QB Competition 2018

While I find it frustrating that Jalen Hurts is the new whipping boy, it is nice to see Blake Sims being spoken of so fondly. Some people bashed him for years, I got so tired of defending him, but he didn't deserve all the negativity.

Kraze, it's not an us or them situation. You were not the only one who thought Blake Sims, as unproven as he was, had an extraordinary year for us in 2014. You also are not the only one who sees how important Jalen is to our success.

But criticism comes with the quarterback's job. In a few cases with Jalen, it has crossed an unfortunate boundary. However, given our team's lagging offensive performance over the last two seasons against any viable competition, legitimate criticsm of all involved is absolutely warranted.
 
Last edited:
Yes. The young guys don’t block near as well as Stewart did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely agree. I think that's why we still run it some, but not nearly as much as we did. With Stewart out there clearing a path for another WR, we could get a lot more yardage. We didn't have an alpha-WR like that this year. even though several of the TF probably have more pure talent/speed/etc, Stewart played with a grudge.
 
IMO, Jalen's improvement in passing is underrated - though in desperate need of more, but his running ability is overrated. Some refer to him as a great runner. He has good top end speed, good vision and is strong as an ox. OTOH, he has no quickness and does not use his power very well, i.e., he usually goes down very easily if he does not have a head of steam. IMO, quickness is much more important in a QB than speed.
 
What I respected most about Sims was his willingness to do whatever he could to help the team. They moved him to RB and, I think, even to DB at one point. Then, when he got his chance to play QB he stepped up and did a good job. Not a lot of players are willing to do that today. 'Play me or trade me' seems to be the norm instead.
 
There's only one thing that can help Jalen be a better qb. He's got to improve as a passer. Not just percentages, qbr, accuracy, pre-snap reads, progressions...he's got to put it all together OR his running skills become a liability and an easy way to gameplan against us. I think that's where we are right now.
I agree with this, and I emphasize my complains date back to early in the season. I think you want him to be more of a pro style QB, you have to really force him to do that. You also, and I'm not sure how adept Daboll is at that part, need to be able to bring him along gradually. The problem was, all those games where they could have set time aside to really push Hurts development along, either he was still being asked to do the same hybrid offense, or he was pulled out of the game. So, part of what I've been getting at is I saw this coming. I warned about it, I said he needed to be forced to throw more and run less, I said I thought some of his development was being sacrificed.

The biggest thing though is that I don't think it's a lost cause. He can get better, but he needs more structure right now in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
IMO, Jalen's improvement in passing is underrated - though in desperate need of more, but his running ability is overrated. Some refer to him as a great runner. He has good top end speed, good vision and is strong as an ox. OTOH, he has no quickness and does not use his power very well, i.e., he usually goes down very easily if he does not have a head of steam. IMO, quickness is much more important in a QB than speed.

Ironically, it's while he's in the pocket he is most vunerable to this weakness. His lateral quickness, or lack thereof, is a problem and you are correct, he comes down easily when he's in the pocket. It's probably just another reason he abandons the pocket so quickly.

Blake Sims has been brought up recently. This was really of strength of his. He avoided alot of sacks with his footwork and lateral quickness. Not to beat a dead horse, but part of Tua's brilliance is his footwork and pocket awareness while keeping his eyes focused on the field.

You know who Jalen reminds me of the most? A great running back named Derek Henry who didn't have very good lateral quickness and needed about 2 steps to get going, but once he did, he was shifty and a beast to bring down.
 
IMO, Jalen's improvement in passing is underrated - though in desperate need of more, but his running ability is overrated. Some refer to him as a great runner. He has good top end speed, good vision and is strong as an ox. OTOH, he has no quickness and does not use his power very well, i.e., he usually goes down very easily if he does not have a head of steam. IMO, quickness is much more important in a QB than speed.
Yeah but you really don't want your QB trying to run over people like Bo Scarborough. Coker did it, but he was pretty big. I always look at it like Hurts is being smart by not fighting for that extra yard so he want get hurt.
 
Ironically, it's while he's in the pocket he is most vunerable to this weakness. His lateral quickness, or lack thereof, is a problem and you are correct, he comes down easily when he's in the pocket. It's probably just another reason he abandons the pocket so quickly.

