QB Competition 2018

[rgw]

He's really only truly let us down one time. I am a person who sees his flaws and thinks he must improve or he will be in a competition* next Spring but dang we're a tough audience.


* competition is not the same thing as losing your job...a little healthy competition may serve him well.

 

[Cauthonluck151]

Couldn’t agree more! Against MSU we threw quick slants that were wide open and hurt them! We threw to the tight end multiple times. Against Auburn the quick slants were wide open because they were rushing 6 and 7 a lot! Dabol simply called a bad game. He tried to run Hurts in first down so often it was very predictable! He barely ran the toss sweep with Jacobs who destroyed MSU! As we saw in the UGA/AU game (SECCG) UGA ran toss sweeps that killed AU! Dabol simply out smarted himself!


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I agree 100% with the toss sweep to Jacobs. That would also apply to any runs outside of the tackles, we were gashing them on almost every outside run, even when AUBURN had players in position. I don't think it will work as well against Clemson, but if it does we need to keep running off tackle. Only run with Harris and Jacobs early (both have great vision, especially Harris). Bring Bo in late and only run to the outside so he can use the stiff arm late in the game when arm tackles are more prevelant.

As to Dabol, Sark, and Kiffin not calling more slants.. If you're QB has trouble reading defenses + a slow release and you call a quick slant... you have to pretty much be 100% their bringing the outside linebackers. There is such a small window to hit if they aren't blitzing, and even if they are it's a timing route that requires an accurate pass hitting the receiver in stride to be effective (quick+confident release). Jalen is indesicive reading the defense (something we all agree needs to be improved on) so he has to make his mind up presnap or is a 1 read and run. If they pick the slant it's going for 6 just about everytime. These coordinators + analyst see it everyday in practice, if Hurts could run those plays successfully they would call them.

Better to try for other plays. Also as others have said, recievers open across the middle all game and still not getting the ball... MSU brought heavy blitzes on both of those quick slants.

 

[BamaMoon]

He's really only truly let us down one time. I am a person who sees his flaws and thinks he must improve or he will be in a competition* next Spring but dang we're a tough audience.


* competition is not the same thing as losing your job...a little healthy competition may serve him well.

I think "competition" can't hurt, but in my opinion he needs to sharpen up significantly at a minimum.

I guess because UT hired Pruitt, but today I decided to go back and watch the UT game from earlier this year.

Most of our references to JH playing poorly were against the more elite teams on our schedule this year and last. But this year against UT JH was awful in the first half against UT. His throws were terribly erratic and he was late on most of his throws, even the ones he completed.

I was at the game and not seeing it on TV, I remember wondering why we were struggling so much in the first half, but JH played poorly and, as a result, the whole offense was just off.

Had it not been for some incredibly stupid UT penalties in the first half, which kept 2 our first half drives going, the 21-0 lead at the half would have likely been 7-0 -- AGAINST A TERRIBLE TEAM!

And the complaint that he just zones in on Ridley. Yeah, he did it badly during this game.



This against one of the weakest teams on the schedule this year.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

He's really only truly let us down one time. I am a person who sees his flaws and thinks he must improve or he will be in a competition* next Spring but dang we're a tough audience.


* competition is not the same thing as losing your job...a little healthy competition may serve him well.

I've been thinking maybe Jalen feels the competition already and it might be actually hurting his play. As the season went along he's had the chance to see some of the throws that Tua made in mop-up duty. I've read that Tua is also getting a lot of reps with the starters in practice which if true is something Jalen notices also. I wonder if all this has made Jalen start to feel somewhat insure about his starting role. He only has 1 INT this season and seems fearful of making throws. Could his hesitation on passes be because he feels that he may be only a couple of INT's away from being pulled?
It's just a theory, I could be wrong.

 

[LA4Bama]

I think "competition" can't hurt, but in my opinion he needs to sharpen up significantly at a minimum.

I guess because UT hired Pruitt, but today I decided to go back and watch the UT game from earlier this year.

Most of our references to JH playing poorly were against the more elite teams on our schedule this year and last. But this year against UT JH was awful in the first half against UT. His throws were terribly erratic and he was late on most of his throws, even the ones he completed.

I was at the game and not seeing it on TV, I remember wondering why we were struggling so much in the first half, but JH played poorly and, as a result, the whole offense was just off.

