Reaction To Loss Is Interesting

[TIDE-HSV]

One thing overlooked...

in this thread is that AU was starting a first-timer at center. He was their third string and he was replacing their second string center, who was also a walkon. Things that make you go "hmmm."

 

[banditbob]

good thoughts about this year.

 

[bat123]

in this thread is that AU was starting a first-timer at center. He was their third string and he was replacing their second string center, who was also a walkon. Things that make you go "hmmm."

Could depth have anything to do with it? :biggrin2:

 

[alatider]

As for me, I'm glad that we are 9-2. It could have been worse.

Add to that, our OL will have more experience (and hopefully some new recruits) next year and our QB is impressive.

 

[crimsonbleeder]

I just can't see how people let 1 bad half of football, when I say bad I'm being nice, be the most memorable moment of a 9-2 season. Those of you who say it was the worse display of football they've ever seen have a very short memory. You only have to go back to the 03 season and the UGA game or last years USC game. Those games were just as ugly as the Auburn game. The only reason those people let this game eat at them so much is because it was AUBURN.

Anyone remember the Louisville game in 1990 or 1991? Wasn't that a 37-0 loss? THAT was a TRUE butt-whipping! Although disappointed with the loss to Auburn, and I think we are ALL more disappointed with the performance of the OL than the loss, we DO have a short memory... What happened after that game with a certain Coach? Hmm...

 

[bayoutider]

Could depth have anything to do with it? :biggrin2:

Certainly, among other things.

 

[BamaSkins]

...if all our problems are can be summed up in our OL and OL coaching and our youth and our inexperience then after what point in time do these things get corrected
...how many games does one have to coach to be better or
...is three years enough, is five, is seven, is ten or
...how many games does one have to play in the OL to get better or
...how many games does one have to play to no longer be inexperienced
...will we be suddenly better for the bowl game or better next year?
...or the year after that? or the year after that?
...how about when the OL are seniors will they be suddenly better?
...when/where does all the excuse making end


" Next year, next year, next year ...
has that replaced Roll Tide as our banner and cheer?...
Will we moan and groan and drown in our beer...
or make necessary changes, next year?

Is next year the year I see my Tide of old...
the one that rained fear among our foes...
or will I continue to see and to hear...
our fans cry proudly, wait til next year! "

 

[squib]

It amazes me how little most people really know about football. All the talk about schemes and play calling etc.

I have an idea.....

take Auburn and Lsu and put their freshmen and softmores on the offensive line and let's play. What do you think would happen. Our defense would overwhelm them. I hope you get the point. Relax and be patient!

If Auburn and LSU had freshmen and softmore (sic) on the offensive line, I would expect they would have improved over the course of the season.

After 15 weeks of practice and 11 games, I have yet to see how a single one of our linemen improved over the season. Name one that is playing better now than he was in September? Because I don't buy that players get better just because they get older, the coaching on the OL is starting to worry me. If the O Line didn't improve over the course of the season with weekly tests against real teams, why do some of you assume they will get better between now and next September with just about 10 weeks of practice time ahead of them?

The "they are young and will get better argument" only works if you believe they will get quality coaching before next year. With no improvement this year, what is your proof that the quality coaching will occur in the offseason?

 

[ua9899]

Next year is the battle cry of every team that loses to their rival. Then when you win the other team cries next year. We said wait until next year to beat UThug and next year happened. We said wait until next year to beat South Carolina and next year happened. The only time you can't truly say wait until next year is if you go undefeated. Then all your opponents are saying wait until next year. We had a great season. People are acting as if we are 2-9 not 9-2. Yes we stumbled across the finish line, but last year our finish line was about 4 games back. To be honest, we still haven't crossed our finish line. Not until we play our bowl game is our season complete.

 

[ForeverBama]

Yodaism

Not until we play our bowl game is our season complete.

A truthful statement have you made.

:wink:

 

[talisitider]

Why is it rare to see any freshmen or softmores on the offensive line.
Auburn dosn't, Lsu dosn't, Tennessee didn't.

You don't know what you are talking about, but you have a right to!

Ok, I don't know what I'm talking about, but you do? Youth is not it my Dog, there has been no improvement throughout. I will admit that I gave BC credit early in the season, I thought we had as they say turned the corner, but as the competition got stiffer we were exposed in this area. I jumped the gun. Youth is not it Dog, consistent improvement is not there, footwork and agility is not there. Blame it on lack of talent, blame it on what you want and make your excuse, but the bottom line is they are not getting it done.

