QB Competition 2018

[TIDE-HSV]

I totally agree with running back thing. WE have to run the ball with the backs and establish the run from the get go. I got nothing against passing but so many things can go wrong, and everything has to go right for it to work. With our backs, give them the ball, all they need is a crease not a huge hole. Let them make the plays, they can do more on their own than a QB passing. If blocking is working on both styles, run then only relies on RB. In pass you still have more variables. Passer being accurate, WR getting open, and actually making the catch. How many drops have we had this year, not a ton but enough. Also passing opens up the illegal lineman down field etc. Like Bear said when asked why he mostly ran. He said in a pass 3 things can happen and 2 of them are not good. 1 a catch, good.....2 Incompletion, bad.....3 INT, bad. Things to ponder late at night while waiting for weeks to actually play again.

I really don't think we can defeat Clemson with a run-only offense, no matter who runs the ball. Likewise, I don't think anyone could defeat us with a run-only offense. In fact, I don't think any really good defensive team can be beaten with only the run...

 

[grlindsey08]

I’d use packages with both QBs in the game.....

Tua in pistol with Jalen behind him....

5-8 plays a game

I've never understood why we don't try this. A running back who can throw? That's could be dangerous and fun to watch.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I really don't think we can defeat Clemson with a run-only offense, no matter who runs the ball. Likewise, I don't think anyone could defeat us with a run-only offense. In fact, I don't think any really good defensive team can be beaten with only the run...

I agree completely. Just look at Les Miles LSU teams as evidence for that.

 

[Padreruf]

You sure it wasn't Woody Hayes?

That was the original source I first heard...ask Archie Griffin how that worked out for him???

Interesting that one "expert" had Damien Harris as the 4th best RB eligible for the draft -- and he doesn't even make 2nd team SEC because we would not give him the ball.

 

[RammerJammer14]

This is a tough discussion. I can see the points from both sides of the argument, and don't think either is 100% wrong or right. Yes, JH isn't performing at the level we had hoped he would. Yes, Tua had some good showings in backup duty against tired defenses that JH had already beaten. Yes, I would love to see what Tua could have done in some places where JH fell short.

And a poster above stated the obvious: all of us here want to see Bama win above anything else. The one thing I can't get past is the fact that there is likely NOBODY who wants us to win more than Coach Saban does. Not just in the game, but in every play that happens. So, that being the case, don't we all believe that the best coach of this generation, and perhaps all time, would be making exactly the changes many are advocating here if he thought he could be successful with them? JH not making the quick passes? Nick likely has tried it in practice and has a good reason we don't try those in game. Tua not playing despite the better arm? Nick sees everything the kid does, and if he were the better option, he would be playing. I guess one thing about Saban is that he is rather risk-averse, so he is always going to opt for protecting the ball rather than take risks with it. This is really nothing new for him at all. So, whether I get the results I want or not, regardless who is playing the position in question, I am always on the "In Nick I Trust" train.

While there is nothing wrong with being on the "In Nick I Trust" train, I think we need to be completely fair here and realize that sometimes the man needs outside help. As most of you will recall, back in 2014 it became glaringly obvious that our usually stalwart defense was extremely vulnerable to the gimmicks of the HUNH, spread RPO style offense run by the likes of Ole Miss, Auburn, and Oklahoma. Our defense lacked lateral quickness, we couldn't sub appropriately, guys got winded too quickly, etc etc. And naturally the board here was all over it. Multiple threads were started on what Saban needed to do to change the defense and why it was failing. Even Jess got involved with a few articles. And you know what? Saban listened. The very next season we simplified our defensive personnel packages, got leaner, faster defensive players, invented a new substitution strategy, etc. And we won a National Championship. What I am saying is, don't get all humble and just assume Nick's got this all on his own. We've helped him out with suggestions in the past, and we can help him out again with threads like these. We fans know what we are talking about. Roll Tide.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

