Monday Night Football - Damar Hamlin

[jthomas666]

Baseball and lacrosse players die from less extreme hits to their chests. Scary.

My son's a lacrosse player. I had to get him a new chest protector because they upped the safety requirements.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Had a cardiologist on Morning Joe talk about that condition this morning. Not only does it require a sudden blow, but apparently, the blow has to take place at just the right time during the heart's electrical cycle. So this was like the perfect storm of horrible.

I know folks brought up the Dale Earnhardt fatal crash and not to be “that” guy but:

1) common sense should tell folks a sudden stop at 167 mph is more impacting on the body than a flipping and rolling crash where the energy is gradually dissipating. Think of that like this: the more the car absorbed, the less the body absorbed - and vice versa. Yeah, it didn’t “look” bad TO THE CAR on video but that meant he took the brunt of it.

2) Earnhardt also was killed because it was a perfect storm of angles and speed, with the angle of impact determined largely because of the collision with Ken Scraper’s car…which is why Schrader lived and Earnhardt died (true, Dale wasn’t wearing wearing a HANS but neither was Schrader).

3) so yes it IS kind of similar in that “didn’t look that bad” and the perfect storm of events.

There are circumstances that cause things you couldn’t re-create in a million years except on computer - this appears to be one of them.

 

[We_are_Bama]

There is nothing at all wrong in these situations with just WAITING. You don't have to postpone the game immediately. Wait. Gather all the facts you can. Make your decision with the most information you have available.

It does not have to be that they had cynical motives in waiting to make the call.

Exactly. Nothing at all wrong with a wait and see approach

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I've watched and rewatched the hit in slo-mo, and I just don't see any blow to the chest. What I see is a routine tackle. I hope it doesn't turn out that he has an underlying cardiac condition...

 

[DzynKingRTR]

I've watched and rewatched the hit in slo-mo, and I just don't see any blow to the chest. What I see is a routine tackle. I hope it doesn't turn out that he has an underlying cardiac condition...

reminds me of Hank Gathers

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

I heard on JOX this morning that his vital signs have returned to normal. Hope that is true.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I've watched and rewatched the hit in slo-mo, and I just don't see any blow to the chest. What I see is a routine tackle. I hope it doesn't turn out that he has an underlying cardiac condition...

That was actually my first thought. It wasn’t a straight chest shot.

But the NFL has bigger problems if they missed something obvious, too. Wouldn’t be the first or second or third time for that.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Here's the link to the YouTube. If anything, it appears that they bang helmets...

Hamlin hit

 

[Go Bama]

From WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/01/03/damar-hamlin-injury-update/

The game, stopped during the first quarter, will not be resumed this week, the NFL announced Tuesday. The league said that it has yet to decide whether it could be finished at a later date. The NFL made no changes to its schedule of games this weekend, the final week of its regular season.

 

[CB4]

I read somewhere during all this that they found the pounding on the chest before starting CPR to be ineffective. Some of our resident medical personnel may confirm/deny what they know on this. I’d try to find where I’ve read that but I’ve been all over the place. It might have even been here.

it’s called the precordial thump. It was removed from CPR training years ago because it wasnt proven to be effective. It was better to initiate standard CPR procedures immediately.

Precordial thump - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Lucky Jack]

I know folks brought up the Dale Earnhardt fatal crash and not to be “that” guy but:

1) common sense should tell folks a sudden stop at 167 mph is more impacting on the body than a flipping and rolling crash where the energy is gradually dissipating. Think of that like this: the more the car absorbed, the less the body absorbed - and vice versa. Yeah, it didn’t “look” bad TO THE CAR on video but that meant he took the brunt of it.

2) Earnhardt also was killed because it was a perfect storm of angles and speed, with the angle of impact determined largely because of the collision with Ken Scraper’s car…which is why Schrader lived and Earnhardt died (true, Dale wasn’t wearing wearing a HANS but neither was Schrader).

3) so yes it IS kind of similar in that “didn’t look that bad” and the perfect storm of events.