Had it not been for some incredibly stupid UT penalties in the first half, which kept 2 our first half drives going, the 21-0 lead at the half would have likely been 7-0 -- AGAINST A TERRIBLE TEAM!

And the complaint that he just zones in on Ridley. Yeah, he did it badly during this game.



This against one of the weakest teams on the schedule this year.

I remember this as well. My brother texted me at halftime saying it was the worst half of football JH had played, period. But the offense then came out for the second half and had a really nice drive, before giving way to Tua, so there was this ambiguous moment when I wondered if the first half was truly representative or whether JH had figured it out.

It was also after this game that Greg McElroy made his much reviled comment about not seeing significant improvement in JH's passing game.

 

[81usaf92]

Against my better judgement I went back and watched that game again last night. After watching it again, I am not so sure that Daboll called a bad game. Now, at some point he should have adjusted to Jalen's play in the game, and he didn't, so that is on him. But I saw receivers open over the middle on virtually every play where Jalen took off running too soon.

So, IMO, that was on Jalen, not Daboll. But at some point Daboll should have seen what was happening with Jalen and made a call - change QBs or change play calls. So why did they leave Jalen in the game and why keep calling the same plays? Turns out that Alabama was still in the game late in the 4th. Even with all of the bad play, you moved the ball. But here is where the game was lost:

Botched FG attempt at the very end of the 3rd qtr (Auburn fed off of that momentum swing and scored their last TD)
Foster running a 3 yard route on 4th and 4 at the Auburn 30 yard line with 9 minutes to go in the 4th qtr

Because of those 2 plays, Jalen tried to do way too much with not enough time on the clock on your last drive. JMO, but if those 2 plays above had gone differently, Alabama wins that game - and neither of those botched plays were on Jalen.

It really came down to just those 2 plays, with Auburn playing their best defensive and offensive game of the year, on a day in which they would have beat anyone (including every playoff team).

So, sure, Jalen needs to improve. And so does Daboll. But as long as Alabama plays just a tiny bit better than they did against Auburn, you are going to win #17.

Daboll's problem in that game was a hybrid of Nuss 2013 Auburn game and Kiffin 2014 tOSU game. He made the cardinal sins of running straight into a loaded box and passing with a qb that zeros in on one receiver. The outside running was there all day and we refused to commit to it. Sure Jalen didn't play great, but why did we put him in position to be a game breaker in the first place?

 

[BamaMoon]

I remember this as well. My brother texted me at halftime saying it was the worst half of football JH had played, period. But the offense then came out for the second half and had a really nice drive, before giving way to Tua, so there was this ambiguous moment when I wondered if the first half was truly representative or whether JH had figured it out.

It was also after this game that Greg McElroy made his much reviled comment about not seeing significant improvement in JH's passing game.

Exactly...Tua in the second half of this game is just incredible (except the 95 yard pic six).

It's just amazing how much smoother the offense looks in this game when he's under center. Literally, a tale of two halfs in passing efficiency, crispness and beauty. Really, the whole offense in this game just looked more efficient with Tua in the game.

 

[drwho]

Or he could totally kill it and make everyone feel bad for doubting him.

Given his play, there's no shame in doubting him.

 

[drwho]

It's just amazing how much smoother the offense looks in this game when he's under center. Literally, a tale of two halfs in passing efficiency, crispness and beauty. Really, the whole offense in this game just looked more efficient with Tua in the game.

He's just a better QB.

 

[teamplayer]

He's just a better QB.

Based upon what exactly? The eye test? The highest paid, most respected coach in the college game today keeps running Jalen Hurts out as the starter. So, I guess Saban is now an idiot? I also think TT has looked very sharp at times, but I just wonder what it is that all of you who keep beating the Tua drum think Saban's motivation is for playing Hurts. It is one thing to have a debate about the clear strengths and weaknesses that Jalen has and wondering if Tua could do better, but I just don't get where some of you say things like, "He's just a better QB." How do you know? Honestly, it seems like Coach Saban would be more motivated to play Tua for recruiting purposes since I'm sure we would also like Tua's brother to sign with us, so why oh why would these well paid, respected coaches keep intentionally hurting our chances to win by playing Hurts? I wonder. I also wonder how long this thread will be by next fall. Hahaha!