While there is nothing wrong with being on the "In Nick I Trust" train, I think we need to be completely fair here and realize that sometimes the man needs outside help. As most of you will recall, back in 2014 it became glaringly obvious that our usually stalwart defense was extremely vulnerable to the gimmicks of the HUNH, spread RPO style offense run by the likes of Ole Miss, Auburn, and Oklahoma. Our defense lacked lateral quickness, we couldn't sub appropriately, guys got winded too quickly, etc etc. And naturally the board here was all over it. Multiple threads were started on what Saban needed to do to change the defense and why it was failing. Even Jess got involved with a few articles. And you know what? Saban listened. The very next season we simplified our defensive personnel packages, got leaner, faster defensive players, invented a new substitution strategy, etc. And we won a National Championship. What I am saying is, don't get all humble and just assume Nick's got this all on his own. We've helped him out with suggestions in the past, and we can help him out again with threads like these. We fans know what we are talking about. Roll Tide.

In the example you gave (which I think is a great example and agree with) the changes needed were known by Saban before the season ended. The problem was the changes couldn't be made until after the season. Granted, I don't think that is completely the case here. I think there are some changes that could be made currently. But there are changes that need to be made that simply cannot be made until after the season. I have no doubt Saban knows exactly what needs to be done. But as mentioned above, I'm also certain he realizes that some of those changes just simply will have to wait until the offseason. Let's just hope the ones he can and I trust will make, are good enough to get us to the promised land again. RTR!!!!

 

[TIDE-HSV]

In the example you gave (which I think is a great example and agree with) the changes needed were known by Saban before the season ended. The problem was the changes couldn't be made until after the season. Granted, I don't think that is completely the case here. I think there are some changes that could be made currently. But there are changes that need to be made that simply cannot be made until after the season. I have no doubt Saban knows exactly what needs to be done. But as mentioned above, I'm also certain he realizes that some of those changes just simply will have to wait until the offseason. Let's just hope the ones he can and I trust will make, are good enough to get us to the promised land again. RTR!!!!

I think that's correct. I think we have plays in the book which will work now, without any changes, only if they're correctly, patiently executed. I look for those to be used, no matter who's taking the snaps. On the longer haul, I believe Saban and the staff realize we're falling between two stools with our offense as it is. Modifying that to any great degree will have to wait for the offseason...

 

[CoolBreeze]

While there is nothing wrong with being on the "In Nick I Trust" train, I think we need to be completely fair here and realize that sometimes the man needs outside help. As most of you will recall, back in 2014 it became glaringly obvious that our usually stalwart defense was extremely vulnerable to the gimmicks of the HUNH, spread RPO style offense run by the likes of Ole Miss, Auburn, and Oklahoma. Our defense lacked lateral quickness, we couldn't sub appropriately, guys got winded too quickly, etc etc. And naturally the board here was all over it. Multiple threads were started on what Saban needed to do to change the defense and why it was failing. Even Jess got involved with a few articles. And you know what? Saban listened. The very next season we simplified our defensive personnel packages, got leaner, faster defensive players, invented a new substitution strategy, etc. And we won a National Championship. What I am saying is, don't get all humble and just assume Nick's got this all on his own. We've helped him out with suggestions in the past, and we can help him out again with threads like these. We fans know what we are talking about. Roll Tide.

With all due respect, do not assume for a second that our legendary head coach is listening to the fan base. I would argue that Saban was way ahead of all what you describe above before any of us armchair coaches even realized the problem. I love this place and having this conversation with you. But Nick got us here not any of us on message boards. Coach may get wind of what we are discussing in the peanut gallery through his cadre of aides but you better bet that he already has a beat, a plan and a method of implementing the plan to resolve whatever issues being discussed here way before our opinions started flying. So, consider me in the In Nick I Trust Train, as you call it, because he is the one who built us into what we are today based on his vision, not ours. So, prepare for another championship.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

With all due respect, do not assume for a second that our legendary head coach is listening to the fan base. I would argue that Saban was way ahead of all what you describe above before any of us armchair coaches even realized the problem. I love this place and having this conversation with you. But Nick got us here not any of us on message boards. Coach may get wind of what we are discussing in the peanut gallery through his cadre of aides but you better bet that he already has a beat, a plan and a method of implementing the plan to resolve whatever issues being discussed here way before our opinions started flying. So, consider me in the In Nick I Trust Train, as you call it, because he is the one who built us into what we are today based on his vision, not ours. So, prepare for another championship.

