When Coach Saban was hired, the "book" on him, at least according to some of the press, was: great recruiter, motivator, and organizer, but just average on the sidelines. In other words, some seemed to think his success was more a product of recruiting than x's and o's. But in my opinion, with few exceptions, 'Bama consistently hits the field with an effective gameplan and makes smart halftime adjustments. Just wondering how others would rate Saban in this area.
Question: Saban as a gameday coach
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NFL coaches seemed to think his defensive scheme was one of the hardest to prepare for in the league. If it's good enough to make NFL guys work, it's good enough for college. Pete Carroll was a mediocre NFL coach and look at him.
I think the only "fault" you could find with Saban is that he appears to be hands off with offensive playcalling, but this year he seems to talk more and more about what he's looking for out of the offense...so I don't think that is entirely correct either.
I think the only "fault" you could find with Saban is that he appears to be hands off with offensive playcalling, but this year he seems to talk more and more about what he's looking for out of the offense...so I don't think that is entirely correct either.
I read a couple of articles on Saban at the time Alabama hired him. I can't remember who wrote the articles, but both said he was an average x and o's coach. I also heard a knock on him at the same time that he had never had an undefeated season as a head coach.
He's also never had back-to-back 10-win seasons in his career either. I think what people need to figure out that they just don't build them like Bama boys. He had to create a culture of winning in East Lansing and Baton Rouge, though Alabama had declined greatly since 1999...the spirit and culture of winning was still here, he just had to breath life into it. Every coach Alabama's ever had besides Ears Whitworth has won 10 games or went undefeated, I believe...and not all of them were Wade, Thomas, Bryant, and Stallings. Some were mediocre coaches like Curry and Franchoine...some more recently were somewhat worse than mediocre.
The heights Saban can reach at Alabama will far exceed what he ever did at LSU in my humble opinion. Not a knock against our LSU patrons, but comparing the ceiling for a program like LSU to Alabama is like comparing Ok State to Oklahoma. Saban's always been a perfectly fine coach with X's and O's. He's shown a good ability at calling the trick play when nobody expects it while still playing a smart efficient offense. Heck, he's been openly complaining about wanting us to attack teams deep more. People try to throw him in the same category as the Sweater-vest in Columbus: methodical defensive-minded coach who is risk-aversive. He's been around the NFL game too long to not know the importance of balance on offense.
The heights Saban can reach at Alabama will far exceed what he ever did at LSU in my humble opinion. Not a knock against our LSU patrons, but comparing the ceiling for a program like LSU to Alabama is like comparing Ok State to Oklahoma. Saban's always been a perfectly fine coach with X's and O's. He's shown a good ability at calling the trick play when nobody expects it while still playing a smart efficient offense. Heck, he's been openly complaining about wanting us to attack teams deep more. People try to throw him in the same category as the Sweater-vest in Columbus: methodical defensive-minded coach who is risk-aversive. He's been around the NFL game too long to not know the importance of balance on offense.
I have no way of knowing about what he says into headset, nor am I an X & O guy. But my guess is that Coach Saban does his best coaching during practice and the rest takes care of itself.
In my humble opinion, Coach Saban is the best coach in the game. I truly believe we have the college version of Bill Belichick. Someone that will not just out coach you on the weekends, but will also out prepare you Monday through Friday. I remember watching an interview with him during his LSWho days saying that he likes to take chances offensively, that he is not the typical defensive minded coach who like to play it close to the vest. I think if Coach Saban stays here for a while and I believe he will, he will win multiple secc and potentially multiple national championships.:biga:
Lord, I hope not. Going for it on 4th and 2 from your own 30 yard line with 2 minutes left in the game and a 6 point lead?
I can guarantee you that Saban would NEVER pull a stunt like that.
I think CNS handles the X's, O's, ebbs and flows of a game better than I expected. You always hear, in b-ball and football, that the coaches who make the best halftime adjustments win the 3rd quarter. I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but the last two years, we've won the 1st and 3rd quarters pretty handily.
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Ew ... ouch. It don't take 20/20 vision to read between those lines.
Gotta agree, especially in light of the recent article about the guy who played for both coaches. Those guys are just football machines (though I'm sure Saban would have punted against the Colts the other night :smile
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DiamondDust
Hall of Fame
Lord, I hope not. Going for it on 4th and 2 from your own 30 yard line with 2 minutes left in the game and a 6 point lead?
With the offense New England has against Indy's defense, two yards in that situation should have been a cakewalk. As a Patriots fan, I don't blame Coach Belichick for going for it on 4th down. He treats the Indy game like a playoff game, which it is in a way since it usually decides home field advantage, and he went for the win right then and there. The only issue I had with the call was that when Indy got the ball back... New England should have let them walk into the endzone on the first play. I don't care if they laid down on the field or had to carry the Colts' player past the goal-line... if they had gotten the ball back quickly, they would have gotten to field goal range.
Like Coach Belichick, who he learned under and is still real good friends with, Coach Saban knows games are won before you even step out on the field on Saturday.
