Musk acquiring Twitter...

NationalTitles18

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And Musk mentioned that in the interview above - removing posts and a time-out / suspensions would be a far better move as it allows the lines of communication to remain open while stopping the dangerous rhetoric before it builds.
It's already built. He had his chance and decided to foment political violence. His followers are still at the ready.

Do you choose to ignore this or are you just that married to the concept that no one should ever be permanently banned from a platform (especially since that happens here)?
 
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92tide

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And Musk mentioned that in the interview above - removing posts and a time-out / suspensions would be a far better move as it allows the lines of communication to remain open while stopping the dangerous rhetoric before it builds.
iirc, he got a couple of warnings before getting banned for good.
 

NationalTitles18

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iirc, he got a couple of warnings before getting banned for good.
He did - and got away with breaking rules that would have had me or you banned far earlier, simply because he is rich and powerful.

So can we include fairness in this?

Can we also include being a clear and present danger to society?

The man is rich/powerful enough to have his own social media company now. It's not like he needs twitter or that twitter has an obligation to give him a platform.
 
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92tide

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He did - and got away with breaking rules that would have had me or you banned far earlier, simply because he is rich and powerful.

So can we include fairness in this?

Can we also include being a clear and present danger to society?

The man is rich/powerful enough to have his own social media company now. It's not like he needs twitter or that twitter has an obligation to give him a platform.
next time it will totally work
 
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crimsonaudio

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It's already built. He had his chance and decided to foment political violence. His followers are still at the ready?

Do you choose to ignore this or are you just that married to the concept that no one should ever be permanently banned from a platform (especially since that happens here)?
I think a more proactive approach could have helped avoid the rhetoric that lead to Jan 6. Several people at the larger social media sites have admitted as much.

Comparing the policies of Twitter, which really is a world-wide social 'town square' with a small forum like ours is comparing apples to anvils. I think the ACLU said it well:
"“Like it or not, President Trump is one of the most important political figures in this country, and the public has a strong interest in hearing his speech."

I never followed Trump and never will, I find him detestable. But that doesn't mean he should be silenced from a space that's so integral as to how many communicate now.
 

NationalTitles18

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I think a more proactive approach could have helped avoid the rhetoric that lead to Jan 6. Several people at the larger social media sites have admitted as much.

Comparing the policies of Twitter, which really is a world-wide social 'town square' with a small forum like ours is comparing apples to anvils. I think the ACLU said it well:
"“Like it or not, President Trump is one of the most important political figures in this country, and the public has a strong interest in hearing his speech."

I never followed Trump and never will, I find him detestable. But that doesn't mean he should be silenced from a space that's so integral as to how many communicate now.
So just forget what he's already used the platform for - Spreading hate, disinformation that gets people killed, and provoking his followers to insurrection?

There's plenty of white supremacists, insurrectionists, and others who would love to be on twitter. I don't think twitter owes any of them anything any more than TF does.
 

JDCrimson

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But aren't there constitutional laws about spreading hate and incitement in public forums already? These same laws and constitutional principles can be applied in a digital or virtual setting as well, right? It's just a matter of doing it.

As for Trump or any other delinquent, if you are going to spend all your time in detention for failure to follow the rules, you a reach point where you just need to expel the delinquent.

I don't agree with the rationale that Trump is being treated unfairly.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I think a more proactive approach could have helped avoid the rhetoric that lead to Jan 6. Several people at the larger social media sites have admitted as much.

Comparing the policies of Twitter, which really is a world-wide social 'town square' with a small forum like ours is comparing apples to anvils. I think the ACLU said it well:
"“Like it or not, President Trump is one of the most important political figures in this country, and the public has a strong interest in hearing his speech."

I never followed Trump and never will, I find him detestable. But that doesn't mean he should be silenced from a space that's so integral as to how many communicate now.
Since the 1st Amendment is not involved, I don't think he has a right to be heard on all platforms. Without Twitter, he would never have been elected (as he admits). Without Twitter, there very well never have been a Jan. 6...
 

NationalTitles18

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Since the 1st Amendment is not involved, I don't think he has a right to be heard on all platforms. Without Twitter, he would never have been elected (as he admits). Without Twitter, there very well never have been a Jan. 6...
When someone tries to destroy the town they don't deserve access to the town square. They shouldn't be given access to the town square, especially since they've never given up on destroying it.

I'm all for promoting ideals and ideas like "free speech" (although free speech has zero to do with it). I'm all for communication that is respectful, mutual, and productive.

That said, prudence and pragmatism dictate that at times one has to abandon ideals/ideas for what is good. Ideologues are sometimes blinded by their ideology and to their own and others' detriment.

Communication that is one sided and done by a bully hell bent on making everyone subservient and geared toward fomenting violence to place them in power is not productive in any way whatsoever. It is counterproductive and destructive - and we are literally talking about destroying our society.