I believe it was all tongue in cheek...

 

[RammerJammer14]

With all due respect, do not assume for a second that our legendary head coach is listening to the fan base. I would argue that Saban was way ahead of all what you describe above before any of us armchair coaches even realized the problem. I love this place and having this conversation with you. But Nick got us here not any of us on message boards. Coach may get wind of what we are discussing in the peanut gallery through his cadre of aides but you better bet that he already has a beat, a plan and a method of implementing the plan to resolve whatever issues being discussed here way before our opinions started flying. So, consider me in the In Nick I Trust Train, as you call it, because he is the one who built us into what we are today based on his vision, not ours. So, prepare for another championship.

With all due respect, don't doubt the power of the fans, man. Its real. Its in the Geneva Convention.

 

[BAMARICH]

With all due respect, do not assume for a second that our legendary head coach is listening to the fan base. I would argue that Saban was way ahead of all what you describe above before any of us armchair coaches even realized the problem. I love this place and having this conversation with you. But Nick got us here not any of us on message boards. Coach may get wind of what we are discussing in the peanut gallery through his cadre of aides but you better bet that he already has a beat, a plan and a method of implementing the plan to resolve whatever issues being discussed here way before our opinions started flying. So, consider me in the In Nick I Trust Train, as you call it, because he is the one who built us into what we are today based on his vision, not ours. So, prepare for another championship.

I don't particularly think it's the fan base... but it's definitely an outside perspective. If you remember back a few years ago to 2014, Kiffin was brought in around this same time to give some observations about the offense prior to playing OSU. At other times, we've had guys come in to evaluate/suggest things. Thus, I think it's fair to say that Saban doesn't always figure things out solely by his own insight.

A second thing to consider is something that Earle touched on above. As easy as it seems from our perspective to "fix things" in the middle of a season, in reality it's not always that simple. Right now, for example, coaches have to deal with recruiting (which takes up a LOT of their time right now) and players are scattered more than usual. From planning to education to practice to implementation, it's a lengthy process... and that's even when you understand how/what needs to be changed.

 

[LA4Bama]

All true. Of course, the problem is that other teams have learned how to crowd the line and neutralize JH's feet. To get out of that trap, we have to change the play-calling and JH has to execute those plays. AU, for practical purposes, ignored the "P" part of the RPO, with the backup being that, if Ridley or someone else, got behind them, they'd just grab, give up the 15 if they got caught and try to hold us again. It worked. I've heard the rumors of both QBs playing, along with everyone else, and I do expect to see it, if JH can't/won't get rid of the ball quickly enough. It only makes sense, if the game develops the way the AU game did and Clemson defenses us similarly. (And I don't know why they wouldn't.)

You're right of course. Really it should be to our advantage that they have to commit a safety to stop the run, but unfortunately we haven't been able to exploit that often enough. I feel like with our receiving corps we should be able to get a man open against one deep safety on every play, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

I said above I would start Jalen 100%, but I have to admit I have lacked the same enthusiasm as some who were seeing a significant development in JH. I saw glimmers for sure. He definitely improved in keeping his eyes downfield on scrambles, passing downfield more than last year, and he has better chemistry with Ridley this year (last year it was Ardarius he leaned on a lot), but I never saw his deep accuracy improve that much and what I noticed he still didn't anticipate where and when a receiver would be open, so he'd have to wait to see him open, which is often too late. Those are things TT does well and instinctively, so yeah, I can totally see why the coaches would have him ready to go. However whether he can run the offense consistently under high pressure remains unknown, at least to me. The coaches see Tua every day, so if they believe Tua's the best choice then I'd certainly buy that. That would be a hell of a story if it worked, and a hell of an off-season if it doesn't.

