loss.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

They were a more physical, disciplined and, fundamentally sound team than us, and it wasn't even close. That's what made it (for me) the most sickening part of the loss.

This is the main reason I cut Cignetti some slack for being a ‘Big Meanie Jerk’.

He might Talk the Talk but his teams also Walk the Walk.

It’s up to the opponents to shut him up and no one has done it in a while.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I don't even think the problem is Cignetti is/may be/acts like a jerk.

It's that he's acts like an arrogant twit when he just arrived on the scene as a national championship winning coach. He's coming across more like pompous Brian Billick, when the Ravens won the 2001 Super Bowl despite going a month without scoring a TD at one point during the regular season, than Bill Belichick, whose trophy case reflects a guy who had what it took to come back again.

I'm not a big fan at all of Mike Lupica, who fits the billing above as well except he's never won a damn thing. But I recall his sneering the next season when the Ravens got bounced out of the playoffs by the Steelers (pretty handily). He actually did a pretty eloquent roasting of Billick coming across like a guy who thought he invented the game. And that's when he referenced John Wooden attending the 1991 Final Four when it looked like UNLV had the horses to repeat as national champs. When the Runnin' Rebels lost to Duke in the semis, Wooden was asked how great UNLV still was and replied, "Well, a lot of teams have won one in a row."

There's one thing more difficult than getting there: staying.

And who has stayed? Using AP and UPI (sorry, folks, I don't consider legitimate national titles when the teams that "won" them didn't even know they won them)........and then BCS and CFP......

Minnesota (1940-41)
Army (1944-45)*
Notre Dame (1946-47)
Oklahoma (1955-56)
Alabama (1964-65)
Texas (1969-70)
Nebraska (1970-71)
Oklahoma (1974-75)
Alabama (1978-79)
Nebraska (1994-95)
USC (2003-04)
Alabama (2011-12)
Georgia (2021-22)

And let's face it, MOST of the titles prior to the last two teams involved quirks in the voting system such as not counting bowl games (or counting them in the case of 1965), multiple selectors, and being able to avoid the "other" big contender (Nebraska did not have to face Penn State in 1994, and USC did not face LSU in 2003, for example).

Let's see what Cignetti puts on the field the next three years before we crown him the next Nick Saban.

* - if any national champion ever deserved the asterisk, it's Army during WW2.

Most assuredly I am NOT suggesting he is the next Nick Saban. I don't think he's close and I don't think he ever will be. I'm just comparing the perception of each being a jerk.

But he is a good coach. He did not luck into winning a championship at Indiana, BUT, he never would have under the old paradigm. Only with NIL/Portal could a program like Indiana win anything at all.

 

[CoolBreeze]

They were a more physical, disciplined and, fundamentally sound team than us, and it wasn't even close. That's what made it (for me) the most sickening part of the loss.

Ditto that. But the question is "how much more physical, disciplined and fundamentally sound would they have been had they played an SEC Schedule?" - I mean, any SEC Schedule let alone ours. Just do not see any SEC team competing for a championship in this environment. Now we just added another SEC game to the schedule. Not saying how great the SEC is just that you are going to get pummeled in this league in the regular season and if you have crimson on then doubly so.

 

[davefrat]

They were a more physical, disciplined and, fundamentally sound team than us, and it wasn't even close. That's what made it (for me) the most sickening part of the loss.

It's probably the worst loss by a Bama team that had something to play for that I can remember.

It was absolute, total domination from wire to wire.

Horrendous loss.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

It's probably the worst loss by a Bama team that had something to play for that I can remember.

It was absolute, total domination from wire to wire.

Horrendous loss.

Wommack (maybe)

 

[TideEngineer08]

It's probably the worst loss by a Bama team that had something to play for that I can remember.

It was absolute, total domination from wire to wire.

Horrendous loss.

That you can remember but it is not unprecedented.

Nebraska 38 Alabama 6