Megachurch pastor admits to molesting underage girl

[crimsonaudio]

So yeah I think this thread is completely on point for what this story is about.

It doesn't remotely excuse your broad brush but you be you.

 

[gtowntide]

My take on these pedophiles is that they cannot be rehabilitated. They should never be around children or in a position of authority. This should be painted with a broad brush because it is everywhere.
There are reasons that victims do not come forward. Church leaders have looked the other way too long, unfortunately I don’t see that changing.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

My take on these pedophiles is that they cannot be rehabilitated. They should never be around children or in a position of authority. This should be painted with a broad brush because it is everywhere.
There are reasons that victims do not come forward. Church leaders have looked the other way too long, unfortunately I don’t see that changing.

Agreed that pedophiles can't be rehabilitated. And agreed that church leaders of all types have looked the other way for decades if not centuries.

The Catholic Church just about crumbled under the weight of its own pedophile scandal, though that one was mostly (not exclusively) men preying on boys. The scandal itself and the coverup reached far and wide throughout the world.

 

[Jon]

Agreed that pedophiles can't be rehabilitated. And agreed that church leaders of all types have looked the other way for decades if not centuries.

The Catholic Church just about crumbled under the weight of its own pedophile scandal, though that one was mostly (not exclusively) men preying on boys. The scandal itself and the coverup reached far and wide throughout the world.

The scandals were about mostly about boys because girls don't matter to the Catholic church. The Magdalene Laundries were institutionalized exploitation of girls for 100's of years. Sinead O'Connor forced us to have that conversation decades ago and she is still vilified for it. Joe Pesci publicly threatened her over it and was applauded for doing so. Those didn't end in Ireland until the late 90's and are just one example.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Involves politics, but it is an important part of the story.

Trump Spiritual Advisor Admits Molesting 12-Year-Old Girl
Pastor Robert Morris, founder of the Gateway Church, has admitted to abusing a 12-year-old girl. In chilling testimony, he gives disturbing details of how he preyed on young women, and despite all this, he still managed to become Trump's spiritual advisor. David Shuster breaks it down on Rebel HQ.

 

[81usaf92]

It doesn't remotely excuse your broad brush but you be you.

Well it would be like saying Sports are evil because people covered up and looked the other way for years in the Larry Nasser and Jerry Sandusky cases. If anyone thinks they are outliers then you are fooling yourself.

Man mixed with power and sexual lust is a dangerous combination.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The church has been dealing with immorality for literally thousands of years. The Apostle Paul addressed the church on multiple occasions about immoral behavior. The problem is how the current church has handled this issue. The gospel is for sinners, not for the "righteous" because there is no one righteous, not one. So the church and the gospel attract all kinds because that is what it was designed to do. Though sin is still something a true believer continues to struggle with once converting, even still there are and have long been mechanisms in place to handle immorality within the church. The problem is the modern-day evangelical church stopped administering church discipline decades upon decades ago. But make no mistake there are things the Bible tells the believers to do with a wayward member.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Far too many churches feel their only obligation is to handle the matter internally, in what they call a "Biblical manner". It's not. When they cover up these activities they become complicit in the activity itself as well as the cover up. The matter should have been reported to the police. Period. Full stop.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Far too many churches feel their only obligation is to handle the matter internally, in what they call a "Biblical manner". It's not. When they cover up these activities they become complicit in the activity itself as well as the cover up. The matter should have been reported to the police. Period. Full stop.

Yep, several years ago we reported a church member (not a staff member) for having an intimate relationship with an underage girl. The girl didn't even attend our church, but our pastor felt it was our responsibility to turn him in to authorities because the church found more than enough proof to believe it was going on.

 

[Jon]

Well it would be like saying Sports are evil because people covered up and looked the other way for years in the Larry Nasser and Jerry Sandusky cases. If anyone thinks they are outliers then you are fooling yourself.

Man mixed with power and sexual lust is a dangerous combination.

Don't forget Jim Jordan, he was an Ohio State wrestling coach while his players were asking for help as they were being molested. He did nothing

again, don't think my brush is too broad at all. Catholic Church, LDS, SBC, Evangelical Churches, these are places people go to prey on children. They get the benefit of the doubt, easy forgiveness, often women/girls get the blame regardless and then all they have to do is confess and/or repent

 

[crimsonaudio]

Far too many churches feel their only obligation is to handle the matter internally, in what they call a "Biblical manner". It's not. When they cover up these activities they become complicit in the activity itself as well as the cover up. The matter should have been reported to the police. Period. Full stop.

My former church reported a man to the authorities as soon as we found he had been inappropriately touching boys while teaching them. Despite policies in place to never have adults spend time one-on-one with children, this happened, but as soon as we found out, we reported it. I know he was charged, I don't know what happened after that.

How any church leader could do anything but follow the law is beyond me. Yes, they can be forgiven, but that does not mean they avoid rightful punishment under the law.