 

[drwho]

The eye test is one, and, more specifically for me, hitting receivers in stride consistently. More often than not, WRs have to slow down, or stop (as Ridley did on the long pass against Mercer) to catch a ball thrown by Jalen. Tua is on target on a higher percentage of throws.

I know Saban keeps running Jalen out as the starter. Once he picks a starter, he doesn't waffle. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

[B1GTide]

Based upon what exactly? The eye test? The highest paid, most respected coach in the college game today keeps running Jalen Hurts out as the starter. So, I guess Saban is now an idiot?

Saban was willing to make changes while at LSU, but never had to consider it this late in the season. Personally, I think that he should take his cue from the locker room. The players have to support whatever decision he makes, because so much success on the offensive side of the ball relies upon confidence.

In 2014 we faced 2 major QB injuries, and the offense got behind each new QB, but that was out of necessity. But when we went to Cardale Jones, we changed our offense and became a very run heavy team. IMO, if you stick with Jalen, this is what you have to do to win.

 

[teamplayer]

The eye test is one, and, more specifically for me, hitting receivers in stride consistently. More often than not, WRs have to slow down, or stop (as Ridley did on the long pass against Mercer) to catch a ball thrown by Jalen. Tua is on target on a higher percentage of throws.

I know Saban keeps running Jalen out as the starter. Once he picks a starter, he doesn't waffle. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

No, I'm not saying you have to agree with it. We all have our opinions, and there is a part of me that also thinks Tua will be starting next year. However, I'm not willing to state that Tua is better like it is a fact. I've only seen Tua play with a big lead against inferior competition; therefore, I have to assume that the coaches are playing the guy who gives us the best chance to win.

Saban was willing to make changes while at LSU, but never had to consider it this late in the season. Personally, I think that he should take his cue from the locker room. The players have to support whatever decision he makes, because so much success on the offensive side of the ball relies upon confidence.

In 2014 we faced 2 major QB injuries, and the offense got behind each new QB, but that was out of necessity. But when we went to Cardale Jones, we changed our offense and became a very run heavy team. IMO, if you stick with Jalen, this is what you have to do to win.

I agree that we should let Jalen do what he does best and run the ball; of course, I am always a proponent of running the ball down other teams' throats. I don't think Hurts will ever be a great drop back passer, but he does seem like the type of competitor who likes to prove people wrong. Even with our great talent, we need an effective passing game to balance the offense and keep defenses off balance. If our passing game keeps defenses honest and hits them with some big plays, our running game should be able to control the line and punish people to the point of making their rear end quit. I like watching football when it is still about toughness. I think that was the hardest part about watching the AU loss; they seemed to be the more physical, tougher team.

 

[BamaMoon]

Based upon what exactly? The eye test? The highest paid, most respected coach in the college game today keeps running Jalen Hurts out as the starter. So, I guess Saban is now an idiot? I also think TT has looked very sharp at times, but I just wonder what it is that all of you who keep beating the Tua drum think Saban's motivation is for playing Hurts. It is one thing to have a debate about the clear strengths and weaknesses that Jalen has and wondering if Tua could do better, but I just don't get where some of you say things like, "He's just a better QB." How do you know? Honestly, it seems like Coach Saban would be more motivated to play Tua for recruiting purposes since I'm sure we would also like Tua's brother to sign with us, so why oh why would these well paid, respected coaches keep intentionally hurting our chances to win by playing Hurts? I wonder. I also wonder how long this thread will be by next fall. Hahaha!

The "eye test" shows the most when Tua drops back to pass the ball. It's no contest when comparing Jalen and Tua's throwing ability. No contest.

As for CNS's decision staying with Jalen up to this point. I think the reason he keeps running Jalen out there first has something to do with a few things:

1. CNS trust Jalen with the ball more right now (up to last game) than he does with the greater risk of turnoevers with Tua.

2. CNS values Jalen's legs more than he's willing to sacrifice Tua's lesser abilities in the running game. (I personally think Tua's running abilities are equal to Jalen's considering his better passing skills except for when he might have to take on a middle linebacker or safety head on).

3. CNS trust Jalen's game experience more than Tua's right now.

This is just my guess and I also believe if this is close to being correct, these points are subject to change and/or reevaluation...maybe even in the post season, but especially in the spring. JMO.

