The Republican War on Public Schools (vouchers, religion, graft, testing, etc.)

[CrimsonNagus]

One thing I have never understood about school choice is what happens when everyone chooses to try and go to the "better" school (why would anyone stay at the "bad" school)? Can't let everyone in so who and how do they decide which kids get to attend?

I'm not saying I'm against school choice, I just don't understand how it really solves the problem instead of just shifting the problem to another building. I like something that @crimbru mentioned above like having schools that focus on different aspects of education. That sounds very interesting but, opening a bunch of charter schools that are going to be run like other public schools doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

One thing I have never understood about school choice is what happens when everyone chooses to try and go to the "better" school (why would anyone stay at the "bad" school)? Can't let everyone in so who and how do they decide which kids get to attend?

I'm not saying I'm against school choice, I just don't understand how it really solves the problem instead of just shifting the problem to another building. I like something that @crimbru mentioned above like having schools that focus on different aspects of education. That sounds very interesting but, opening a bunch of charter schools that are going to be run like other public schools doesn't make sense to me.

We have kids that by the 8th grade you already know they aren't going to be the "academic" type. So I have no idea why we require them to continue down an educational path that will not benefit them. And not only does it not benefit them, they become a hindrance in the classroom to those who are headed down the academic path.

There are too many kids in classroom with other kids with completely different directions when it comes to life and education. I have a son who honestly already needs to be learning a trade. He is not and will not be the academic type. My wife and I have already discussed that when he gets into his senior year of HS we're going to tell him we're not paying for him to go to college just because his friends are going. But we will pay for him to go learn a trade of some type.

 

[AWRTR]

We have kids that by the 8th grade you already know they aren't going to be the "academic" type. So I have no idea why we require them to continue down an educational path that will not benefit them. And not only does it not benefit them, they become a hindrance in the classroom to those who are headed down the academic path.

There are too many kids in classroom with other kids with completely different directions when it comes to life and education. I have a son who honestly already needs to be learning a trade. He is not and will not be the academic type. My wife and I have already discussed that when he gets into his senior year of HS we're going to tell him we're not paying for him to go to college just because his friends are going. But we will pay for him to go learn a trade of some type.

College isn't for everyone and there is great money to be made in the trades. We need electricians, plumbers, carpenters, and brick masons. They are essential. We have too many people with liberal arts degrees qualified to work at a coffee shop and not much else. Down the road he could own his own business and make money hand over fist while supplying a real need for his community and the economy.

 

[Bodhisattva]

One thing I have never understood about school choice is what happens when everyone chooses to try and go to the "better" school (why would anyone stay at the "bad" school)? Can't let everyone in so who and how do they decide which kids get to attend?

I'm not saying I'm against school choice, I just don't understand how it really solves the problem instead of just shifting the problem to another building. I like something that @crimbru mentioned above like having schools that focus on different aspects of education. That sounds very interesting but, opening a bunch of charter schools that are going to be run like other public schools doesn't make sense to me.

In the county where I live, there is some choice among the public schools. Each public high school has several "academies" that focus on a specific course of study. The ability to change schools is merit-based. If the high school you are zoned for doesn't have the course of study you want, you can try to test into one at another school in the county. Lily was zoned for Nease HS, but she wants to do anesthesiology, and the biotech (STEM classes) academy at nearby Ponte Vedra HS was a better fit for her.

List of Academies

Kids apply during the summer before 9th grade. Selection is based on academic achievement, recommendations, student essays, etc. One has to maintain high grades to stay in an academy. One of the great things is that a kid finds out in HS if they really want what they think they want, saving them time and money later on.

Many of the academies have partnerships with the private sector entities that provide funding and guest lecturers to the school and internships to the students.

Some of these academies don't necessarily lead to college and are more blue-collar based (but definitely lead to high paying careers). I've heard of kids learning how to do aircraft maintenance (for example) and getting summer internships with the sponsor companies and have a job waiting for them when they are done with high school.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

We have kids that by the 8th grade you already know they aren't going to be the "academic" type. So I have no idea why we require them to continue down an educational path that will not benefit them. And not only does it not benefit them, they become a hindrance in the classroom to those who are headed down the academic path.

There are too many kids in classroom with other kids with completely different directions when it comes to life and education. I have a son who honestly already needs to be learning a trade. He is not and will not be the academic type. My wife and I have already discussed that when he gets into his senior year of HS we're going to tell him we're not paying for him to go to college just because his friends are going. But we will pay for him to go learn a trade of some type.