To me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks like this, but you can tell a lot about a coach as to how he gets onto his players after they make a mistake. He lets them know about it, he doesn't just pat them on the back and say you tried.
No doubt about it, CNS is one of the best coaches in College Football and the quality we get from our players every game exemplifies it.
No doubt about it, CNS is one of the best coaches in College Football and the quality we get from our players every game exemplifies it.
Not to fly off-topic, but I too agree that Belichick made the right call considering all the circumstances: his offensive talent, their production for 58-minutes previously in the game, Indy's struggles in pass defense all night, and Peyton Manning - who just drove for two TDs in two straight 3-minute drives - sitting on the other sideline hoping to get the ball back. The thing is about Peyton is that even if he's struggled in a game, if he's figured you out...you are in trouble. You hope that you can keep him guessing long enough that it won't matter. When you have Tom Brady, their corp of receivers, and two yards between you and winning the game...I don't think you can blame him. Both of Peyton's INTs were really on his receivers running an incorrect route, there was little doubt that Peyton was going to score a TD anyway in my opinion (as a Colts fan). Of course, the media is result driven...it would have been another genius Belichick-ian move if Faulk just didn't bobble the catch.
Think back to the LSU game. After the refs - in my opinion mistakingly - didn't call roughing the kicker but running into the kicker, Saban was left with a decision: go for it on 4th and inches and try to get the last 10-15 yards needed to extend this game to a two-score lead OR play to your defense and try to execute a coffin corner kick. Fitzgerald has done well this season, but we've missed some opportunities in net punt by some barely missed inside the 5/10 yard line punts. We line up in wildcat and Ingram gets the yard...but what if he was stuffed? LSU gets the ball around their 40 with enough time to try to long-drive for a winning TD and leave us with little time to score.
So both situations are very similar. A defensive-minded coach plays to his offense and goes for the win right there instead of giving the opponent an opportunity. It worked out for Saban and it makes him look wise for picking the right spot to be aggressive on offense, but Belichick looks like a dope. So when some people say Saban was a mediocre X's and O's coach at other stops I think they are putting too much emphasis on results.
And that is the deal, people equate results completely with X's and O's...which I don't think has a complete 1-to-1 correlation. Ultimately, football comes down to players making plays. I know that sounds trite, but just look at that 4th and 2 play in the Colts-Pats game. Faulk doesn't bobble that ball, it was a first down and game over for the Colts. Saban's going to have some of those LSU 8-4 teams at Alabama...you can see the struggles that Stoops has had this year after being a lock for 10+ wins the whole decade. You can't avoid it, sometimes you have too much turnover or too many injuries and it shows up on the W-L ledger. That 2002 LSU team was very good until they lost Mauck and forced Randall on the field. The 2004 team lost the majority of the defensive core and their QB from the 03 title team. So was it that Saban was a mediocre gameday coach or just roster and injury circumstances? Rosters and health change day-to-day, year-to-year...for the most part, good coaches stay the same.
Think back to the LSU game. After the refs - in my opinion mistakingly - didn't call roughing the kicker but running into the kicker, Saban was left with a decision: go for it on 4th and inches and try to get the last 10-15 yards needed to extend this game to a two-score lead OR play to your defense and try to execute a coffin corner kick. Fitzgerald has done well this season, but we've missed some opportunities in net punt by some barely missed inside the 5/10 yard line punts. We line up in wildcat and Ingram gets the yard...but what if he was stuffed? LSU gets the ball around their 40 with enough time to try to long-drive for a winning TD and leave us with little time to score.
So both situations are very similar. A defensive-minded coach plays to his offense and goes for the win right there instead of giving the opponent an opportunity. It worked out for Saban and it makes him look wise for picking the right spot to be aggressive on offense, but Belichick looks like a dope. So when some people say Saban was a mediocre X's and O's coach at other stops I think they are putting too much emphasis on results.
And that is the deal, people equate results completely with X's and O's...which I don't think has a complete 1-to-1 correlation. Ultimately, football comes down to players making plays. I know that sounds trite, but just look at that 4th and 2 play in the Colts-Pats game. Faulk doesn't bobble that ball, it was a first down and game over for the Colts. Saban's going to have some of those LSU 8-4 teams at Alabama...you can see the struggles that Stoops has had this year after being a lock for 10+ wins the whole decade. You can't avoid it, sometimes you have too much turnover or too many injuries and it shows up on the W-L ledger. That 2002 LSU team was very good until they lost Mauck and forced Randall on the field. The 2004 team lost the majority of the defensive core and their QB from the 03 title team. So was it that Saban was a mediocre gameday coach or just roster and injury circumstances? Rosters and health change day-to-day, year-to-year...for the most part, good coaches stay the same.
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I just don't get where this "mediocre X's and O's" talk comes from. I mean, there are few "football experts" who would tell you that CNS isn't one of the greatest defensive minds in football, pro or college, and that he isn't also equally adept at defensive playcalling. Isn't that what "X's and O's" means? Abilty to develop and execute a unique scheme and call it on saturday?
Lord, I hope not. Going for it on 4th and 2 from your own 30 yard line with 2 minutes left in the game and a 6 point lead?
