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Reaction To Loss Is Interesting

Bama323 said:
I'm not painting anything, I'm giving you pure facts. We are down depth wise on the OL because of the effects of reduced scholarships and probation several years ago. Because we don't have as many players in the system as we should, we have less talent to draw from. I could understand it might be a coaching issue if we had not won our first 9 games this season, but the fact that we did win those games proves to me it's not about the coaching, its about the players and losing what little depth we have to injury. Ask yourself again after the 2008 season if depth and talent do not make any difference.
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Joe Kines seems to not be having much trouble with the talent level on his side of the ball. The talent level and depth is no excuse for poor technique, footwork, agility, etc. on this OL. You are missing my point completely. I don't care if player X came out of HS as a blue chip, dill chip, or potato chip, the technique should be better. Something is not right and you know it, replace the elephant scented glade plugins in your house and take a closer look. Talent helps, I'll grant you that, but these guys are playing major college football at a D3 freshman level technique and skillwise. The footwork and agility is not being developed, why is that? Are we just gonna wait until we get more talented players and then show them how to do it. Let's hope we don't wait until 2008....
 
I wonder if

it's not an "either/or" issue, but maybe it's an "and" issue. The debate on this thread is it is "either a coaching or talent" problem. But maybe it's both: coaching and talent.
 
talisitider said:
Joe Kines seems to not be having much trouble with the talent level on his side of the ball. The talent level and depth is no excuse for poor technique, footwork, agility, etc. on this OL. You are missing my point completely. I don't care if player X came out of HS as a blue chip, dill chip, or potato chip, the technique should be better. Something is not right and you know it, replace the elephant scented glade plugins in your house and take a closer look. Talent helps, I'll grant you that, but these guys are playing major college football at a D3 freshman level technique and skillwise. The footwork and agility is not being developed, why is that? Are we just gonna wait until we get more talented players and then show them how to do it. Let's hope we don't wait until 2008....
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Obviously, we are not going to agree on this situation, but the fact is that we had alot more talent and depth on the defensive side of the ball this year than on the offensive side. A few years ago, when we did have some depth issues on defense, everybody wanted Joe Kines fired because his style of defense and his coaching ability were not up to SEC standards. Now, everybody thinks he is one of the best defensive coordinators in the country. Amazing how having a veteran squad and adding some depth will improve things, huh? The same thing will happen with the offense in the next few years. We will bring in recruits who are able to consistently perform on the OL the techniques that you are talking about. The reason I was saying wait till after 2008 is because that is when we will have a bunch of seniors and juniors starting on the offensive line that have been together for a while, just like Auburn and LSU had this year. In the next couple of years, we will continue to get better, but it's not going to happen overnight. Obviously, there is no excuse for how badly we started out against Auburn, I agree with that. But to all of a sudden say our coaches aren't doing their jobs and all that is extreme. Michael Vick could have been playing QB last week and we still would not have been able to move the ball. We were just clearly outmanned and that is simply because we don't have the players on the OL right now to get it done against the top competition.
 
Bama323 said:
Coach Bryant was given time to turn things around and change things. Coach Shula is currently in his third year and he just finished the regular season 9-2. I'd say he is beginning to do something right. Also, coach Bryant did not have to rebuild a team that was just coming off of probation and under heavy scholarship reductions.

Sure, you can put someone in who may not be as talented, especially if they want to contribute, but who do you put in when there is no one left? That is exactly my point, we don't have anyone left.
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Thanks for making my point. In 1958 when Coach Bryant came back he inherited a team that had only won 4 games in 3 years under Whitworth. The returning players had no discipline or any good habits, he ran off alot of good players form those teams of Whitworth. In 4 years Coach Bryant won a NC, are you saying that Bama will win one next year?
What I said was, you can't compare this team to Coach Bryant's, it's like apples and oranges.Players are different, coach's are different, it's a completely different world.
That's all I have to say about this subject.
 
On the AU center...

he may have been a senior; I don't know. I do know it was the first game he started, so the argument that he was accustomed to playing with the other OL doesn't hold water. And, on the "we're young" argument, then we should have been getting better with each game, as we gained experience...
 
BamaFan in Germantown said:
Thanks for making my point. In 1958 when Coach Bryant came back he inherited a team that had only won 4 games in 3 years under Whitworth. The returning players had no discipline or any good habits, he ran off alot of good players form those teams of Whitworth. In 4 years Coach Bryant won a NC, are you saying that Bama will win one next year?
What I said was, you can't compare this team to Coach Bryant's, it's like apples and oranges.Players are different, coach's are different, it's a completely different world.
That's all I have to say about this subject.
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Your right about comparing teams to Coach Bryant's. It is apples and oranges. Back then, you didn't have an 85 man scholarship limitation like you do now. Also, coach Bryant didn't inherit a team that was still under probation like Mike Shula did. When Shula took over, his first recruiting class was limited in numbers because he could only recruit up the the number the NCAA allowed. Last year was the first recruiting class he brought in that was not limited. They are all freshmen and many of them were redshirted. The seniors, juniors, and sophomores all came in under reduction.

However, my comparison to Coach Bryant was not about that, I was simply making the statement that just because a coach loses a game or has a bad season or two, it does not make him a bad coach. My point was that it is not always about coaching, because if it was, coach Bryant would have never lost a game. Coach Bryant did have a few bad seasons in his time and a few average seasons. These seasons were usually the result of circumstances beyond his control, like his first year at Texas A&M or his first year at Bama. He also went 6-5 in 1969 and 1970 I believe.

Mike Shula's first two years are not indicative of his coaching ability because of the situation with probation and all the coaching changes. We have improved from 4-9, to 6-6, and now to 9-2. All of that improvement while at the same time being limited by scholarship reductions. Hopefully you can spot the trend there. Who knows, maybe coach Shula can win us a national championship game next year, but if I had to bet, I'd say we probably have another couple of years of rebuilding to do so that we will have the talent and depth to beat teams like USC and Texas. You never know that, he suprised me this year by starting off 9-0, maybe they will suprise us next year by doing even better. Remind me again why I am having to defend Coach Shula?
 
TIDE-HSV said:
...And, on the "we're young" argument, then we should have been getting better with each game, as we gained experience...
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Exactly.... If anybody says that we got better then they are kidding themselves. Senior, junior, softmore, freshman, whatever you'd expect to see improvement. Bama323 just the facts....
 
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