Michigan Under Investigation For Sign Stealing

[uaintn]

Interesting that apparently none of the Big 10 coaches or ADs are saying this is not a big deal. Quite the contrary. If there was a faction supporting UM, I expect we would hear about it.

The Commish is getting into a very tight spot.

He sees a path to putting two teams into the playoff, which benefits the whole conference and provides a chance to claim they are the premiere cfb conference. UM is a giant university and very influential. He knows the nzaa won’t do anything for at least months. UM has crawled in a shell and is saying nothing apparently hoping that this will just blow over. He thought he could hide behind “we have to gather facts”. He only needed to buy about 10 weeks.

But now the other schools’ coaches and ADs are demanding he take action. He has a head coach with a history of flouting the rules who is ignoring questions and instead is discussing agriculture in press conferences. Media members who started out saying this wasn’t a big deal are changing their opinions. New reports keep fanning the flames. Details of meetings are leaking. And at least one head coach has gone on record as saying they can prove spies were in their stadium. Kicking the can down the road into sometime next summer may no longer be an option. He doesn't know what else may crawl out of the woodwork.

What do you do if another school refuses to play UM “because they cheat”?

The the gambling angle also bears consideration. Sure, Michigan was going to beat Nebraska. But knowing what plays the other team was calling would surely influence things like O/U, prop bets, the confidence you have taking the money line, etc.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Interesting that apparently none of the Big 10 coaches or ADs are saying this is not a big deal.

Why would they?

Quite the contrary. If there was a faction supporting UM, I expect we would hear about it.

Nobody in the Big Ten has ever liked Michigan.

The Commish is getting into a very tight spot.

Only if he's having an MRI done.

He sees a path to putting two teams into the playoff, which benefits the whole conference and provides a chance to claim they are the premiere cfb conference. UM is a giant university and very influential.

One has to wonder if the head of the conference can see the money coming into the conference from two teams in the playoff, why can't the other B1G members see the same thing?

He knows the nzaa won’t do anything for at least months. UM has crawled in a shell and is saying nothing apparently hoping that this will just blow over. He thought he could hide behind “we have to gather facts”. He only needed to buy about 10 weeks.

So now the B1G commissioner is in on the conspiracy as well as the NZAA?

But now the other schools’ coaches and ADs are demanding he take action. He has a head coach with a history of flouting the rules who is ignoring questions and instead is discussing agriculture in press conferences.

Harbaugh always discussed agriculture at PCs if you mean he slung.....

Media members who started out saying this wasn’t a big deal are changing their opinions.

Who said this? Names please along with links.

New reports keep fanning the flames. Details of meetings are leaking. And at least one head coach has gone on record as saying they can prove spies were in their stadium. Kicking the can down the road into sometime next summer may no longer be an option. He doesn't know what else may crawl out of the woodwork.

I'll keep the comment I have on the above section to myself.

What do you do if another school refuses to play UM “because they cheat”?

Any school that even tried that - none would - is likely to face severe financial penalties given TV deals. Nobody ducked out of playing SMU, and they got the death penalty. This isn't going to happen.

The the gambling angle also bears consideration. Sure, Michigan was going to beat Nebraska. But knowing what plays the other team was calling would surely influence things like O/U, prop bets, the confidence you have taking the money line, etc.

What you just listed is among the many reasons (besides not being a complete fool) I don't gamble.

Anyone who after scandals from the Black Sox Scandal to drugs in cycling to crooked referees in basketball to so many other things - anyone who bets on a sport and later discovers they might have lost money because of an unseen variable like, oh I don't know, the principals involved cheating....such people deserve to be laughed at for not having learned anything from the entire history of sports.


Michigan should get hit with a hammer, but how about some Big Ten teams actually BEAT THEM ON THE FIELD and quit whining?

 

[Bama_N_Va]

Michigan should get hit with a hammer, but how about some Big Ten teams actually BEAT THEM ON THE FIELD and quit whining?

You are talking MASSIVE SENSE right now and we just can't have that on a social media forum!!!!

 

[selmaborntidefan]

You are talking MASSIVE SENSE right now and we just can't have that on a social media forum!!!!

Well, that's what most of this is, let's be honest.

Nobody would care if this was Vanderbilt or Purdue other than to chuckle and say, "Well, they need all the help they can get, but it's not working for them!"

 

[crimsonaudio]

Interesting that apparently none of the Big 10 coaches or ADs are saying this is not a big deal. Quite the contrary. If there was a faction supporting UM, I expect we would hear about it.

There are reports that there was a conference-wide call between the B1G commissioner and HCs earlier this week where some schools threatened to not play scheduled games against UM unless this is addressed.

I don't think the B1G does much more than slap UM on the wrist - 'the money was just too much' and all that - but it's obvious this is pretty well known and exceeds the norms by a wide margin.

Once again we have a CFB issue that was literally created by the NCAA's negligence.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

There are reports that there was a conference-wide call between the B1G commissioner and HCs earlier this week where some schools threatened to not play scheduled games against UM unless this is addressed.