There are circumstances that cause things you couldn’t re-create in a million years except on computer - this appears to be one of them.

His choice of helmet and seat belt position didn't help, either.

 

[TideEngineer08]

3) so yes it IS kind of similar in that “didn’t look that bad” and the perfect storm of events.

That's the only reason I mentioned it. Plus the factor of it playing out on live TV.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I've watched and rewatched the hit in slo-mo, and I just don't see any blow to the chest. What I see is a routine tackle. I hope it doesn't turn out that he has an underlying cardiac condition...

To me it looks like his chest takes a direct blow from the Bengal player's helmet.

 

[HSV_1969]

My son's a lacrosse player. I had to get him a new chest protector because they upped the safety requirements.

I was watching the NFL game last night, and I almost immediately thought about the possibility of cardiac arrest due to a blow to the chest.
Though I was not present at the baseball game in 2016, I had some good friends who saw a similar thing happen to a Bob Jones HS baseball player. He squared to bunt, and got a hit directly in the chest with the baseball. Those present said he winced, briefly froze, and then dropped to the ground. His heart stopped, and if not for a couple of parents that were nurses coming out of the stands to administer CPR, he would have died.
The player thankfully made a full recovery. Here's hoping that Damar Hamlin is also able to make a full recovery.

Here's a link to the al.com story from 2016:
Bob Jones Baseball player injury

Story with more details in USA Today:
USA Today story

 

[selmaborntidefan]

His choice of helmet and seat belt position didn't help, either.

Yes, that was part of the perfect storm as well..

 

[NationalTitles18]

Timely resuscitation and defibrillation are key to survival. Better recognition and training as well as AED availability have greatly increased survivability.

"In human cases, resuscitation within 3 minutes resulted in a survival rate of 25% (17 of 68 cases); when resuscitation was prolonged beyond 3 minutes, the survival rate dropped to 3% (1 of 38 cases).7,21 The total survival rate from CC is approximately 15%,7,21 which has improved from 10% in 2001." - this was from 2009

Commotio Cordis

Commotio cordis is blunt, nonpenetrating trauma to the chest resulting in irregular heart rhythm and often leading to sudden death. This article presents the epidemiology, variables leading to commotio cordis, theories on predisposing factors, diagnosis, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.

"There has been a progressive decline in fatality related to commotio cordis episodes. Survival during the initial years of the US Registry (1970-1993) was only 10%. During the most recent years for which data are available (2006-2012), survival has increased to 58%. [5] This can be attributed to earlier recognition of a commotio cordis event and earlier commencement of CPR and public-access defibrillation using increasingly available AEDs. " - the most recent available data is 10 years old even though this topic was updated sometime today

Commotio Cordis: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

Sudden unexpected cardiac death that occurs in young people during sports participation is usually associated with previously diagnosed or undiagnosed structural or primary electrical cardiac abnormalities. Examples of such abnormalities include hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, anomalous origin of a...

emedicine.medscape.com

I hope we hear encouraging news soon.

 

[AUDub]

I've watched and rewatched the hit in slo-mo, and I just don't see any blow to the chest. What I see is a routine tackle. I hope it doesn't turn out that he has an underlying cardiac condition...

Look at Higgins' right shoulder.

 

[Toddrn]

To me it looks like his chest takes a direct blow from the Bengal player's helmet.

To me it looks like 85's right shoulder hits him square in the chest. He also banged his head on the turf pretty good.

 

[Con]

To me it looks like 85's right shoulder hits him square in the chest. He also banged his head on the turf pretty good.

He tackled Higgins like some kids do when they are new to football. They don't use their pads and take the shot right in the chest. He just didn't have time to get his shoulder pads down to make the tackle last night.

 

[AUDub]

Which begs the question, how does this not happen more? Could it suggest he has an underlying condition that has been undiagnosed?

CC can take place when the heart has no defects whatsoever.

It's all a matter of timing. There's a small window, visible on ECG's illustrated here:

that will trigger VF, a fatal arrhythmia if not treated promptly.