Paterno to get his 111 vacated wins restored

[NationalTitles18]

Here's why I believe taking away or giving back the wins matters: In any sport, the underlying assumption is a trust that the other team is following the rules set forth by law, by the institution,, and by the sport's governing body. In this case the law was not followed, the institution's own rules were not followed and/or did not comply with the law, and the sport's rules were violated. These actions caused Paterno and Penn St to gain an unfair competitive advantage. Just think if When they learned of Sandusky's actions they had reported and fired him. This was, after all, a man responsible in large part for PSU being known as Linebacker U. He was responsible for years upon year of defensive success. He put together championship defenses over many years. He was in line to succeed Paterno. He was a very important man for Penn St football. Equivalent to a Ken Donahue or a Bill Oliver over decades of football. Then it all changed. And people were terribly surprised when he "retired". There was a lot of talk. A lot of consternation. Only a few really knew what had happened. And they chose to keep it quiet to protect their own legacies. To protect their place in history.
So, if you ask me, I think the right action would be to take that place away. Take away the wins and that helps. The other course of action since the wins have been restored is to trumpet loudly every time Penn St or Joe Paterno are mentioned their failures caused by their unimaginable selfishness which directly lead to a number of children being tortured and scarred for life. To tarnish their reputation and impugn their actions every time they are mentioned. To make a mockery of their "success". And that is what I plan to do.

 

[colbysullivan]

Sandusky is the one who should be punished, not the school. The players had nothing to do with it

PSU shouldn't even exist anymore, IMO

 

[NationalTitles18]

Sandusky is the one who should be punished, not the school. The players had nothing to do with it

PSU shouldn't even exist anymore, IMO

The reason it does exist?

Money.

The reason the post-season ban was lifted early?

Money.

The reason PSU football was not given the death penalty?

Money.

 

[TDBama78]

This is a bunch of horse manure. SMH

 

[theballguy]

The reason it does exist?

Money.

The reason the post-season ban was lifted early?

Money.

The reason PSU football was not given the death penalty?

Money.

As they say, follow the money.

 

[BamaJama17]

Screw you NCAA. Give Alabama their 21 wins back. But seriously screw your corrupted organization.

 

[Al A Bama]

So, when will we get OUR WINS back?

We need to BOMBARD the NCAA with letters, e-mails, etc.!

My mother and father always taught me what was RIGHT was RIGHT and what was WRONG was WRONG!

I am irritated to the nth degree until this WRONG is made RIGHT!

 

[KrAzY3]

And even after the dismissal, Sandusky was still granted full access to PSU AD facilities.

Yeah, I think in a lot of people's minds, they are fixed on the later event, in which a Penn State coach actually witnessed a rape occurring (and did nothing). This was well after allegations has surfaced and Sandusky was dismissed because of those (if I recall correctly it was not even the first allegations, but those were supposedly investigated by those hard working cops...). That's the part that I can't fathom, some people still act like Joe might not have known. They got rid of Sandusky, he was supposed to replace Joe, of course he knew! And then a coach went up and told him he saw Sandsusky raping a child. Joe knew his buddy, his protege was a child rapist and had all the opportunity to take action that put a stop to it. He refused, and that makes him an accessory to the rapes in my mind. It's enough to make one wonder what else might have been going up there at that sick place.

 

[theballguy]

I cannot imagine why Paterno didn't report this thing himself. First, for moral reasons -- he was supposed to be a devout Catholic and all, secondly, he had very little to gain by *not* reporting it. This to me is up there as one of the greatest colossal blunders/moral failures anyone has ever made -- ever. Who in the world would have come down on him for reporting this when he had the chance? Football and work legacy be damned. There is no reason to give these wins back to him or the school.

 

[Bama-94-00]

Appears that Joe Paterno will have his vacated wins restored:

LINKAGE

Not sure why but I'm pretty sure this will not even come close to having his "legacy" restored.

Court settlement of PSU's lawsuit against the NCAA.

 

[CoastGhost]

Vacated games are stupid - the game was played on the field. I like how the Old Testament folks handled it - scratch your name off all the rocks and pretend you never existed.

 

[Gr8hope]

Lots of people see this as a legal matter only. I feel it is both. Law enforcement can prosecute where appropriate and civil court can award penalties. The NCAA can also address the cover up to protect the football program, allowed use of the athletic facilities, and the harm it did to the integrity of college sports. The crime committed by Sandusky is certainly a legal matter but the cover up was motivated by a desire to win. If that doesn't warrant penalties, I don't know what would.

 

[Al A Bama]

I think the University of Alabama needs to inform the NCAA that we just restored our own wins based on the JoePa decision fairness doctrine.

If they don't like it, they can kiss us where the sun doesn't shine on most days!

 

[81usaf92]

A lot of you act surprised. It was going to happen the moment the bowl ban was lifted. To be honest joe pa won those games, and I really don't understand why they took wins away when it wasn't a violation that gave psu an unfair advantage. I can understand taking scholarships away, making them pay to organizations that deal with the subject, and making a postseason ban; but not his wins. Plus it's not like vacated wins do really much of anything. People still considered him the winningest coach regardless of the vacated wins. And for people calling for our wins to be restored, it's not going to happen because USC will be right behind us because the NCAA views our situation as a competitive edge.

 

[cuda.1973]

And for people calling for our wins to be restored, it's not going to happen because USC will be right behind us because ours falls under a competitive edge category.

HUH???????????????????

How did we gain a competitive edge, in football, when students on the men's and women's track team gave textbooks to..........well, whoever they gave them to. Explain that one.