And some seem OK with that, for..ideals?

I'll never understand it.

Everything has a limit. If a failed coup doesn't drive it home I don't think anything will.
 

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I’m seeing a lot of argument that Trump back on Twitter would really tilt to the Dems’ advantage by serving as a reminder of what an offensive clown he is. I’m not confident which way it might break as to whether it would hurt or help him.

I guess it’s lucky I don’t make the decision…I just might require him to only tweet on even days of the week after 5 o’clock with an avatar showing him with a buzz cut hairdo.
 
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crimsonaudio

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I’m seeing a lot of argument that Trump back on Twitter would really tilt to the Dems’ advantage by serving as a reminder of what an offensive clown he is. I’m not confident which way it might break as to whether it would hurt or help him.
I think they're probably correct - his core group of followers would be happy but I think most Americans are sick of his stupidity. The vote totals in 2020 showed this, IMO - Biden wasn't a strong candidate as much as he wasn't Trump.

And Trump has stated he's not coming back, he's staying on that new platform he's on. Granted, his ego is so big that may or may not be true, but that's what's been stated (according to Musk).
 
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crimsonaudio

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Since the 1st Amendment is not involved, I don't think he has a right to be heard on all platforms. Without Twitter, he would never have been elected (as he admits). Without Twitter, there very well never have been a Jan. 6...
I don't think anyone is claiming this as a 'right'. Both Musk and the ACLU are saying that Twitter has become that 'town square' and like it or not, Trump is a large enough political figure that he needs to be allowed.

Worth noting that even Musk has walked back from his 'free speech absolutist' talk early on - he mentions suspensions, removing tweets, etc. now.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I don't think anyone is claiming this as a 'right'. Both Musk and the ACLU are saying that Twitter has become that 'town square' and like it or not, Trump is a large enough political figure that he needs to be allowed.

Worth noting that even Musk has walked back from his 'free speech absolutist' talk early on - he mentions suspensions, removing tweets, etc. now.
Whether you realize it or not, you are advancing an argument for a "right," and also a free speech position. I don't care how big he is. When he was on the platform before, he used it for dis and misinformation, outright lies in fact. When he comes back, he'll pick up exactly where he left off. There is no "need" for him to be allowed. This will just have to be one of those "agree to disagree" matters...
 
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Bamaro

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I think a more proactive approach could have helped avoid the rhetoric that lead to Jan 6. Several people at the larger social media sites have admitted as much.

Comparing the policies of Twitter, which really is a world-wide social 'town square' with a small forum like ours is comparing apples to anvils. I think the ACLU said it well:
"“Like it or not, President Trump is one of the most important political figures in this country, and the public has a strong interest in hearing his speech."

I never followed Trump and never will, I find him detestable. But that doesn't mean he should be silenced from a space that's so integral as to how many communicate now.
He wasn't banned for his stupid opinions. He was banned for his lies after lies after lies.
 

crimsonaudio

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Whether you realize it or not, you are advancing an argument for a "right," and also a free speech position. I don't care how big he is. When he was on the platform before, he used it for dis and misinformation, outright lies in fact. When he comes back, he'll pick up exactly where he left off. There is no "need" for him to be allowed. This will just have to be one of those "agree to disagree" matters...
I'm merely telling you what Musk and the ACLU are saying. I don't care if trump remains banned, I prefer twitter without him.

My point is this: Musk will almost certainly end up owning twitter, and these changes are likely following. We can debate as to whether or not they will be positives, but with precious-little data as to exactly what Musk will be changing, and how it's implemented, we're all just guessing.

Maybe I'm the optimist of the bunch but I'm simply betting that the guy that's upended several well-established markets with new ways of tackling problems finds a better way to do so than the previous people running twitter did.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I'm merely telling you what Musk and the ACLU are saying. I don't care if trump remains banned, I prefer twitter without him.

My point is this: Musk will almost certainly end up owning twitter, and these changes are likely following. We can debate as to whether or not they will be positives, but with precious-little data as to exactly what Musk will be changing, and how it's implemented, we're all just guessing.

Maybe I'm the optimist of the bunch but I'm simply betting that the guy that's upended several well-established markets with new ways of tackling problems finds a better way to do so than the previous people running twitter did.
AND - they are basically advancing a 1st Amendment argument in a nongovernmental environment where it doesn't belong. As far as improving Twitter, I couldn't care less, since the only time I visit is when I have to click on one of your Twitter links here to see if it's worthwhile. Other than than that, I literally don't have a dog in that fight. However, I'm not an optimist. I think he's after power, as he always has been. I think he intends to use Twitter to try to reelect Trump, whom he thinks will then be obligated to him...
 
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