News Article: Inmate dies following botched Oklahoma execution, second execution delayed

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Not really. I mean, I could argue you can quit your jobs, show no income, and get plenty in government assistance to eat three meals a day. You have the CHOICE to work, to provide a better life for your family, etc.

I know you're no fan of life sentences instead of execution (when deemed appropriate), but that's a mighty strong twisting of facts to use those examples as 'having more rights', imo.

We can argue semantics all day.

 

[crimsonaudio]

We can argue semantics all day.

Yah, I just can't get past the fact that prisoners are stripped of virtually every right provided by the US Constitution, and you and I have the choice, day in and out, to remain free and do what we wish, or choose to act in a way that lands us in their shoes.

I can't see how anyone can argue they have 'more rights'.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Yah, I just can't get past the fact that prisoners are stripped of virtually every right provided by the US Constitution, and you and I have the choice, day in and out, to remain free and do what we wish, or choose to act in a way that lands us in their shoes.

I can't see how anyone can argue they have 'more rights'.

Are we free? Pennsylvania Supreme Court just ruled that police no longer need a warrant to search your car. NY and CT have tremendously restrictive gun laws that are contrary to the Constitution. The NSA is tracking our conversation as we speak. You can't hand out the Constitution at a public university in California unless you are in a "free speech" zone. Cops in Humboldt County, NV pull you over at a whim and take your cash and make you forfeit it under nebulous drug laws.

Again, we can argue "freedom" all day long. I'm out of this one until we turn it back around to the inmates getting whacked.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Are we free? Pennsylvania Supreme Court just ruled that police no longer need a warrant to search your car. NY and CT have tremendously restrictive gun laws that are contrary to the Constitution. The NSA is tracking our conversation as we speak. You can't hand out the Constitution at a public university in California unless you are in a "free speech" zone. Cops in Humboldt County, NV pull you over at a whim and take your cash and make you forfeit it under nebulous drug laws.

LOL, and every one of those things (along with a lot more) happens daily - legally - in prisons all over the US.

Yah, our rights are under attack, have been so for decades (centuries?), but suggesting prisoners have 'more rights' than we do is beyond ludicrous. I understand if that's stated as an exaggeration for emphasis, but you stated it as if you truly believe you'd be more free (have more rights) in prison, which I find curious.

 

[92tide]

LOL, and every one of those things (along with a lot more) happens daily - legally - in prisons all over the US.

Yah, our rights are under attack, have been so for decades (centuries?), but suggesting prisoners have 'more rights' than we do is beyond ludicrous. I understand if that's stated as an exaggeration for emphasis, but you stated it as if you truly believe you'd be more free (have more rights) in prison, which I find curious.

you don't get much more free than two hots and a cot

 

[CrimsonNagus]

The reactions and sympathy in the media for this convicted pile of human feces is sickening. Pouring out sympathy for a rapist murderer all because his execution hurt a little just makes no sense to me.

This just illustrates how screwed up in the head this country is, mercy for the murderer/rapist who buried a teen alive after shooting her; lynch mob for a racists who technically didn't break any laws.

 

[crimsonaudio]

you don't get much more free than two hots and a cot

I literally laughed aloud.

 

[Crimson1967]

How can we know someone on death row wasn't framed by some slimy cop?


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[crimsonaudio]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/28/innocent-death-penalty-study_n_5228854.html

 

[bamachile]

Well, I didn't want to hijack this into a pro/con death penalty thread, but seeing as it's already there...

My default stance is pro death penalty with well defined applications and limitations. I will gladly listen to arguments against the DP based on governmental concepts, effectiveness, or moral objections. I've changed my mind before, and it won't hurt me to change again if I become convinced I am wrong.