I don't think the B1G does much more than slap UM on the wrist - 'the money was just too much' and all that - but it's obvious this is pretty well known and exceeds the norms by a wide margin.

Once again we have a CFB issue that was literally created by the NCAA's negligence.

Same thing with Cam Newton.

We went from "doesn't matter if the school knew about it" to a newly invented "loophole" - all because the NZAA decided, "Nobody wants to see an Oregon vs TCU national championship game."

 

[colbysullivan]

And he gone....

Connor Stalions has been relieved of his job duties with the football program, as reported on Friday night by Yahoo’s Dan Wetzel.

Amazing it took this long

 

[CB4]

And he gone....

Connor Stalions has been relieved of his job duties with the football program, as reported on Friday night by Yahoo’s Dan Wetzel.

Appropriately, Michigan AD Warde Manuel kept the termination of Connor Stalions clear, concise, and simple and in a communication he was certain Connor would understand.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Amazing it took this long

look, we got grief when we had to dismiss those four players for that robbery forever ago.
"why did it take Alabama X days to get rid of known criminals?"

you can know what your course of action is going to be but still you have to allow due process to play out. I won't fall Michigan Michigan on that particular point.

Unless, of course, something else arises of which we are currently unaware that makes this look even worse. I suspect it will.

 

[colbysullivan]

look, we got grief when we had to dismiss those four players for that robbery forever ago.
"why did it take Alabama X days to get rid of known criminals?"

you can know what your course of action is going to be but still you have to allow due process to play out. I won't fall Michigan Michigan on that particular point.

Unless, of course, something else arises of which we are currently unaware that makes this look even worse. I suspect it will.

A different time, to be sure. We have tons of video evidence of Stallions’ wrongdoing. I don’t know the state of Michigan’s employment laws, but in my state you can be let go for any reason, at any time. I’m guessing it took so long because most people dismissed this as not being a big deal. The story has continued to escalate pretty much every day, and they finally took action. Not that it matters now.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

A different time, to be sure. We have tons of video evidence of Stallions’ wrongdoing.

Has the tie been conclusively established to Michigan?
And has Michigan been interviewed about it?

I don’t know the state of Michigan’s employment laws, but in my state you can be let go for any reason, at any time. I’m guessing it took so long because most people dismissed this as not being a big deal.

Why do so many posters here keep making these kinds of assertions?

WHO has said "this isn't a big deal?"

You don't announce a conclusion before an investigation is completed.

The story has continued to escalate pretty much every day, and they finally took action. Not that it matters now.

That's media, not the NZAA.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

SELMA RANT:
Why do so many of you posting here keep repeating the cliche about sign stealing not being "a big deal?"

WHO SAID THIS???
I want names.

The Athletic polled 50 NZAA coaches as to the severity of it.
1- not a big deal
5 - a nuclear bomb level big deal

46% rated it a 5, and 94% rated it 3 or above.
TWO - out of 50 coaches - rated it below a 3.

Michigan should be punished, say 94% of CFB coaches in our poll. What else did it reveal?

How bad are the Michigan cheating allegations? Does Jim Harbaugh have plausible deniability? Our CFB coaches poll reveals that and more.

theathletic.com

I do a Google search, and I can't find anybody who says "this is no big deal", nobody of consequence anyway.

So who said this?

 

[selmaborntidefan]

And I say facing a fastball is an entirely different conversation than facing a known play in football.

I'm simply comparing a team that people dismiss as cheating that won a championship with a team that people dismiss as cheating who didn't. It doesn't have to align at every single point.

If your defense is filled with competent talent, i.e., not Nebraska or Purdue, and you know exactly what play the offense is going to run, stopping them becomes infinitely easier.

Only if all 11 guys know what they're supposed to do.

Now when you come up against a team just as talented as you are or better, then sure knowing what they are going to run is no guarantee you can stop them.

There's no guarantee you can ever stop them, but it's pretty obvious why the rule exists and also that Michigan only did this because they thought it would help. Same with Houston. It's just that we have since found out that - whoo boy - other teams were doing it. I suspect we're going to find out the same here.

In fact, don't be surprised to find out the teams crying the loudest aren't doing the most similar thing.

Look at Michigan’s schedule other than Ohio State. There is no one else. Please don’t say Penn State either.

Could TF please drop this argument about anyone's schedule?

If:
a) an SEC team
b) a B1G team
c) Florida State or Clemson or Miami
d) USC or Oregon
e) Oklahoma or Texas

goes undefeated, IT DOES NOT MATTER who they play.

They're going to be in the playoff.

 

[editder]

Last time Michigan played a team they couldn’t steal signals from, they gave up 51 points and lost to a bad TCU team. Makes you think.

To the same team that went toe to toe with the team we destroyed in the bowl game.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Why can't the guys who are going to cheat like this have the common sense to make sure they send a text message EARLY in the scandal that says, "This is a violation of NCAA rules. Please do not text me again else I will notify my school and the NCAA. The only reason I'm not now is because you may not be aware of this, and I don't want to cause you trouble based solely on your zeal."