Sims was hard to tackle in a phone booth, Hurts doesn't avoid tackles like that, but he can break them.
 
I agree with this, and I emphasize my complains date back to early in the season. I think you want him to be more of a pro style QB, you have to really force him to do that. You also, and I'm not sure how adapt Daboll is at that part, need to be able to bring him along gradually. The problem was, all those games where they could have set time aside to really push Hurts development along, either he was still being asked to do the same hybrid offense, or he was pulled out of the game. So, part of what I've been getting at is I saw this coming. I warned about it, I said he needed to be forced to throw more and run less, I said I thought some of his development was being sacrificed.

The biggest thing though is that I don't think it's a lost cause. He can get better, but he needs more structure right now in my opinion.

I do recall you saying that and in hindsight you were correct on how he needed to be developed.

But, those blowouts were used to help develop Tua.

Catch 22!
 
I may be crazy but I accept Saban at his word, he will play the guys who give us the best chance to win. Now with that said, he must see things in Jalen he does not see yet in the other QB's. Is Jalen the perfect QB? NO, but he must be doing more right than any other, or Nick would play the others. I still say Saban knows more about this team than any of us, we must let him do what he does best, COACH. I know the IB loss really sucks. But you have to admit we are 11-1, what would we be if someone else was the QB all year? I guess we will never know. I am sure Saban still feels Jalen is the best we have right now or he would have made a change. I feel in 2018 as in any year Saban will play the best guy he has.
 
I do recall you saying that and in hindsight you were correct on how he needed to be developed.

But, those blowouts were used to help develop Tua.

Catch 22!

I maybe reading too much into this but this is the first time I've ever seen Saban (at Alabama) insert the backup qb as quickly as he did this season in blowout games. That isn't a coincidence. My question is why the change in behavior? I think the obvious and safe answer would be he realized that in the past the backup didn't get enough snaps and he was one snap away from having a green quarterback as the starter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Or could it be the staff realizes what type talent they have in Tua and wanted to get him game experience to do a little evaluation for the future? I said it after the Vandy game, he has too much talent to keep on the bench for two more years. I thought they were going to have to clean Danielson up in the booth on the next commercial break because he was simply and genuinely amazed at Tua's ability. CNS is going to have to make some hard decisions in the off season, one starting with what type offense we're going to be and once he does that, then a quarterback decision.
 
I agree with this, and I emphasize my complains date back to early in the season. I think you want him to be more of a pro style QB, you have to really force him to do that. You also, and I'm not sure how adept Daboll is at that part, need to be able to bring him along gradually. The problem was, all those games where they could have set time aside to really push Hurts development along, either he was still being asked to do the same hybrid offense, or he was pulled out of the game. So, part of what I've been getting at is I saw this coming. I warned about it, I said he needed to be forced to throw more and run less, I said I thought some of his development was being sacrificed.

The biggest thing though is that I don't think it's a lost cause. He can get better, but he needs more structure right now in my opinion.

This isn't true either. Hurts stayed in a lot of games well past where they were won, usually for 2-4 additional series. Those were the series that we saw a lot of the things where we thought Jalen was progressing, i.e. intermediate routes, making the additional reads, slants, crosses, TE seam etc.
 
Yeah but you really don't want your QB trying to run over people like Bo Scarborough. Coker did it, but he was pretty big. I always look at it like Hurts is being smart by not fighting for that extra yard so he want get hurt.

I agree with not always trying to bowl over tacklers, but that was not what I was talking about. I was referring to his lack of quickness in the pocket and how easy he goes down when he is hit when he is just getting started.
 
I maybe reading too much into this but this is the first time I've ever seen Saban (at Alabama) insert the backup qb as quickly as he did this season in blowout games. That isn't a coincidence. My question is why the change in behavior? I think the obvious and safe answer would be he realized that in the past the backup didn't get enough snaps and he was one snap away from having a green quarterback as the starter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Or could it be the staff realizes what type talent they have in Tua and wanted to get him game experience to do a little evaluation for the future? I said it after the Vandy game, he has too much talent to keep on the bench for two more years. I thought they were going to have to clean Danielson up in the booth on the next commercial break because he was simply and genuinely amazed at Tua's ability. CNS is going to have to make some hard decisions in the off season, one starting with what type offense we're going to be and once he does that, then a quarterback decision.