 

[B1GTide]

I agree that we should let Jalen do what he does best and run the ball; of course, I am always a proponent of running the ball down other teams' throats. I don't think Hurts will ever be a great drop back passer, but he does seem like the type of competitor who likes to prove people wrong. Even with our great talent, we need an effective passing game to balance the offense and keep defenses off balance. If our passing game keeps defenses honest and hits them with some big plays, our running game should be able to control the line and punish people to the point of making their rear end quit. I like watching football when it is still about toughness. I think that was the hardest part about watching the AU loss; they seemed to be the more physical, tougher team.

By run heavy, I do not mean Jalen running the ball. You are not going to beat Clemson if Jalen runs the ball 15 times. If Jalen is your guy, you need to get back to the stuff that you ran last year - lots of sweeps and edge rushes to spread out the defense from sideline to sideline. If you try to beat Clemson between the tackles, you might not score - ever.

 

[Con]

No, I'm not saying you have to agree with it. We all have our opinions, and there is a part of me that also thinks Tua will be starting next year. However, I'm not willing to state that Tua is better like it is a fact. I've only seen Tua play with a big lead against inferior competition; therefore, I have to assume that the coaches are playing the guy who gives us the best chance to win.


I agree that we should let Jalen do what he does best and run the ball; of course, I am always a proponent of running the ball down other teams' throats. I don't think Hurts will ever be a great drop back passer, but he does seem like the type of competitor who likes to prove people wrong. Even with our great talent, we need an effective passing game to balance the offense and keep defenses off balance. If our passing game keeps defenses honest and hits them with some big plays, our running game should be able to control the line and punish people to the point of making their rear end quit. I like watching football when it is still about toughness. I think that was the hardest part about watching the AU loss; they seemed to be the more physical, tougher team.

I agree. I just don’t think coach Saban wanted to start another true freshman again this year. He wanted to get him experience and grow some. He has had a lot of playing time this year compared to backups in years past though.


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[drwho]

He has had a lot of playing time this year compared to backups in years past though.

This is what gives me some hope that we may see him against Clemson.

 

[teamplayer]

By run heavy, I do not mean Jalen running the ball. You are not going to beat Clemson if Jalen runs the ball 15 times. If Jalen is your guy, you need to get back to the stuff that you ran last year - lots of sweeps and edge rushes to spread out the defense from sideline to sideline. If you try to beat Clemson between the tackles, you might not score - ever.

I agree. I did not mean to imply that Jalen should lead the team in rushing attempts, only that he is more of a running threat than a passing one and should be used that way instead of trying to turn him into a pocket passer. We need to keep defenses off balance. If we become predictable, we become much easier to stop, which goes without saying even though I'm stating the obvious.

 

[drwho]

If he plays the entire game, Jalen should have no more than 2 designed runs per half.

 

[teamplayer]

The "eye test" shows the most when Tua drops back to pass the ball. It's no contest when comparing Jalen and Tua's throwing ability. No contest.

As for CNS's decision staying with Jalen up to this point. I think the reason he keeps running Jalen out there first has something to do with a few things:

1. CNS trust Jalen with the ball more right now (up to last game) than he does with the greater risk of turnoevers with Tua.

2. CNS values Jalen's legs more than he's willing to sacrifice Tua's lesser abilities in the running game. (I personally think Tua's running abilities are equal to Jalen's considering his better passing skills except for when he might have to take on a middle linebacker or safety head on).

3. CNS trust Jalen's game experience more than Tua's right now.

This is just my guess and I also believe if this is close to being correct, these points are subject to change and/or reevaluation...maybe even in the post season, but especially in the spring. JMO.

These points are all valid, and they also indicate that there is more to being a QB than just throwing a ball through a tire (old school reference). I would bet on Tua being able to throw more accurate passes than Jalen any day of the week based only on what I have seen of them playing in games. However, protecting the ball and leadership are both huge factors. Tua may also have both of those abilities, too. My only point is that the coaches know more than any of the people who seem absolutely certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that Tua should be playing over Jalen. I'm just left wondering why those people think they know more than Coach Saban. I guess we have more candidates than we were aware of to replace Coach Saban when he decides to retire. Personally, I hope he stays quite a while longer. I enjoy a good debate, but I have discovered through the years that people who state their opinions as fact often like to argue instead of actually discussing and listening.