Earle, I apologize for the posts that I made earlier in the season giving BC credit and the OL. The winning blinded me, I turned my back on the obvious weakness that was just waiting to be exposed. Jess and Earle, you guys were exactly right. And Earle, great point about the AU center, I argued that on another thread and one poster said that he was a blue chipper. Times are tough when blue chippers are walking on at Auburn.....

 

[talisitider]

The problem is more about depth than about youth. We don't have the depth right now that we will have in the next couple of years, or the depth that we had in the past due to NCAA probation. Think about it, we were only two players deep at center. In week 1, we had them both healthy, by week 10, our first stringer had a broke leg. Behind JB Closner, we had a senior who had never hardly played a snap before in D1. Why do you think he never played? He didn't play because he wasn't talented enough to start in the SEC!! Some of you people are so thick skulled you don't even try to look or sound like you have a lick of sense. Some of yall think Coach Shula should be able to win even if we had a team of midgets running around on the field. Sometimes, it comes down to more than coaching. If the best coach always won, I guess Bear Bryant never would have lost a game. What's your excuse for Bear Bryant only winning 1 game the first year he was at Texas A&M? What about the first year he came to Bama. Do you think he was a bad coach since he went only 6-4? Coach Bryant only went 6-5 in 1969 and 1970, was he a bad coach? We need to give Mike Shula time to build this program back to where it used to be. Where it used to be is where we were when we had the talent and depth at every position so that when a player goes down because of an injury, there is someone there who can take his place without the team losing a step. Then we need someone behind that player so that when our second stringer goes down, there is someone there to take over and there not be much of a drop off. Folks, we have about 2 years before we will be back in that situation, and the only way we will get there is by recruiting and we only get to sign one class per year. Unless you want to be back on probation real quick, you Shula bashers need to shut up and give him a darn chance!! Period.

Watch the games. Depth? Ok, we've had pretty much the same guys out there all season. Have they shown consistent improvement since about week 5? Depth does not excuse poor footwork and technique. How deep do you need to be to show these skills? When you see guys flatfooted and reaching and not even able to get their hands on the defender, there's a problem. They have been so slow at times that they can't get a penalty and hold them.... Lookout blocks should not be an option.

How many true freshmen are out there? Have they got a year under their belt of practice or did they just start practicing about week 9 or so of this year? What is the excuse at the RT position?

Center, yes he walked on could not break the 2 deep at UAB. It starts with the center , blocking assignments, where is the safety, how are they lining up. Has he not been getting a scouting report and watching video? Has he been practicing at all? Does second string mean that you need to be just as prepared as first string? Of course. Is it gonna be harder for him to come and fill the shoes of JB and lead these guys? Why yes of course it is. Consistency is a good thing. It's even tougher when you come in with not much PT and try to lead younger guys. But these guys have been playing all year, they're not young anymore.

Yes, I played OL in high school and yes I could have played college football in either the Ivy League or Big 12. The OL is tough and tough to learn schemes, but the improvement is not there, the footwork and agility is not there. Week 11 and confusion is there because of their alignments. That's bad preparation by somebody. If you're that far along and have not seen all possible scenarios then somebody is not during their job, I don't care how young you are. But the kicker is that even when you do know who to block, you fail because your feet are stuck in the mud. Being that slow is just not right.

 

[BamaFan in Germantown]

The problem is more about depth than about youth. We don't have the depth right now that we will have in the next couple of years, or the depth that we had in the past due to NCAA probation. Think about it, we were only two players deep at center. In week 1, we had them both healthy, by week 10, our first stringer had a broke leg. Behind JB Closner, we had a senior who had never hardly played a snap before in D1. Why do you think he never played? He didn't play because he wasn't talented enough to start in the SEC!! Some of you people are so thick skulled you don't even try to look or sound like you have a lick of sense. Some of yall think Coach Shula should be able to win even if we had a team of midgets running around on the field. Sometimes, it comes down to more than coaching. If the best coach always won, I guess Bear Bryant never would have lost a game. What's your excuse for Bear Bryant only winning 1 game the first year he was at Texas A&M? What about the first year he came to Bama. Do you think he was a bad coach since he went only 6-4? Coach Bryant only went 6-5 in 1969 and 1970, was he a bad coach? We need to give Mike Shula time to build this program back to where it used to be. Where it used to be is where we were when we had the talent and depth at every position so that when a player goes down because of an injury, there is someone there who can take his place without the team losing a step. Then we need someone behind that player so that when our second stringer goes down, there is someone there to take over and there not be much of a drop off. Folks, we have about 2 years before we will be back in that situation, and the only way we will get there is by recruiting and we only get to sign one class per year. Unless you want to be back on probation real quick, you Shula bashers need to shut up and give him a darn chance!! Period.