I think the reason we saw so much of Tua is the lack of experience. If Tua was a redshirt junior he wouldn't have seen the field so much. I wouldn't read much more into it than that.
 
There was one prolonged argument prior to Sims senior season (that stretched over multiple threads) in which multiple people repeatedly insisted Blake Sims could not throw the long ball! On this forum, repeated, unchecked except by me. I'd come in and go look, I saw him throw the deep pass at A-Day, he can do it, he might not have the best range but he can get the ball out there. I'd get shot down, they'd go back to asserting he can't do it. It was frustrating because they simply wouldn't listen to the truth, they had their minds made up. I finally gave up and told them we'd have to see. Now here we are, and the last time I saw a conversation about Blake Sim's deep pass, it was that he was one of the best ever at it, at Alabama. So, as someone that spent years standing up for the guy's basic abilities, as literally one of his biggest defenders on this forum, I'm not the guy to underestimate his abilities.

Having said that. He was always obviously limited as a quarterback. My whole assertion was he could play QB, and could win at Alabama. It was never that he could do everything. I really had a tough time holding ground after his other A-Day travesties, in which he was absolutely abysmal. Even I started to doubt him somewhat, because he just looked so bad. But Saban explained it in pretty simple and relevant terms. He said that Blake was being asked to do different things at A-Day. And he looked really bad doing it. That's not a knock on Blake Sims, it's just his limitations. What Kiffin did was strip the playbook of things Blake Sims struggled at, simplified things, and left in things he could do. It worked, well, as your statements attest to (in contrast to the many negative things people had to say for so long). But to kind of retroactively upgrade him, isn't realistic. He was carefully utilized, he was not just put in the pocket and told to make reads. That wasn't how he was used.

Now, back to Hurts and what I said. I said Sims senior year he might have been a better passer than Hurts was last year. But, Sims was a better passer his senior year than the year before. People improve, and Hurts did as well. The thing you might be overlooking with this statement is this. I said Kiffin helped Blake deal with his weaknesses. He helped Hurts as well and I fully believe had Kiffin been just mentally present, that Hurts would have done better against Washington and Clemson, and Alabama would have won the title. The thing is Daboll is a pro guy and Kiffin is an NFL guy. He's helped Hurts develop, probably more than Kiffin would have. But he's not giving Hurts the easier stuff, he's not covering up Hurts weakness like Kiffin did last year when Hurts wasn't as good a passer, or like Kiffin did for Blake Sims. Daboll is asking Hurts to make more complex reads, he's allowing him to hold onto the ball longer, and you see the result. Hurts can manage against weaker defenses, but he's not yet up to doing as much against the best defenses (and a lot of college quarterbacks wouldn't be).

Absolutely. There's no justification for benching Hurts at this point in the season. You want a QB battle in the spring when you can handle the situation better. You don't blow up what's left of the season because of some issues. It's odd that you're so against just feeding Hurts some easier passes but swapping out starters? No big deal... which sounds more disruptive to you?

It doesn't matter how much you were cheerleading for Sims, the numbers, performances, and eye test spoke for themselves on what Sims was able to do. I don't expect a freshman Hurts to approach the performance of a senior Sims... but I do expect the sophomore version to be comparable and it's not (passing efficiency aside). In regards to Daboll, you seemingly imply that he's calling for a more complex read every single passing down and that's simply not true. While it's true he doesn't call as many as Kiffin did, there's several times a game that Jalen doesn't get the ball out properly - either on time or in stride. I used to play QB in high school and I can tell you that on quick read passing plays like slants/outs/etc., you have a limited time window before an opening closes. Jalen has a slow release and is often inaccurate on short throws - watch the warmup throws sometime and you'll see what I'm speaking about. You speak about the unknown regarding Tua, but how do you know Jalen is capable of the short, quick passing? Because of last year when much of that was jet sweeps and bubble screens - not slants, outs, etc.? Maybe... just maybe the reason we're not seeing those short passes being called very often is because Jalen can't consistently execute them.