 

[alwayshavebeen]

A lot of you act surprised. It was going to happen the moment the bowl ban was lifted. To be honest joe pa won those games, and I really don't understand why they took wins away when it wasn't a violation that gave psu an unfair advantage. I can understand taking scholarships away, making them pay to organizations that deal with the subject, and making a postseason ban; but not his wins. Plus it's not like vacated wins do really much of anything. People still considered him the winningest coach regardless of the vacated wins. And for people calling for our wins to be restored, it's not going to happen because USC will be right behind us because ours falls under a competitive edge category.

With all due respect, your take that it did not create a competitive advantage is 100% flawed. Had the truth been told...had the people..all of them that knew what was going on..and that is more people that we can ever imagine...At Minimum everyone from the University President, Joe Paterno to the night janitor would have been charged with accessory to the cover up of child abuse and molestation.
In other words, he should have been arrested and never coached another game, and the entire football program would have went down the drain and there would have been no more wins...period.
But to me that isn't the real issue here. Wins and losses are the least important thing compared to these kid's lives being ruined. This was, and remains a cover up that should have shut Penn State University down. If anyone thinks that this wasn't common knowledge throughout the students, faculty, and administration is fooling themselves.
But lo and behold...Jay Paterno is making the rounds to find the truth and set the record right...IMHO a travesty and enough said by me.

 

[81usaf92]

HUH???????????????????

How did we gain a competitive edge, in football, when students on the men's and women's track team gave textbooks to..........well, whoever they gave them to. Explain that one.

The NCAA strongly fears the play for pay situation and they don't want that avenue open. Because if you notice mals main words were "the students are paying restitution and they didn't pocket any money". They couldn't prove that our athletes pocketed any money, but they wanted to send a message to anyone who was using this route and thus we get a bogus 21 games vacated for it.

 

[81usaf92]

With all due respect, your take that it did not create a competitive advantage is 100% flawed. Had the truth been told...had the people..all of them that knew what was going on..and that is more people that we can ever imagine...At Minimum everyone from the University President, Joe Paterno to the night janitor would have been charged with accessory to the cover up of child abuse and molestation.
In other words, he should have been arrested and never coached another game, and the entire football program would have went down the drain and there would have been no more wins...period.
But to me that isn't the real issue here. Wins and losses are the least important thing compared to these kid's lives being ruined. This was, and remains a cover up that should have shut Penn State University down. If anyone thinks that this wasn't common knowledge throughout the students, faculty, and administration is fooling themselves.
But lo and behold...Jay Paterno is making the rounds to find the truth and set the record right...IMHO a travesty and enough said by me.

What advantage did it give them on the field??? Don't think of me heartless because I truly think is horrid and there should be a lot more people than Sandusky. To be honest the guy that is getting away with a crime is mcquery. But no one says it like that, people label him a hero, but forget that he withheld that evidence for many years because he did not know what to do. Idk about you but I can't find a sensible reason to not immediately call the police or do it immediately after kicking sanduskys corpse and saving the kid.

As for joe pa, while he isn't clean in the incident, I really personally believe what does it matter if his wins are vacated or not. I still think vacated wins are the dumbest penalty because they are meaningless. So if you think it is a competitive advantage then let's petition they reissue the ban.

 

[alwayshavebeen]

What advantage did it give them on the field??? Don't think of me heartless because I truly think is horrid and there should be a lot more people than Sandusky. To be honest the guy that is getting away with a crime is mcquery. But no one says it like that, people label him a hero, but forget that he withheld that evidence for many years because he did not know what to do. Idk about you but I can't find a sensible reason to not immediately call the police or do it immediately after kicking sanduskys corpse and saving the kid.

As for joe pa, while he isn't clean in the incident, I really personally believe what does it matter if his wins are vacated or not. I still think vacated wins are the dumbest penalty because they are meaningless. So if you think it is a competitive advantage then let's petition they reissue the ban.

I don't think you are heartless at all. If there was no football program, then there could not have been any wins. And, once more, to think these were isolated crimes and only the people directly involved knew about it is terribly naïve.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

The most amusing thing is this thread is the cognitive dissonance it exposes among our own people. Some recognize the heinous nature of the crime (okay - to be fair probably EVERYONE realizes that so no rocks at me, ok?). But the sudden appeals to "hey, if they gave Paterno his wins back, give us ours back" make me wonder who exactly DOES take the heinousness seriously.

1) Neither Alabama nor USC nor Penn State should have had to "vacate" wins nor anyone else. It means nothing. The teams that lost those games still remember they lost them. Does anyone actually believe that USC vacating the win against OU erases the mockery of 55-19? (And speaking of cognitive dissonance, what about Auburn fans trying to claim THAT one after the fact?)

2) The competitive advantage argument for Penn State is third-stage reasoning. And some of you are getting it sort of wrong. "Well, if Paterno had come out and said they had this guy doing that...." Truth is that if he'd have done that at STAGE ONE then the damage to the brand would have been minimal.

This entire thing from day one has sounded sort of like, "We don't want this guy holding the wins record so let's come up with a way to remove it from him because it's embarrassing." They've made it a bigger problem than it already was. I think a better punishment would have been to shut down the school entirely. Keep the records, THAT would have resonated louder than anything because folks would have been saying, "Why isn't this Penn State school around anymore?"

Most of this is emotional laden appeals whether pro or con. You can say anybody who ever broke a rule pretty much had a competitive advantage. Consider Auburn's 1993 sanctions from the Eric Ramsey case. One of the observations the NCAA actually DID make was that Auburn "did not gain any competitive advantage." Uh, they were PAYING a player they KNEW they were paying! I've never understood how that could be true of Ramsey but the OPPOSITE is true for Antonio Langham (whose entire case came down to a napkin). But once we get to third-stage reasoning we can say anything was competitive advantage.

I don't dispute those saying football ran the show there - that much was obvious. But I just don't think this particular punishment had any merit in the first place. Of course, the Paterno family needs to go dry up and blow away, too.