The Decline of the American Media III

CrimsonJazz

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The previous thread cut off while the topic had turned to Facebook's new policy. Here is more information about that.


Zuckerberg said that Meta will end its fact-checking program with trusted partners and replace it with a community-driven system similar to X’s Community Notes.
Zuckerberg pointed to the election as a major influence on the company's decision and criticized "governments and legacy media" for allegedly pushing "to censor more and more."
This has been a big problem for years now and while Zuck is late to the party, at least he finally arrived. The legacy media is in its death throes and it has no one or nothing to blame but itself. I'll be first in line to shovel dirt on its face when it's time. Government-driven censorship, however, is whole nother bag of burritos. Pushing back isn't enough. The people behind this need to be exposed. Otherwise, they will do to social media what they did to journalism. It's not a matter of if, but when.
 

Bamaro

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The previous thread cut off while the topic had turned to Facebook's new policy. Here is more information about that.






This has been a big problem for years now and while Zuck is late to the party, at least he finally arrived. The legacy media is in its death throes and it has no one or nothing to blame but itself. I'll be first in line to shovel dirt on its face when it's time. Government-driven censorship, however, is whole nother bag of burritos. Pushing back isn't enough. The people behind this need to be exposed. Otherwise, they will do to social media what they did to journalism. It's not a matter of if, but when.
The legacy media is still MUCH better in presenting facts compared to online and places like Fox and Newsmax who preach to their choir. Way too many people 'chose their facts' today. Fox, Newsmax etc have close to little journalistic integrity. They tell people what they want to hear, truth be dammed.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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The legacy media is still MUCH better in presenting facts compared to online and places like Fox and Newsmax who preach to their choir. Way too many people 'chose their facts' today. Fox, Newsmax etc have close to little journalistic integrity. They tell people what they want to hear, truth be dammed.
You just described the MSM, my dude. I don't deny what you say about Fox and Newsmax because they are no different than CNN, MSNBC, network news, WaPo, etc, etc. I slap them all with a broad brush because I can't slap them with a sledgehammer.
 

Bamaro

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You just described the MSM, my dude. I don't deny what you say about Fox and Newsmax because they are no different than CNN, MSNBC, network news, WaPo, etc, etc. I slap them all with a broad brush because I can't slap them with a sledgehammer.
Network news, WaPo, WSJ etc are generally fine until you get to the editorial page. The others are all 'editorial'.
 

dtgreg

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Used to be, whatever was broadcast "over-the-air" like the four networks couldn't be outright lies. The "Fairness Doctrine" was ended by the argument that "folks are paying for cable and we don't want to censor what people watch for entertainment". Slippery slope, etc.

Not sure if the FOX, ABC NBC, CBS over-the-air broadcasts are different than what comes through your fiber or even if the anti-propaganda laws enacted after WW2 are even in effect anymore. I mean, Rush Limbaugh since the 80's...
 
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CrimsonNagus

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Otherwise, they will do to social media what they did to journalism. It's not a matter of if, but when.
What do you mean by this because from my vantage point, social media is the pile of trash at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to news reporting? There is nowhere for social media to fall because it is already there and constantly moving the bar lower. None of them care about fact-based reporting and they are only mining for clicks or "likes".
 

CrimsonJazz

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What do you mean by this because from my vantage point, social media is the pile of trash at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to news reporting? There is nowhere for social media to fall because it is already there and constantly moving the bar lower. None of them care about fact-based reporting and they are only mining for clicks or "likes".
And the answer to that is government censorship and state propaganda? No, I reject this strongly enough to take up arms. The question is not about whether or not there are bad faith actors in social media (there are.) It’s about governmental limitation (which is exactly what the constitution is based on.)
 

selmaborntidefan

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The legacy media is still MUCH better in presenting facts compared to online and places like Fox and Newsmax who preach to their choir. Way too many people 'chose their facts' today. Fox, Newsmax etc have close to little journalistic integrity. They tell people what they want to hear, truth be dammed.
Five years ago I MIGHT have agreed with this.
Not anymore.

I'll grant there was a time what you're saying was certainly truer than today. I will even agree with you (I think, I don't want to presume to speak for you, but I've never found you irrational even when I disagreed) that a lot of the "but both sides" arguments used by the pro-Faux News crowd is largely nothing but Trumpian-style gaslighting (e.g. us so-called righties lying about 1/6 is the exact same thing as lefties mis-stating something in every single case).