Please don't compare this team to Coach Bryant's, he had the insight to change when things weren't working. I do not see that approach from this staff, except on the defensive side. Some one mentioned that you can't coach youth, but you can, it's called experience.If someone misses an assignment, get them out and put someone in who may not be as talented, but they want to contribute and maybe they can help.You can't coach heart, but you can coach experience or at least give a kid a chance to gain it.Something this OL coach has yet to do. Coaching and being successful at Wash State is not the same as the SEC

 

[Bama323]

Watch the games. Depth? Ok, we've had pretty much the same guys out there all season. Have they shown consistent improvement since about week 5? Depth does not excuse poor footwork and technique. How deep do you need to be to show these skills? When you see guys flatfooted and reaching and not even able to get their hands on the defender, there's a problem. They have been so slow at times that they can't get a penalty and hold them.... Lookout blocks should not be an option.

How many true freshmen are out there? Have they got a year under their belt of practice or did they just start practicing about week 9 or so of this year? What is the excuse at the RT position?

Center, yes he walked on could not break the 2 deep at UAB. It starts with the center , blocking assignments, where is the safety, how are they lining up. Has he not been getting a scouting report and watching video? Has he been practicing at all? Does second string mean that you need to be just as prepared as first string? Of course. Is it gonna be harder for him to come and fill the shoes of JB and lead these guys? Why yes of course it is. Consistency is a good thing. It's even tougher when you come in with not much PT and try to lead younger guys. But these guys have been playing all year, they're not young anymore.

Yes, I played OL in high school and yes I could have played college football in either the Ivy League or Big 12. The OL is tough and tough to learn schemes, but the improvement is not there, the footwork and agility is not there. Week 11 and confusion is there because of their alignments. That's bad preparation by somebody. If you're that far along and have not seen all possible scenarios then somebody is not during their job, I don't care how young you are. But the kicker is that even when you do know who to block, you fail because your feet are stuck in the mud. Being that slow is just not right.

They can watch film and practice techniques all day long, but if they don't have the talent to stop the man on the other side of the line of scrimmage, there is not much you can do. It doesn't come down to just one man on the OL, they have to do it as a group. If the OL is not good as a group, then the team is not going to be successfull. Taylor Britt could not have started at UAB, much less an other SEC school. The only reason he is playing now is because we don't have anyone else. That is nothing against Taylor Britt, I think he has probably given it 100%, but sometimes the guy on the other side of you is just better than you are. Auburn and LSU had the deepest and fastest group of Defensive linemen we played all year. Some people might put UT ahead of them in that category, but we had JB Closner at that time. If I remember right, we only scored 6 points against UT. What most people on this board who are complaining about the OL have failed to realize is just how much probation affected us in the years after the probation was actually handed down. We are very thin at OL compared to most SEC teams, especially Auburn and LSU who are at least probably 3 or 4 deep at each position. That depth they have comes from recruits they signed 3, 4, even 5 years ago. During that same time period, Alabama was in a situation where they could only recruit a limited number of players, and also many of the most talented players decided to attend other schools because of the negative publicity Alabama received due to the probation. These problems will be taken care of, but the only way they will be is by good recruiting. Then, once you get them in the program, it takes time to develop them into a solid unit. We still have not had the time to get the players into the system that we need to be as strong up front as we used to be. I would say in the next couple of years, we will be to that point, but until then, we will suffer through some growing pains. Auburn's center and both tackles were seniors who have been together for a good while. Also, at least one of those tackles will probably be a first round draft pick next year in the NFL. Currently, we can't say that about any of ours.

 

[Bama323]

Please don't compare this team to Coach Bryant's, he had the insight to change when things weren't working. I do not see that approach from this staff, except on the defensive side. Some one mentioned that you can't coach youth, but you can, it's called experience.If someone misses an assignment, get them out and put someone in who may not be as talented, but they want to contribute and maybe they can help.You can't coach heart, but you can coach experience or at least give a kid a chance to gain it.Something this OL coach has yet to do. Coaching and being successful at Wash State is not the same as the SEC

Coach Bryant was given time to turn things around and change things. Coach Shula is currently in his third year and he just finished the regular season 9-2. I'd say he is beginning to do something right. Also, coach Bryant did not have to rebuild a team that was just coming off of probation and under heavy scholarship reductions.

