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Israel launches preemptive attacks against Iran (US bombs Iran)...

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Bamaro said:
How close they are is open for debate but whether they are working towards a bomb is pretty much a given. Attacking them is a bad idea however letting them proceed is worse.
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"We are working our way down a list of bad options." UN commander in Bosnia 1994
"This is the best bsad idea we have." CIA chief in the film, Argo.
 
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Bamaro said:
How close they are is open for debate but whether they are working towards a bomb is pretty much a given.
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Again you have Israel, India, and Pakistan with bombs. If we are asking the question of “who shouldn’t have a bomb” then we should start with “who has one already and shouldn’t”.

Israel has an expansionist party that is led by a guy who is actually charged with war crimes by the ICC yet they have a bomb

Pakistan is a Sunni Muslim country that constantly wars with its neighbor India over the border. Pakistan also harbored and directly funded high ranking Al-Qaeda members to include Osama bin Laden. Yet they have a bomb.

India…. Has a true fascist leader in its country in the form of Modi who sends the army with bulldozers to tear down Muslim villages in an effort to ‘cleanse’ India of it’s Muslim culture and go back to a Hindu nationalist state. Yet he has a bomb.

So it’s kinda hypocritical that Iran at 60% with no delivery capabilities is such a great and immediate threat to global security while every argument to why all 3 of the above countries should and Iran shouldn’t have them are nearly identical.

If there is one reason that Iran Shouldn’t have one it isn’t there ability to use one nor is it that they would use one. It’s because policing trade in the Gulf would be far worse for the Saudis and other Arab Gulf states because they could no longer just ignore Iranian naval forces or ask the US to make demands.

Bamaro said:
. Attacking them is a bad idea however letting them proceed is worse.
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That’s only because you aren’t considering the ramifications of attacking them. Ones that affect us directly. So far Iran has resisted the urge to blockade the Strait of Hormuz or told their Iraqi based groups to attack US assets. Once we attack directly those actions are a complete given. There are some real paranoia and uneasiness in the Gulf states of that happening because it puts all of them in a very very uncomfortable position. The US economy would suffer instantly and it could result in a far larger and more complicated Middle Eastern war between Arabs, Jews, and Persians.

The point is that this whole situation is far too complicated and will take more than two weeks to solve. The US’s involvement would be disastrous… how much so and how far reaching remains to be seen.
 
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Bamaro said:
How close they are is open for debate but whether they are working towards a bomb is pretty much a given. Attacking them is a bad idea however letting them proceed is worse.
Click to expand...
My feeling has been that if Israel believes that that Iran's development of a nuclear weapon has reached such a critical point then they need to land a force at the site capable of destroying the underground site. There are many unknowns involved in the US entering another war in the middle east considering the reactions of China, Russia, Turkey and many other unknowns.
 
UAH said:
My feeling has been that if Israel believes that that Iran's development of a nuclear weapon has reached such a critical point then they need to land a force at the site capable of destroying the underground site. There are many unknowns involved in the US entering another war in the middle east considering the reactions of China, Russia, Turkey and many other unknowns.
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If Israel takes care of it themselves the good for them. But the US getting involved creates chaos
 
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81usaf92 said:
Again you have Israel, India, and Pakistan with bombs. If we are asking the question of “who shouldn’t have a bomb” then we should start with “who has one already and shouldn’t”.
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Unknown about Iran is that the country is led by religious leaders who can (or not) authorize the use of a nuclear device against Israel once they have it.
It is hard to predict the behavior with religious fanatics
 
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81usaf92 said:
Again you have Israel, India, and Pakistan with bombs. If we are asking the question of “who shouldn’t have a bomb” then we should start with “who has one already and shouldn’t”.

Israel has an expansionist party that is led by a guy who is actually charged with war crimes by the ICC yet they have a bomb

Pakistan is a Sunni Muslim country that constantly wars with its neighbor India over the border. Pakistan also harbored and directly funded high ranking Al-Qaeda members to include Osama bin Laden. Yet they have a bomb.

India…. Has a true fascist leader in its country in the form of Modi who sends the army with bulldozers to tear down Muslim villages in an effort to ‘cleanse’ India of it’s Muslim culture and go back to a Hindu nationalist state. Yet he has a bomb.

So it’s kinda hypocritical that Iran at 60% with no delivery capabilities is such a great and immediate threat to global security while every argument to why all 3 of the above countries should and Iran shouldn’t have them are nearly identical.
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Iran is different from those as they (rather brazenly) support terrorist activities all over the globe.

Pakistan, India, nor Israel openly threaten to nuke other countries off the planet. Iran might not be will to act at the state level, but there's little question they would happily arm their terrorist groups with a nuke if they had the capability.
 
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UAH said:
My feeling has been that if Israel believes that that Iran's development of a nuclear weapon has reached such a critical point then they need to land a force at the site capable of destroying the underground site. There are many unknowns involved in the US entering another war in the middle east considering the reactions of China, Russia, Turkey and many other unknowns.
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What bothers me is that I don't know whose intelligence we're relying on. Just days ago, our DNI, flanked by civilian and military aides proclaimed Iran was no nuclear threat. Israel's may genuinely be better, but bias cannot be ignored. Remember that Bibi has been saying they were weeks away for more than a decade. I also cannot forget that Trump I was willing to accept Russian intelligence over our own establishment. There just is no avenue to certainty...
 
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TIDE-HSV said:
What bothers me is that I don't know whose intelligence we're relying on. Just days ago, our DNI, flanked by civilian and military aides proclaimed Iran was no nuclear threat. Israel's may genuinely be better, but bias cannot be ignored. Remember that Bibi has been saying they were weeks away for more than a decade. I also cannot forget that Trump I was willing to accept Russian intelligence over our own establishment. There just is no avenue to certainty...
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And we had solid intelligence that Saddam had WMDs.

It's really hard to know who really knows what's going on and what motivations are driving decisions...
 
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crimsonaudio said:
Israeli officials have told the Trump Administration they do not intend to wait two weeks for Iran to reach a deal to dismantle key parts of its nuclear program, like the Fordow Nuclear Facility, and that the Israel Defense Force could act alone before the deadline is up, two sources told Reuters.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1936524978998202615
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Not sure what it means since Israel has been bombing all Iranian nuclear Facilities (except Fordow) since June 13.
 
John Fetterman on X:

As I’ve long maintained, this was the correct move by @POTUS. Iran is the world’s leading sponsor of terrorism and cannot have nuclear capabilities. I’m grateful for and salute the finest military in the world.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1936577707589935552

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