Syria: What Next?

[Its On A Slab]

* Do we sit on the sidelines and let everybody kill each other? The region has been nothing but blood and swords for millenias.
*Does the US and allies (M.E. and Europe) orchestrate a mini-Marshall Plan for Syria. With tons of benchmarks(respect for religious minorities, human rights, stamping out the arms flow to Hezbollah/Hamas, making peace with Israel, etc). Probably pie-in-the-sky.

I am sitting back laughing at Iran and Russia at the moment. Syria was always their easy pawn for mischief in the region. As of now, it's all cut off. Russia has its Saigon moment. Iran's been crippled by the hollowing out of Hamas/Hezbollah, and now this.

 

[Bamaro]

There is a temporary coalition of rebel forces. Some good, some not. Overall this overthrow is good news, for now.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

My understanding is that Israel is looking to carve out a hefty chunk for themselves. If that is true, U.S. involvement is inevitable.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

It's also worth pointing out that Assad was the most tolerant leader in the ME when it came to Christians. We are likely to see genocide and persecution like we haven't seen in many years at the hands of Israel and their radically anti-Christian Muslim allies that will be leading the nation following Assad's ouster.

 

[AWRTR]

Have we not learned anything from the past almost 25 years? You can't rebuild these countries. We couldn't do it in Iraq or Afghanistan and we can't do it in Syria. The culture isn't compatible with Western liberal values. We can't make the square peg fit into a round hole in Syria. If they want to change and have a true democratically elected government then awesome, but we can't force that and any rebuilding will just be throwing money we don't have away because Islamists will just come tear down anything we try to build for the people there.

Let the UN do it if someone wants to try. Isn't that part of why they exist?

 

[Tidewater]

* Do we sit on the sidelines and let everybody kill each other? The region has been nothing but blood and swords for millenias.
*Does the US and allies (M.E. and Europe) orchestrate a mini-Marshall Plan for Syria. With tons of benchmarks(respect for religious minorities, human rights, stamping out the arms flow to Hezbollah/Hamas, making peace with Israel, etc). Probably pie-in-the-sky.

"Hey, maybe this time when I stick my fork in the electric socket it will go really well for me."

 

[Tidewater]

* Do we sit on the sidelines and let everybody kill each other? The region has been nothing but blood and swords for millenias.
*Does the US and allies (M.E. and Europe) orchestrate a mini-Marshall Plan for Syria. With tons of benchmarks(respect for religious minorities, human rights, stamping out the arms flow to Hezbollah/Hamas, making peace with Israel, etc). Probably pie-in-the-sky.

I am sitting back laughing at Iran and Russia at the moment. Syria was always their easy pawn for mischief in the region. As of now, it's all cut off. Russia has its Saigon moment. Iran's been crippled by the hollowing out of Hamas/Hezbollah, and now this.

The Brits seem keen to intervene. I wish them well.

A certain set of conditions existing in Syria produced the Assad regime and kept it in power for 50 years. (a refusal to respect human rights, a refusal to embrace representative democracy, and acceptance of totalitarian regimes, and acceptance of suppression of democratic norms, etc.).
Those conditions still exist on the ground, even with Assad gone.
I will predict that in 10 years someone who looks and acts a lot like Assad will be in power in Syria. And there's nothing anybody in the West can do about it.

 

[Its On A Slab]

The Brits seem keen to intervene. I wish them well.

A certain set of conditions existing in Syria produced the Assad regime and kept it in power for 50 years. (a refusal to respect human rights, a refusal to embrace representative democracy, and acceptance of totalitarian regimes, and acceptance of suppression of democratic norms, etc.).
Those conditions still exist on the ground, even with Assad gone.
I will predict that in 10 years someone who looks and acts a lot like Assad will be in power in Syria. And there's nothing anybody in the West can do about it.
View attachment 47748

Make peace with what we can, and don't make the Bush mistake of trying to build a Western democracy in a culture that is not predisposed to even understanding those ideals.

I salute the fall of any murderous dictator, but I'm more Burkian (as in Edmund Burke). He said that (I'm paraphrasing) we should always be careful with the fruits of a revolution...as we can also have the worst result coming out of it.

That being said, I have a real sad for Vladimir and the Ayatollahs at the moment.

 

[Tidewater]

Make peace with what we can, and don't make the Bush mistake of trying to build a Western democracy in a culture that is not predisposed to even understanding those ideals.

I salute the fall of any murderous dictator, but I'm more Burkian (as in Edmund Burke). He said that (I'm paraphrasing) we should always be careful with the fruits of a revolution...as we can also have a worst result coming out of it.

That being said, I have a real sad for Vladimir and the Ayatollahs at the moment.