Stunt? I don't think so. In football, 2 minutes is an eternity. FB teams practice their own "2 minute drill" week in and week out. Even if you punt, your opponent has a decent chance of marching the ball downfield, getting a TD and then kicking the extra point to win the game. In your scenario, (it's 4th and 2, you're up by 6 with 2 minutes to go), it's not unreasonable at all to go for the 1st down to maintain control of the ball, run the clock out and secure the win.
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His defensive scheme is very complex, but very effective. Its my belief that he is one of the best coaches at making adjustments.
Ah, but your omitting one KEY fact.... it's your own 30 yard line your playing from. Not to needlessly bring up another CPB reference but I don't ever remember him making that type decision. Maybe from the opponents 40, where it's a long shot field goal, or even mid-field, but your own 30? That's almost guaranteeing that the decision is a 50/50 proposition. Make it and you win the game, don't and you lose. If you punt then they have to go 80 yards (assuming a good punt). Statistically speaking, and probably football-wise, it's just not a good decision. Not to mention the signal it sends to your defense. I must admit I liked him doing that because it made the game a heck of a lot more exciting and it gave us something to talk about. :wink:
Nick Saban is perfect for Alabama football -- because he IS a defensive-minded football coach.
The evidence is plentiful that if Bear Bryant won all eleven games each by a score of 3-0, he would prefer that over winning all eleven by, say, 39-28.
Remember the Archie Manning-Scott Hunter game of 1968? I forget the exact score, but each quarterback threw for over 500 yards, and after the game all Bear could say was something like, "That was the worst played game I ever saw."
I don't know much about Coach Frank Thomas, who was Bryant's mentor, nor do I know much about Wallace Wade. But Bear Bryant preferred that his defense gain excellence before his offense scored much at all. He actually said something like this: "Defense wins; offense is for TV."
By the late seventies, the offense AND the defense were cranked up, with the likes of Major Ogilvie and Tony Nathan, but still the defense determined the identity of Alabama football. In fact, the Wishbone is an offense, IMO, that looks like a defense. It is rock-'em, sock -'em football, any way you cut it.
Bear had the great quarterbacks in the sixties -- Namath, Stabler, Hunter. But he was dissatisfied with that style of football. His favorite quarterback was Pat Trammell, whose passes often looked like dying ducks. It was Pat's tough-mindedness that Bryant liked.
Oh yeah, we wish the media would exclaim about Alabama dominating their opponents, like Oklahoma or one of those other scoring machines, and instead Alabama has been grinding out the wins with little fanfare.
If they keep doing that, Alabama wins the National Championship. The Bear would be pleased.
The evidence is plentiful that if Bear Bryant won all eleven games each by a score of 3-0, he would prefer that over winning all eleven by, say, 39-28.
Remember the Archie Manning-Scott Hunter game of 1968? I forget the exact score, but each quarterback threw for over 500 yards, and after the game all Bear could say was something like, "That was the worst played game I ever saw."
I don't know much about Coach Frank Thomas, who was Bryant's mentor, nor do I know much about Wallace Wade. But Bear Bryant preferred that his defense gain excellence before his offense scored much at all. He actually said something like this: "Defense wins; offense is for TV."
By the late seventies, the offense AND the defense were cranked up, with the likes of Major Ogilvie and Tony Nathan, but still the defense determined the identity of Alabama football. In fact, the Wishbone is an offense, IMO, that looks like a defense. It is rock-'em, sock -'em football, any way you cut it.
Bear had the great quarterbacks in the sixties -- Namath, Stabler, Hunter. But he was dissatisfied with that style of football. His favorite quarterback was Pat Trammell, whose passes often looked like dying ducks. It was Pat's tough-mindedness that Bryant liked.
Oh yeah, we wish the media would exclaim about Alabama dominating their opponents, like Oklahoma or one of those other scoring machines, and instead Alabama has been grinding out the wins with little fanfare.
If they keep doing that, Alabama wins the National Championship. The Bear would be pleased.
Great post. Like my high school coach used to say. Defense wins championships, offense sells the tickets.
I don't understand why everyone says it tells the defense Belichick has no faith in them. I would take it as "we've got a chance to win it here, but my defense still has a chance to win us the game if it doesn't work out. When you punt you take one chance of winning completely out of the equation.
Also, didn't the defense prove 100% that they had no chance in Hades of stopping the Colts? They scored in 4 plays, including a run up the gut for 13 yards. The last 20 yards is the hardest to get against a prevent defense, as the team has less area to cover. Manning and co. pretty much walked in. I don't see why anyone thinks that another 40 yards would have changed anything.
There were some coaching mistakes made, but I don't think the decision to go for it was the bad decision. I think the bad decision was to pass on third down if you're going to go for it anyways, and to call a play that has routes that go only to the first down marker - you leave yourself no room for error. Also, if the Pats had timeouts left they could have kept some time on the clock.
Just my two cents, and while I see why a lot of people would not have made the decision - I don't think it's a BAD decision. Sometimes good decisions (not really saying this is one, I go back and forth) don't work out either.
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