And then use the spare phone that you destroy (the "burner") or none at all.

I mean, you don't have to be overly bright to think about laying down the denial, do you????

You would have made a really good Detective.
Good ones always try to think like the criminal to figure out how to catch and convict them.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I'm simply comparing a team that people dismiss as cheating that won a championship with a team that people dismiss as cheating who didn't. It doesn't have to align at every single point.





Only if all 11 guys know what they're supposed to do.



There's no guarantee you can ever stop them, but it's pretty obvious why the rule exists and also that Michigan only did this because they thought it would help. Same with Houston. It's just that we have since found out that - whoo boy - other teams were doing it. I suspect we're going to find out the same here.

In fact, don't be surprised to find out the teams crying the loudest aren't doing the most similar thing.




Could TF please drop this argument about anyone's schedule?

If:
a) an SEC team
b) a B1G team
c) Florida State or Clemson or Miami
d) USC or Oregon
e) Oklahoma or Texas

goes undefeated, IT DOES NOT MATTER who they play.

They're going to be in the playoff.

My argument has nothing to do with whether they would deserve a playoff berth. It is that Michigan knowing the play their opponent will run, considering the talent of the team opposing them means they are almost guaranteed to stop the play. And that when they come up against a competent opponent, that somewhat goes out the window.

In other words, the adage “it doesn’t matter if you know what the other team is going to run, you’ve still got to stop it” does NOT hold against Rutgers. But it does against Ohio State. And Michigan plays ONLY one “Ohio State” all year.

That’s all I am saying here. There is no chance whatsoever any Big Ten team has a shot at Michigan if the Wolverines are guilty of these crimes except Ohio State. It would be different if they were playing Alabama’s schedule. Or even Georgia’s.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Thing is, it's hard for me to actually root for the side of the NZAA, because they were such shameless hypocrites for so long.

I don't know if most folks know this detail of history, but it's worth noting how the NZAA became powerful, which is more sleazy than anything Michigan is known (at this point) to have actually done.

Basically, a bunch of fearmongers looked at the STADIUM ATTENDANCE drop in CFB from 1949 to 1950 (about 6%) and also noticed the biggest drop (over 15%) was in the states with the most TV sets (the Mid-Atlantic and also a 28% drop in one year in New England). These heads of universities and powerbrokers - who at the time formed what was loosely known as the NZAA (not really organized yet) - drew the "obvious conclusion" from this that fans of, say, Maryland were staying home and not attending games at the school because, well, they were getting their football fix at home by watching teams not named Maryland play games.

This - to me - is one of the most ludicrous statements of faith ever given, but almost everybody believed it. In fact, they still believed this nonsense well into the late 1980s.

The conferences all pooled their opinions together to help modernize the NZAA, but they had a problem.

Penn (the Ivy League one) had been broadcasting games locally for over ten years. And their AD tried two tracks with the group meeting they had: 1) TV could be our great ally by making more people care about the sport; 2) uh, you agreeing together to not televise games is probably a violation of the Sherman Antitrust law.

When Penn proposed to sue on antitrust grounds, the other NZAA schools all ganged up on them and said they'd boycott games with them - EVEN THOUGH PENN OFFERED TO SHARE TV MONEY WITH THEM!!!! Penn informed the NZAA they were suing and - in minutes - the NZAA fired off telegrams and notified the networks that "Penn is not a member in good standing" and began demanding that the good members cancel their games.

At the exact same time, Notre Dame cut a deal with a network and told the NZAA where they could stick it.


But you want to hear the WORST part and why the NZAA ain't nothing but a Mafia group?

Out of one side of their mouths, their condemned this whole thing by Penn and Notre Dame.
Out the other - they told Notre Dame that the NZAA got 60% of the proceeds if the Irish did it.

Both Penn and Notre Dame decided it wasn't worth the risk and folded - and because of that, the NZAA spent the next three decades telling teams how often they could be on TV. And then they accumulated power they didn't have and threw their weight around.

So while Michigan may be pondscum, they're still better than the four-letter word.

I'm not rooting for the NZAA either. My vote would be to have a number of teams pull out of the NZAA and form another group. If that ever happens I believe the Dam will break and a mass defection will take place. The NZAA is full of politics, corruption, and out of date rules that they only follow when it suits their purpose. In my opinion we should secede from that 'UnHoly Union'.

 

[colbysullivan]

Has the tie been conclusively established to Michigan?
And has Michigan been interviewed about it?




Why do so many posters here keep making these kinds of assertions?

WHO has said "this isn't a big deal?"

You don't announce a conclusion before an investigation is completed.



That's media, not the NZAA.

I have heard TONS of people online and in person say this isn’t a big deal.

 

[Perrett4Bama]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1720583444755775701

 

[Tidelines]

If it would of been Bama doing it Kanell would be first in line with a torch. The only coach that should be able to steal signs is Pete Golding ( just to level the playing field so to speak. )