Regarding Tua getting a shot, you're looking at things purely from a "2017 view". Saban has repeatedly said about his QB's while they were competing that a major factor is that the starter has to "win the team". What happens if he "loses the team"? If you'll look around right now at the offensive players, that seems to be happening. It's happening because RB's are getting less touches running the ball - Jalen's taking many of those touches away. It's happening because WR's aren't getting the ball in their hands an acceptable number of times per game. IF Jalen loses the confidence of the players around him and the coach stays with him, then it sends a major message to the players - and that's not an affect that only relates to 2017. So what's better?
 
It doesn't matter how much you were cheerleading for Sims, the numbers, performances, and eye test spoke for themselves on what Sims was able to do. I don't expect a freshman Hurts to approach the performance of a senior Sims... but I do expect the sophomore version to be comparable and it's not (passing efficiency aside). In regards to Daboll, you seemingly imply that he's calling for a more complex read every single passing down and that's simply not true. While it's true he doesn't call as many as Kiffin did, there's several times a game that Jalen doesn't get the ball out properly - either on time or in stride. I used to play QB in high school and I can tell you that on quick read passing plays like slants/outs/etc., you have a limited time window before an opening closes. Jalen has a slow release and is often inaccurate on short throws - watch the warmup throws sometime and you'll see what I'm speaking about. You speak about the unknown regarding Tua, but how do you know Jalen is capable of the short, quick passing? Because of last year when much of that was jet sweeps and bubble screens - not slants, outs, etc.? Maybe... just maybe the reason we're not seeing those short passes being called very often is because Jalen can't consistently execute them.

Regarding Tua getting a shot, you're looking at things purely from a "2017 view". Saban has repeatedly said about his QB's while they were competing that a major factor is that the starter has to "win the team". What happens if he "loses the team"? If you'll look around right now at the offensive players, that seems to be happening. It's happening because RB's are getting less touches running the ball - Jalen's taking many of those touches away. It's happening because WR's aren't getting the ball in their hands an acceptable number of times per game. IF Jalen loses the confidence of the players around him and the coach stays with him, then it sends a major message to the players - and that's not an affect that only relates to 2017. So what's better?

Very good post. You can look at the receivers and RB's body language and see something is not right.
 
I may be crazy but I accept Saban at his word, he will play the guys who give us the best chance to win. Now with that said, he must see things in Jalen he does not see yet in the other QB's. Is Jalen the perfect QB? NO, but he must be doing more right than any other, or Nick would play the others. I still say Saban knows more about this team than any of us, we must let him do what he does best, COACH. I know the IB loss really sucks. But you have to admit we are 11-1, what would we be if someone else was the QB all year? I guess we will never know. I am sure Saban still feels Jalen is the best we have right now or he would have made a change. I feel in 2018 as in any year Saban will play the best guy he has.

Here's the knock on Saban in this regard. Toward the end of fall camp, the players who the staff believe will contribute during the year are identified and start receiving the lion's share of the reps. Think of it sort of like the NFL process of preseason - eventually paring down the team to 45-50 players (only in our case, the guys are not released). However, along with this is a general practice that competition doesn't usually occur after that time - whoever won the job out of fall camp typically gets the benefit of the doubt. For years, we've heard from the upperclassmen about younger guys who weren't getting any playing time "tearing it up" during the practices. When's the last time one of them "broke out" and were moved on up the depth chart and possibly even started without an injury occurring (like with Dylan Moses)? This is the typical MO that we see - the staff may say that "the best player is always going to play", but that's not the way their program works throughout the entire season.
 
Very good post. You can look at the receivers and RB's body language and see something is not right.

It appears to me to be frustration. I've noticed it on and off throughout the year. I can't remember which game it was (maybe the aTm game) but I remember Bo carrying the ball two times in row for dang good yardage on both carries then being pulled. There was a sideline shot of what appeared (and I stress APPEARED) to be him getting highly upset. The camera shot didn't stay on him to see the entire context of it, it was just a two second shot then back to play the camera went. However, there's no doubt Damien Harris has been very frustrated because there's been a lot of sideline shots of him being taken out after ripping off some good runs and his body language left no doubt what he was upset about.
 
Advertisement

Trending content

Advertisement

Latest threads