(I'll just add that if Tua does win the job this post-season, we better recruit another QB fast because at that point somebody's not going to ride the pine next season. The 2018 QB competition could be settled by January 8th).

 

[BamaMoon]

You're right of course. Really it should be to our advantage that they have to commit a safety to stop the run, but unfortunately we haven't been able to exploit that often enough. I feel like with our receiving corps we should be able to get a man open against one deep safety on every play, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

I said above I would start Jalen 100%, but I have to admit I have lacked the same enthusiasm as some who were seeing a significant development in JH. I saw glimmers for sure. He definitely improved in keeping his eyes downfield on scrambles, passing downfield more than last year, and he has better chemistry with Ridley this year (last year it was Ardarius he leaned on a lot), but I never saw his deep accuracy improve that much and what I noticed he still didn't anticipate where and when a receiver would be open, so he'd have to wait to see him open, which is often too late. Those are things TT does well and instinctively, so yeah, I can totally see why the coaches would have him ready to go. However whether he can run the offense consistently under high pressure remains unknown, at least to me. The coaches see Tua every day, so if they believe Tua's the best choice then I'd certainly buy that. That would be a hell of a story if it worked, and a hell of an off-season if it doesn't.

(I'll just add that if Tua does win the job this post-season, we better recruit another QB fast because at that point somebody's not going to ride the pine next season. The 2018 QB competition could be settled by January 8th).

It's a complicated matter, to be sure. If Jalen were to get pulled because we got in a hole and Tua led us to a dramatic comeback during the playoff, I'm not sure how that would affect Jalen.

I don't think Tua not playing would affect Tua staying this year because I guarantee you he's planning to win the job in the spring or next fall camp.

If both play in the CFP, I hope both have success, we win it all, and then they can battle it out next year!

 

[drwho]

With all due respect, don't doubt the power of the fans, man. Its real.

Ask Greg Schiano.

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[Padreruf]

I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that we have several very competent if not excellent offensive coaches -- mentioned in another thread -- and we only put 14 on the board against AU. That says more to me than I really want to admit...

 

[RTR91]

I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that we have several very competent if not excellent offensive coaches -- mentioned in another thread -- and we only put 14 on the board against AU. That says more to me than I really want to admit...

To be fair, they averaged giving up 17.5 ppg in their other 12 games. We equal that number if don't botch that field goal. Still should have scored more, but it's not like we only scored 14 when they average giving up 31.

 

[Padreruf]

To be fair, they averaged giving up 17.5 ppg in their other 12 games. We equal that number if don't botch that field goal. Still should have scored more, but it's not like we only scored 14 when they average giving up 31.

I get that -- but with our offensive talent NO ONE should be able to hold us down like that. I recall CNS' words about another Bama team (2012) and our opponent -- "What we do is more important than what they do." In other words, we can win or we can beat ourselves.

It is my belief that this is true about this team...regardless of who we play IF we are all healthy.

 

[RTR91]

I get that -- but with our offensive talent NO ONE should be able to hold us down like that. I recall CNS' words about another Bama team (2012) and our opponent -- "What we do is more important than what they do." In other words, we can win or we can beat ourselves.

It is my belief that this is true about this team...regardless of who we play IF we are all healthy.

Saban has also said sometimes the other team is just good and makes plays.

That's my point here. It's not like we didn't put up stats against a horrible defense. They're a solid defense. We should have done more, but we didn't.

They played solid. We didn't. The bad performance was not solely due to their dominance nor our numerous blunders.


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[4Q Basket Case]

Saban has also said sometimes the other team is just good and makes plays.

That's my point here. It's not like we didn't put up stats against a horrible defense. They're a solid defense. We should have done more, but we didn't.

They played solid. We didn't. The bad performance was not solely due to their dominance nor our numerous blunders.


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There you go bringing logic and perspective into the discussion.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

I've never understood why we don't try this. A running back who can throw? That's could be dangerous and fun to watch.

You mean, try what Jalen’s detractors would say we have every play already???


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