With that said, the one argument I generally reject is the "innocent people" argument. On the surface it sounds like the most damning argument against the DP, but wrongly acquitted and/or released violent criminals kill more innocent people than if everyone on death row was wrongly convicted. With the DP, due to human error and injustice, some innocent people will die. Without the DP, due to human error and injustice, some innocents will die. Neither you nor I are going to escape this argument without blood on our hands, and there's no sense in pretending we are. Either way, innocent people die due to our choice.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/28/innocent-death-penalty-study_n_5228854.html

More than 4 percent of inmates sentenced to death in the United States are probably innocent, according to a study published Monday that sent shock waves across the anti-death penalty community.

probably? not exactly a very accurate study.

 

[crimsonaudio]

probably? not exactly a very accurate study.

If you read further they mention that those were the cases most likely to be overturned upon appeal.

Dismiss all you want, but frankly, we KNOW >1% of those executed were innocent - where's the line? How many innocent people have to die at the hands of the state before it's too many? 2%? 5%? 10%?

Not sure how closely some of you follow our court system, but I find it kinda astonishing that ANYONE would want thee state to have the right to execute, as sadly comical as so many decisions handed down today are.

I wonder if some would be cavalier if it were you or someone you love wrongly sentenced...

 

[Crimson1967]

If there is only one innocent person on death row, that is one too many.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

This guy wasn't innocent so, frankly, I could careless if his execution was botched, the end result was the same and the world is a better place without him. He still got off light compared to what he put the victim through.

 

[bamachile]

If there is only one innocent person on death row, that is one too many.

While I agree with the sentiment, I also recognize that one life lost to an unjustly acquitted or paroled killer is one too many. The stark reality which no one on either side wants to face is that there is no moral high ground in this debate which allows no innocent lives to be lost. Innocent people will die with either choice. Maimonides notwithstanding, acquitting the guilty - or paroling the recalcitrant - also causes suffering, violence, and death.

Again, I'm not unconvinceable. I'm just not swayed by that argument. If I ever change my position, it would be more likely to come from a perception of systemic corruption or inequality of implementation.

 

[crimsonaudio]

While I agree with the sentiment, I also recognize that one life lost to an unjustly acquitted or paroled killer is one too many.

In many cases the reason these guys get out is because the prosecutor went for the death penalty and lost the case. Life without parole would be a perfectly acceptable alternative - it doesn't have to be 'death penalty or set them free'.

The stark reality which no one on either side wants to face is that there is no moral high ground in this debate which allows no innocent lives to be lost. Innocent people will die with either choice. Maimonides notwithstanding, acquitting the guilty - or paroling the recalcitrant - also causes suffering, violence, and death.

Again, I disagree - there are plenty of folks who aren't on death row that will never have the chance to harm an innocent person again. As long as life without the possibility of parole is an option, why risk killing even one innocent person?

 

[Bama Reb]

If there is only one innocent person on death row, that is one too many.

And if you polled all of the inmates in all of the prisons in the US, most every one of them will say they're innocent. In that regard, it should be fairly simple to find those that are innocent so that they can be released. Would getting them released into your custody be OK with you?

 

[TideEngineer08]

Again, I disagree - there are plenty of folks who aren't on death row that will never have the chance to harm an innocent person again. As long as life without the possibility of parole is an option, why risk killing even one innocent person?

If someone killed my wife or son, it would not be acceptable to me that he or she would be able to live out their life, even if it's behind bars. Frankly, I feel this way about anyone that has committed murder (or rape, or child molestation).

No, I don't want innocent people to die for something they were wrongly accused of. But for my position on the matter, I cannot get beyond my feelings expressed in my first sentence.

 

[crimsonaudio]

If someone killed my wife or son, it would not be acceptable to me that he or she would be able to live out their life, even if it's behind bars. Frankly, I feel this way about anyone that has committed murder (or rape, or child molestation).

No, I don't want innocent people to die for something they were wrongly accused of. But for my position on the matter, I cannot get beyond my feelings expressed in my first sentence.

I totally get it, and while there are various reasons, this is one that is why I'm on the fence.

 

[Bamaro]

This guy wasn't innocent so, frankly, I could careless if his execution was botched, the end result was the same and the world is a better place without him. He still got off light compared to what he put the victim through.

Where are the grammar police when you need them for this twofer:smile: