Shula Documentary: Makes you think a little.

[westide]

I can blame both, and Shula was held accountable for his failure to achieve.

From what I remember Shula was very hesitant about taking the job but he eventually bought the sells pitch. There was nothing in his resume that demonstrated he was ready for such a job. If a person whether a manager, supervisor, or some other position of authority places someone in a job that they know the person is not qualified to do then they own the results. It was a knee-jerk reaction by those in leadership at that time. I am sure Shula would admit he made many mistakes. However, when people talk about the Shula years it is all on Mike Shula. At least you are fair-minded.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

From what I remember Shula was very hesitant about taking the job but he eventually bought the sells pitch. There was nothing in his resume that demonstrated he was ready for such a job. If a person whether a manager, supervisor, or some other position of authority places someone in a job that they know the person is not qualified to do then they own the results. It was a knee-jerk reaction by those in leadership at that time. I [/I]am sure Shula would admit he made many mistakes. However, when people talk about the Shula years it is all on Mike Shula. At least you are fair-minded.

Among the coaches who would have realistically come in the post-spring practice off-season of 2003 (April /May time frame), who, specifically, do you think they should have pursued?

 

[imauafan]

Curry was meeting with UK officials less than 24 hours BEFORE his team was to take the field for the 1990 Sugar Bowl.

Not after.

BEFORE.

You can't do that. Not at Alabama you can't. Had it been an NFL job, it would have been despicable still but at least understandable. Not Kentucky. Not in football.

And he's spent the last 30-plus years revising history and claiming something about "the Alabama mafia" and his edge showed in every game of ours he called on ESPN.

To be clear, I don't despise Curry at all and didn't when he was here, but I wasn't exactly sad to see him go, either.

I believe it was Dan Dierdorf who spent much of the Sugar Bowl criticizing Bama fans for not being all-in on Bill Curry. I'm sure he was already tipped off by Curry.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

From what I remember Shula was very hesitant about taking the job but he eventually bought the sells pitch. There was nothing in his resume that demonstrated he was ready for such a job. If a person whether a manager, supervisor, or some other position of authority places someone in a job that they know the person is not qualified to do then they own the results. It was a knee-jerk reaction by those in leadership at that time. I am sure Shula would admit he made many mistakes. However, when people talk about the Shula years it is all on Mike Shula. At least you are fair-minded.

Thank you.
I DO try to be.

I put Shula alongside Dubious as Exhibits 1A and 1B of "the SEC does not allow you time for on-the-job training." YES, Kirby Smart has been another exception.

But that doesn't change the rule.

Nick Saban didn't have his first college HEAD coaching gig at Alabama.
Neither did Urban Meyer nor Mack Brown nor Jim Tressel nor most of the other successful coaches.
Les Miles didn't start at LSU, either.

Compare the list of coaches who won national titles and almost always and ESPECIALLY in the SEC, it's coaches who were head coaches somewhere else first, made their rookie mistakes and bad decisions out of the limelight where nobody cared and learned from them.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I 100% agree it's on his bosses for hiring him - that was stupid.

That said, being an undisciplined softy as a HC is not an on anyone other than Shula.

 

[TideATL70]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread as the 84-86 years were my early teens and when I REALLY got into Tide Football and I loved Mike Shula the player-those years had some of the highest highs and lowest lows. Perkins was still navigating how to succeed a Legend and I remember being crushed when he left to go back to the NFL.
I agree with 99% of what's been said here but I'd love for Shula/Croom to bury any hatchet and come back to be recognized in some manner at a game.
I recall some nasty words from Don about CNS leaving the Dolphins and maybe that burnt some bridges?

 

[TideATL70]

One other quick thought, although I'm sure there is a thread deep in here somewhere. I know Coach Perkins passed away a few? years ago and he was residing in T-Town. Did anyone here have any contact with him? I know he'd been at ARKY State in the 90's and then more NFL assistant positions before finally retiring I think near Hattiesburg MS. Makes me want to dig up an old article on his passing as I'm sure Cecil Hurt did one!

 

[graydogg85]

If we had hired Sylvester Croom as head coach, just imagine the fallout and bad press we would have gotten when we fired him, which is how that was going to end.

"Alabama, the state where George Wallace stood in the doorway to prevent blacks from attending a mere 40 years ago, today stood in the doorway of advancement again by firing a black coach whom they hired after suffering the second most crippling probation in NCAA history and not giving him a fair chance, leaving him with a decimated team and demanding immediate results. Nothing has changed in Alabama since blah blah blah."

That's what would have happened. Let's be honest: MSU only hired him because they were in the crosshairs of an NZAA investigation and could say, "We'll hire the dude if you'll go lightly on us."

I watched "The Sports Reporters" try to say - and they literally did say - "Alabama should have done the right thing," which to them was hire Croom. Why was this "the right thing?" Well, you know their reasoning on that. Notre Dame had hired Willingham - and amazingly enough, they were savaging Notre Dame "because they only did the right thing after they learned O'Leary lied on his resume." Again - why is "hire the guy on the basis of his race THE RIGHT THING?"


My take in 2003?

"Look, we're probably going to go through this again in 4-5 years. Hire Shula because you're gonna get 1/3 the grief when he gets fired you're gonna get for firing Croom."

I liked Croom until he became a petulant child at MSU over not getting the job here.

Years ago I recall hearing that Mal Moore favored Croom and wanted to hire him as opposed to Shula or Williamson.....but then Croom showed up totally unprepared for the interview. Couldn't articulate his plans for offense, defense, coordinators, etc.. Basically seemed like Croom thought the job was his and the interview was a formality, which turned Mal Moore off.

I have no idea if that was true, but I'm pretty sure I heard it on this board.

I also remember hearing on this board that there were multiple standing head coaches in May 2003 who reached out to us about the job and the narrative that "no one else wanted the job" was hogwash.....Mal Moore and the powers at the time decided to narrow the field to exclusively Bama guys because of everything the school had just been through with Franchione and Price. Two names that I heard were Urban Meyer and Les Miles. Neither of them were really proven commodities at that point, but still....

 

[teamplayer]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread as the 84-86 years were my early teens and when I REALLY got into Tide Football and I loved Mike Shula the player-those years had some of the highest highs and lowest lows. Perkins was still navigating how to succeed a Legend and I remember being crushed when he left to go back to the NFL.
I agree with 99% of what's been said here but I'd love for Shula/Croom to bury any hatchet and come back to be recognized in some manner at a game.
I recall some nasty words from Don about CNS leaving the Dolphins and maybe that burnt some bridges?

Croom is who I thought they should have hired. I don't know if we would have won any more or not, but I guarantee that we would NOT have been soft. I know Croom got his feelings hurt and said some things that have burned bridges for many, but I wish he would have been given the chance.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I 100% agree it's on his bosses for hiring him - that was stupid.

That said, being an undisciplined softy as a HC is not an on anyone other than Shula.

When the boss has a bad hire, the boss answers to his/her bosses just as Shula did.
Mal hit a home run the next time up, though. I'll give him that.

 

[Al A Bama]

Is there a reason why Coach Shula has not been selected as a head coach since his time as HC at Alabama: either in college or the NFL?

 

[SkullDuckery]

I have always thought that Prothro getting hurt cost Bama an SEC title and maybe a shot at a NC. That guy was electric. Look at the points-per-game decline after his injury. The guy was worth 14 a game. He might not score them all, but his kick returns, and the attention he demanded set up other guys. He was awesome.

No doubt, with that defense we could have made a run. It’s was a stark deference once he was gone. Kind of like the 2021 title game once Williams went down.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

It was great until Pro got hurt and ended his career and the teams chance of an SEC title. .

Yeah, he should have been taken out long before that play

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

I believe it was Dan Dierdorf who spent much of the Sugar Bowl criticizing Bama fans for not being all-in on Bill Curry. I'm sure he was already tipped off by Curry.

I remember that, and at the time Dan, IIRC, was pals with Curry..............nobody really cared for Dierderp, and I was also glad to see Bill hit the road...........

 

[GulfCoastTider]

Mike Shula is a good man who stepped into a job that he simply wasn't qualified to fill. Everything that went wrong during his tenure was a direct result of his just not knowing any better.

He has established himself as one of the best QB coaches and Offensive Coordinators in the NFL. He seems to be very happy in that role, and he's eminently qualified for it. He may seek (and will probably get) a head coaching job in the bigs and his experience there gives him a good chance at success.