Sure, you can put someone in who may not be as talented, especially if they want to contribute, but who do you put in when there is no one left? That is exactly my point, we don't have anyone left.

 

[ihatefulmer]

All I said was maybe we could consider taking a little bigger split between offensive linemen. That's all. I can handle losing to Auburn. I don't live in Alabama, and I'm not married to an Auburn grad. Plus, I know it's only a game.

I'm just talking about the x's and o's, really.

After the season, I may bring up something about the fundamental necessity to field every punt you can get to that is both in play and outside the 10 or 15 yard line.

There will be people that disagree.

I'm just talking about the x's and o's, really.

Sometimes its not the X's and O's sometimes its the Jimmy's and Joe's

 

[talisitider]

BAMA323-
Sure as you say we were 9-2, great year thus far. I applaud Shula and staff for that. All I am saying is that there is major work to be done on the OL after taking in a full season. The excuses you made do not excuse the poor skills displayed this year. Sure I realize we've been hurt with recruiting, we all know that, but it is much deeper than that. The talent that we do have should be showing improvement as far as their skills throughout the year, we did not see that. Flatfooted and slow with guys in the 280 range is inexcusable, you would expect these guys to be more agile and have better skill.

I'm not buying into your excuses. Talent, depth, inexperience, youth..... softmores, whatever you wanna paint. The footwork, agility, and technique should be better even if they were all walk-ons.... It's just not happening, especially at the tackle slots. Keep digging, there's a pony in there somewhere.....

 

[ihatefulmer]

I'm not buying into your excuses. Talent, depth, inexperience, youth..... softmores, whatever you wanna paint. The footwork, agility, and technique should be better even if they were all walk-ons.... It's just not happening, especially at the tackle slots. Keep digging, there's a pony in there somewhere.....

I just found the Jack.

 

[Bama323]

I'm not buying into your excuses. Talent, depth, inexperience, youth..... softmores, whatever you wanna paint. The footwork, agility, and technique should be better even if they were all walk-ons.... It's just not happening, especially at the tackle slots. Keep digging, there's a pony in there somewhere.....

I'm not painting anything, I'm giving you pure facts. We are down depth wise on the OL because of the effects of reduced scholarships and probation several years ago. Because we don't have as many players in the system as we should, we have less talent to draw from. I could understand it might be a coaching issue if we had not won our first 9 games this season, but the fact that we did win those games proves to me it's not about the coaching, its about the players and losing what little depth we have to injury. Ask yourself again after the 2008 season if depth and talent do not make any difference.

 

[Bama Reb]

It amazes me how little most people really know about football. All the talk about schemes and play calling etc.

I have an idea.....

take Auburn and Lsu and put their freshmen and softmores on the offensive line and let's play. What do you think would happen. Our defense would overwhelm them. I hope you get the point. Relax and be patient!

Just my two cents worth:
You know, all that would be well and good if this was the first game of the season. But it wasn't and it's not. During the first 9 games, the Tide came out onto the field ready to play. They tried their best, and showed it. in BDS and on the road, they acted as a single team. They played on their opponents weaknesses, then reached way down deep and found a way to win.
Conversely in the game against Auburn, the Tide looked like it didn't have a clue. The plays were reminiscent of last year's vanilla offense, and looked a lot like those of a team in it's first game of the season, trying to find it's identity and where each player would work best. My problem is that this is 12 weeks into the season, and the team should have already developed their identity, and the players should have gelled into some type of productive unit. The coaches should have had their players disciplined with a legitimate a game plan to put into action.
So the "freshman - sophomore" excuses just don't cut it this late in the season. - Not after the progress of the first 9 games and after every UA fan in the nation has gotten their hopes up and are seeing their team rebound from the pits and now nationally projected into the BCS standings.
By the last game of the season, the Iron Bowl, the team should have found itself. The coaches should have a clue.
If this loss were in the early part of the season, it would be understandable. And it's not so much the loss - to heck with the loss. I understand getting outplayed. In every collegiate football game, one team gets outplayed. That's what happened in the LSU game, but at least we tried. But to fight your way thru the entire season, to win 9 in a row and then stand there in the final game of the regular season and look like you don't even know your way out of the dressing room is not understandable. As much as I hate the phrase "Deer in the headlights", it's very appropriate because that's exactly what the Tide and their coaches looked like.
I, as a fan, am now left similarly staring into nothingness wondering what the heck is going on. I haven't a clue, and I'm not so sure CMS does either. JMHO