 

[92tide]

Don't forget Jim Jordan, he was an Ohio State wrestling coach while his players were asking for help as they were being molested. He did nothing

again, don't think my brush is too broad at all. Catholic Church, LDS, SBC, Evangelical Churches, these are places people go to prey on children. They get the benefit of the doubt, easy forgiveness, often women/girls get the blame regardless and then all they have to do is confess and/or repent and

it’s not explicitly religious, but we can add the boy scouts to that list too

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Don't forget Jim Jordan, he was an Ohio State wrestling coach while his players were asking for help as they were being molested. He did nothing

again, don't think my brush is too broad at all. Catholic Church, LDS, SBC, Evangelical Churches, these are places people go to prey on children. They get the benefit of the doubt, easy forgiveness, often women/girls get the blame regardless and then all they have to do is confess and/or repent and

You've pointed out a very true thing. I would venture to say the lion's share of churches do not produce these types of people, these types of people flock to the church to take advantage of what the church stands for and that is forgiveness and repentance. I don't know the reasons for churches covering it up, I really don't. It could be the element of embarrassment and not wanting negative press because many times negative press drives people away. If that is the case the irony is once it is found out, they get a hundred times the negative press.

The best thing is to report it, get the person or member out of the congregation, and move forward with what you were doing. Again, I do not know why churches decide to cover it up. I highly doubt it is because they condone the behavior. I do know shame and embarrassment play an enormous role in why people don't come forward in a lot of situations. It is a very powerful emotion and feeling that has driven people to take their own lives rather than come forward in a lot of situations.

 

[NationalTitles18]

My former church reported a man to the authorities as soon as we found he had been inappropriately touching boys while teaching them. Despite policies in place to never have adults spend time one-on-one with children, this happened, but as soon as we found out, we reported it. I know he was charged, I don't know what happened after that.

How any church leader could do anything but follow the law is beyond me. Yes, they can be forgiven, but that does not mean they avoid rightful punishment under the law.

Glad the right thing is done when it is.

While forgiveness and redemption are vital Christian principles, they are sometimes used as a tool to further bludgeon (and even create more) victims and too little is required in the way of not only repentance but also restoring the victim, which can’t be done in any true sense even when attempted.

 

[Crimson1967]

The church has been dealing with immorality for literally thousands of years. The Apostle Paul addressed the church on multiple occasions about immoral behavior. The problem is how the current church has handled this issue. The gospel is for sinners, not for the "righteous" because there is no one righteous, not one. So the church and the gospel attract all kinds because that is what it was designed to do. Though sin is still something a true believer continues to struggle with once converting, even still there are and have long been mechanisms in place to handle immorality within the church. The problem is the modern-day evangelical church stopped administering church discipline decades upon decades ago. But make no mistake there are things the Bible tells the believers to do with a wayward member.

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I have seen Christians compare Trump to Paul. Other than not being a drunkard, Trump is everything on this list Paul says not to associate with.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I have seen Christians compare Trump to Paul. Other than not being a drunkard, Trump is everything on this list Paul says not to associate with.

I've never heard anyone who claims to be a believer make that comparison. You may want to change your theological surroundings.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Glad the right thing is done when it is.

While forgiveness and redemption are vital Christian principles, they are sometimes used as a tool to further bludgeon (and even create more) victims and too little is required in the way of not only repentance but also restoring the victim, which can’t be done in any true sense even when attempted.

And to think that "putting them out of the congregation" is a tool the Bible uses to begin the repentance process. It is taught throughout the Bible that putting a church member out is just as much about putting them on the road of repentance as it is about punishment. Yet many churches keep them among the congregation as part of their repentance. Which is something you don't read in the Bible. LOL!

 

[NationalTitles18]

And to think that "putting them out of the congregation" is a tool the Bible uses to begin the repentance process. It is taught throughout the Bible that putting a church member out is just as much about putting them on the road of repentance as it is about punishment. Yet many churches keep them among the congregation as part of their repentance. Which is something you don't read in the Bible. LOL!

Too often churches don't focus on the victim at all unless it is to demonized or blame them and instead focus on rehabilitating the criminal. This is the church abandoning its core mission to minister to the powerless child victims in favor of a focus on "restoring" the perp. It's turning Biblical principles on their head.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

And to think that "putting them out of the congregation" is a tool the Bible uses to begin the repentance process. It is taught throughout the Bible that putting a church member out is just as much about putting them on the road of repentance as it is about punishment. Yet many churches keep them among the congregation as part of their repentance. Which is something you don't read in the Bible. LOL!

I was talking to some folks after church the other day and the question came up, "When did we stop excommunicating people?" At first the question seemed rhetorical, but after reading this post, I'm sort of tempted to look into this. After all, it sure seems like there was some point in history where it went from being a "legitimate threat" to "no threat at all" practically overnight.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Too often churches don't focus on the victim at all unless it is to demonized or blame them and instead focus on rehabilitating the criminal. This is the church abandoning its core mission to minister to the powerless child victims in favor of a focus on "restoring" the perp. It's turning Biblical principles on their head.

Yeah, I can't speak for those types of churches because I've never been a part of one who demonized the victim. I've been a part of two churches (unfortunately) where a member molested a child not a part of our church and another church where a member was having a sexual relationship with an underage girl who was also not a part of the church. But neither blamed the victims and both reported the perps to the authorities. I really don't know why anyone would demonize the victim and show sympathy to the perp. A church can still want restoration, repentance, and forgiveness for the perp. But it doesn't mean you don't take away a lot of church-going privileges, like going to church there.