And the thing I find quietly amusing is "chose their facts" as those there hasn't been a cottage industry about people finding "your truth", as though truth is NOT objective by the very same people who wish to suddenly insist it IS - but only when it involves Republicans/conservatives.

But here's what I'm trying to comprehend or nail down: when did this invisible line get crossed by the legacy media? Because you and I both know Katie Couric would NEVER have tried her infamous Sarah Palin interview with Barack Obama. Set aside the fact that Obama would undoubtedly have handled such an interview better, she never would have done it. Katie was a liberal who wanted Obama to win and decided - way back in 2008 - that her calling in life ceased to be an objective journalist (I'm granting the naive notion she ever was), and she was going to play the part of the crooked referee in a wrestling match and make sure her favorite won. And if anyone thinks that assessment (which I knew the moment I watched it) is harsh, just last year she said Obama owes her a big ash bouquet for that interview and mused the late Helen Thomas said she has "saved the country" with that interview.

So back in 2008, we had the ANCHOR OF THE CBS EVENING NEWS (you know, Cronkite's chair?) inserting herself into a Presidential election to make sure the candidate she liked won (or maybe to be more accurate, the one she hated lost). I'm not absolving Palin of the fact that perpetual mis-speakers Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush would have done better in that interview, and it helped frame the notion "she's not ready for this thing."

But she never would have done such an interview with Obama, using words that had multiple meanings (Palin even asked for what she meant about one because it had a different meaning in context) or disparaged the things she'd been appealing to ("other than ABC, what are your qualifications") to accomplish her self-appointed mission.

And - just speaking theoretically - if anyone wants to say it began with her, maybe explain to us why her predecessor in the same chair decided to insert himself into the 2004 election with a concocted controversy over fake National Guard documents. And this after he inserted himself into the 1988 election and tried to take out the Republican front-runner. (At least this attempt engendered some outrage even on the left, so there's been a clear decline).

Wanna call out Fox News, Newsmax, I'm there with ya.
I'm there with anybody on that.
 

Bamaro

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And the answer to that is government censorship and state propaganda? No, I reject this strongly enough to take up arms. The question is not about whether or not there are bad faith actors in social media (there are.) It’s about governmental limitation (which is exactly what the constitution is based on.)
Wouldn't the answer be to repeal Section 230 of the CDA?
 

TIDE-HSV

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The legacy media is still MUCH better in presenting facts compared to online and places like Fox and Newsmax who preach to their choir. Way too many people 'chose their facts' today. Fox, Newsmax etc have close to little journalistic integrity. They tell people what they want to hear, truth be dammed.
They are being more careful, after having to pay out almost a billion...
 
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selmaborntidefan

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They are being more careful, after having to pay out almost a billion...
I've said it previously, but I had no idea how far from reality Fox News had gone. Not until the night I was visiting my parents in September 2020 and had the misfortune of listening to it for one hour with my Dad. It sounded like something out of a movie script for another "Blade Runner." Look - they were ALWAYS biased right, that part is true. But at least prior to maybe the night of the 2012 election (when Rove and Morris pretended Romney could still win after the race had been called - though tbf, Megyn Kelly called them out for it), they were within a reasonable standard deviation of reality. Bill O'Reilly was both pro-gun control and pro-choice.

But I sat there that night listening to my Vietnam Vet dad side with Trump over McCain ON VIETNAM!!
I was just dumbfounded, Dad insisting McCain had given valuable information to the enemy and committed treason.

It wasn't worth the wasted effort to try and point out he was wrong. Which I've seen in way too many Trump voters (at least the Clinton Cult - except tongue bather Gene Lyons - didn't try to tell me Clinton hadn't gotten a sexual favor from Monica).
 

CrimsonJazz

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Wouldn't that make website owners responsible for their content the way regular media is responsible for theirs?
In theory, yes. However, the end result would be limiting the speech of Americans and worse, keeping the door cracked open for government interference (which is what I've been railing against.) True, it would force large platforms to completely change how they moderate content due to liability, but that same liability threat could completely shut down much smaller platforms who decide the risk isn't worth it (up to, and including, our beloved TideFans.)
 

Bamaro

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In theory, yes. However, the end result would be limiting the speech of Americans and worse, keeping the door cracked open for government interference (which is what I've been railing against.) True, it would force large platforms to completely change how they moderate content due to liability, but that same liability threat could completely shut down much smaller platforms who decide the risk isn't worth it (up to, and including, our beloved TideFans.)
Tidefans is a good example of a moderated website. Other sites should be as good, but aren't. Most are simple a free for all.
 

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