I welcome anyone to try and improve that place, but I'm afraid the only guy who can keep a lid on Syria an Assad-like person.
I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[AWRTR]

I welcome anyone to try and improve that place, but I'm afraid the only guy who can keep a lid on Syria an Assad-like person.
I'd love to be proven wrong.

Sadly I’m sure you are right. The entire Middle East is almost ungovernable without authoritarian strong men in power. I wish it wasn’t so.

 

[Jon]

Sadly I’m sure you are right. The entire Middle East is almost ungovernable without authoritarian strong men in power. I wish it wasn’t so.

sad history of colonialism and religion that led to this cannot be easily unwound. don't think there will ever be easy answers

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I welcome anyone to try and improve that place, but I'm afraid the only guy who can keep a lid on Syria an Assad-like person.
I'd love to be proven wrong.

Look at how destabilized Iraq and the surrounding areas became without Sadam Hussein. I expect more of the same here.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Look at how destabilized Iraq and the surrounding areas became without Sadam Hussein. I expect more of the same here.

And Libya.

We need to mind our business - help our allies if they need it but otherwise it's not our problem. We've spent far too many lives and too much money playing world police.

 

[Tidewater]

And Libya.

We need to mind our business - help our allies if they need it but otherwise it's not our problem. We've spent far too many lives and too much money playing world police.

A work colleague was part of the Libya operation. He was on the USS Mount Whitney with a joint task force commander (Navy admiral). All the planners were looking at what they were going to bomb. He asked them, "What are our objectives?" No one knew.
So this guy had a conversation with the Joint Task Force commander. He asked him, "sir what are your objectives? What are you trying to achieve?" He turned to his Political Advisor (State Department) who gave him a shrug. "I don't know." These were people about to drop bombs on people.
My colleague, then went to YouTube and looked at a bunch of policy speeches in which President Obama mentioned Libya, to try to glean what the objectives might be. He wrote up a list, gave it to the PolAd. The PolAd agreed to send this list to Foggy Bottom (Department of State) to get their thoughts. Two days later, the State Department said "Yeah, this looks good to us." This is how sausage is made.

 

[75thru79]

sad history of colonialism and religion that led to this cannot be easily unwound. don't think there will ever be easy answers

Colonialism???? That's got nothing to do with it. Most of the ME countries (with the exception of the Saudis and Dubai) are an extremely toxic patriarchy and have been since the turn of the millenium. They only respect men and then only those that are willing to kill you at the drop of a hat.

 

[mdb-tpet]

Nothing we do will help until we stop buying the oil spewing from these countries which funds the atrocities and the governments/religious fanatics that use the money to prop up their governments and disastrous religions. Drive on America.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

* Do we sit on the sidelines and let everybody kill each other? The region has been nothing but blood and swords for millenias.
*Does the US and allies (M.E. and Europe) orchestrate a mini-Marshall Plan for Syria. With tons of benchmarks(respect for religious minorities, human rights, stamping out the arms flow to Hezbollah/Hamas, making peace with Israel, etc). Probably pie-in-the-sky.

I am sitting back laughing at Iran and Russia at the moment. Syria was always their easy pawn for mischief in the region. As of now, it's all cut off. Russia has its Saigon moment. Iran's been crippled by the hollowing out of Hamas/Hezbollah, and now this.

One of my Great Nieces is married to a Syrian who is a Naturalized Citizen. Fouad would like to visit some of his kin in Syria, but he would be killed if he ever went back. Fouad graduated from Etowah Highschool. He was a Syrian Red Neck, before he got his American Citizenship.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

One of my Great Nieces is married to a Syrian who is a Naturalized Citizen. Fouad would like to visit some of his kin in Syria, but he would be killed if he ever went back. Fouad graduated from Etowah Highschool. He was a Syrian Red Neck, before he got his American Citizenship.

A Syrian redneck? I gotta say, I'm trying to create a mental image and not having much success there.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Nothing we do will help until we stop buying the oil spewing from these countries which funds the atrocities and the governments/religious fanatics that use the money to prop up their governments and disastrous religions. Drive on America.

Energy independence is a matter of national security, imo, and you're 100% correct that until we're able to stop buying their oil we'll not see the end of the terror over there.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

A Syrian redneck? I gotta say, I'm trying to create a mental image and not having much success there.

Fouad owns a Convenience Store on Canoe Creek and all his customers are Red Necks. He also owns and sells used cars.
Since Fo grew up in the Gadsden area he speaks English better than his customers. BTW... Fo is very white, Fo's mom is white. They moved to Alabama when Fo was a little boy.
Fo and his wife are life long Crimson Tide Fans.