But I am really, really glad that was then and this is now.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Is there a reason why Coach Shula has not been selected as a head coach since his time as HC at Alabama: either in college or the NFL?

I don't have any inside information, but I'd surmise:
1) he makes better money in the NFL as a coordinator
2) he likes that better
3) no school has looked and said, "Meh, he was pretty good, a little polish and we can win"

 

[rtr90]

Curry was meeting with UK officials less than 24 hours BEFORE his team was to take the field for the 1990 Sugar Bowl.

Not after.

BEFORE.

You can't do that. Not at Alabama you can't. Had it been an NFL job, it would have been despicable still but at least understandable. Not Kentucky. Not in football.

And he's spent the last 30-plus years revising history and claiming something about "the Alabama mafia" and his edge showed in every game of ours he called on ESPN.

To be clear, I don't despise Curry at all and didn't when he was here, but I wasn't exactly sad to see him go, either.

You are referring to 1990 .. what happened between 87-89 ... there was hatred and bricks were thrown... cannot blame Curry for 1990 when you do that

 

[BamaInBham]

Don't blame Mike Shula. Blame the people that hired him. Mal Moore did redeem himself by hiring Shula, but he is make some very bad decisions before that. Shula did come in at a bad time. He made a classic mistake. He chose assistants that he felt comfortable with rather than getting the best assistants he could find.

Mal Moore did not want to hire Shula nor Croom but Richard Williamson. He was overridden. Neither Shula nor Croom should have been big time college HCs. Shula seemed to have no clue about staff. I don't think he was loyal as much as he was unaware of what he was doing.

Mal Moore knew football coaches. Williamson would have been a solid hire - probably as as good as Alabama could have done at that odd time of year. He would have been a far better choice than Shula or Croom, probably Stallings-lite, though more of an offensive coach. He was tough, no non-sense and smart enough.

I guess the next al.com documentary will be the "Ears years - 'what we wish were er uh, should be', the norm for Alabama football". Of course nothing about what is easily the greatest run in college football history. Actually, one of the greatest runs in mature, major (MLB, NFL, NBA, NCAAF, NCAAB) American sports history.

 

[BamaInBham]

My unsolicited $.02 on Shula.

Good: a good guy who was a damn fine and very tough QB for Bama (his senior year was my freshman year). Took the job at the worst time of year for hiring assistants and prepping for the season and in spite of his lack of obvious qualifications for an SEC HC gig. Never cheated or embarrassed the school as the 2 Mikes before him did). Didn't leave the cupboard bare for Saban despite NCAA sanctions.

Bad: all the things that come from being promoted beyond one's skill/experience. Did not surround himself with assistants who could've helped him grow in the job (calling Dad doesn't count). Allowed a poor culture to fester within the team. Poor in-game management. Slapdash approach to recruiting/talent evaluation. Darby Up The Middle. Too loyal to inferior assistants (Rader/Connolly) and refused to upgrade his staff whenever he had the opportunity.

tldr: He kept the program away from total implosion but was never going to contend for championships of any kind.

His dismissal was unfortunate but inevitable. It's a shame things ended so badly between UA and the the Shulas that Mike is unlikely to return and at least be acknowledged for his accomplishments on the field.

My understanding was that Shula had never been on campus after he graduated. As far as I know, he had shown little or no interest in the program. I have no inside info or personal knowledge of that, I'm just going by what was expressed on msg boards and maybe the local media, not sure. But that was the impression of some.

There was a period in the 70s and 80s when his dad showed an affinity for Alabama players, e.g., Baumhower, Nathan, McNeal and others.

 

[westide]

Mal Moore did not want to hire Shula nor Croom but Richard Williamson. He was overridden. Neither Shula nor Croom should have been big time college HCs. Shula seemed to have no clue about staff. I don't think he was loyal as much as he was unaware of what he was doing.

Mal Moore knew football coaches. Williamson would have been a solid hire - probably as as good as Alabama could have done at that odd time of year. He would have been a far better choice than Shula or Croom, probably Stallings-lite, though more of an offensive coach. He was tough, no non-sense and smart enough.

I guess the next al.com documentary will be the "Ears years - 'what we wish were er uh, should be', the norm for Alabama football". Of course nothing about what is easily the greatest run in college football history. Actually, one of the greatest runs in mature, major (MLB, NFL, NBA, NCAAF, NCAAB) American sports history.