My son joined the union right out of high school. He made nothing but straight A's since birth, but he didn't want to be saddled with debt of any kind and here they are doing his training at night for free (minus books and equipment) while he takes jobs. He has about 2 years left and he will have his journeyman certs. He likes working with his hands and figuring out problems in his head. As mentioned by AWRTR, the demand for his skillset will be huge and that's important because of 2 things:

1. He loves to make lots of money

2. He hates spending money. (Seriously, he's worse than Scrooge McFreaking Duck.)

His long-term plan is to put in his 25, which means he'll start drawing his pension in his mid-forties and then start his own business. I have to hand it to him, he is better at life-planning than most people his age.

 

[jthomas666]

We have kids that by the 8th grade you already know they aren't going to be the "academic" type. So I have no idea why we require them to continue down an educational path that will not benefit them. And not only does it not benefit them, they become a hindrance in the classroom to those who are headed down the academic path.

There are too many kids in classroom with other kids with completely different directions when it comes to life and education. I have a son who honestly already needs to be learning a trade. He is not and will not be the academic type. My wife and I have already discussed that when he gets into his senior year of HS we're going to tell him we're not paying for him to go to college just because his friends are going. But we will pay for him to go learn a trade of some type.

I had a lot of students in college that simply had no business being there, either because they didn't have the intellect or they didn't have the drive. And college has become too damned expensive to give kids a couple of years to "find themselves".

So yes, we absolutely need to reincorporate vocational studies in high school. My BiL owns his own welding company and is making damned good money.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

DELETED

You know nothing about me and personal attacks won't help you get there.

 

[crimbru]

One thing I have never understood about school choice is what happens when everyone chooses to try and go to the "better" school (why would anyone stay at the "bad" school)? Can't let everyone in so who and how do they decide which kids get to attend?

I'm not saying I'm against school choice, I just don't understand how it really solves the problem instead of just shifting the problem to another building. I like something that @crimbru mentioned above like having schools that focus on different aspects of education. That sounds very interesting but, opening a bunch of charter schools that are going to be run like other public schools doesn't make sense to me.

That was always the issue. When our kids were in elementary college aged kids made money camping in lines for families to get kids into various schools. They put a stop to that and it is too complicated to explain here but it was still stressful and you still had kids without schools when all was said and done. I have no idea what happens now.

Paragraph change lol Here it’s apples and oranges because of size and transportation so school choice is easier due to such factors like taking a train to another town for school or a even a bus to another town for example. Some parents chose schools near work when they worked in another area from where they lived. When the kids were small they drove them and they could use transportation when older for example.

 

[crimbru]

We have kids that by the 8th grade you already know they aren't going to be the "academic" type. So I have no idea why we require them to continue down an educational path that will not benefit them. And not only does it not benefit them, they become a hindrance in the classroom to those who are headed down the academic path.

There are too many kids in classroom with other kids with completely different directions when it comes to life and education. I have a son who honestly already needs to be learning a trade. He is not and will not be the academic type. My wife and I have already discussed that when he gets into his senior year of HS we're going to tell him we're not paying for him to go to college just because his friends are going. But we will pay for him to go learn a trade of some type.

Here some kids go to trade schools rather than typical high schools on a university track or they go to schools focused on physical education or like my daughter more practical than theoretical. Mainly you have lots to choose from with the choices and money is not an issue for higher education at the university level— just your ability to pass or not. Nothing is perfect but I prefer it. I have a friend from Texas in the Netherlands and he loves their system as well. Don’t know the system. My son left the university engineering program for a Tech engineering school because the tech program was more practical than theoretical. He did an internship at Safran his last semester before starting his masters program.

 

[AWRTR]

DELETED

Come on man, we were having a nice discussion and you have to throw this in. Can't let your tribal politics go for half a second?

 

[jthomas666]

As long as we're tweaking education, adding some basic auto repair to driver's ed would be a good idea. It's not gonna help with the computerized systems, but at least they should know how to change a tire, oil, maybe belts and brake pads.

 

[Jon]

You know nothing about me and personal attacks won't help you get there.

not a personal attack you are here day in and day out supporting Trump, what do you think he wants to do to Unions?

 

[Jon]

Come on man, we were having a nice discussion and you have to throw this in. Can't let your tribal politics go for half a second?

nothing tribal about it. My wife has similar issues with her dad who supports people that won't let her have necessary healtcare

 

[crimsonaudio]

Come on man, we were having a nice discussion and you have to throw this in. Can't let your tribal politics go for half a second?

Clearly the answer is 'no'.

 

[crimsonaudio]

@Jon - I'm letting it slide this time, but yes, that qualifies as a personal attack in my book. Don't do it again.

 

[jthomas666]

 

[Crimson1967]

We have kids that by the 8th grade you already know they aren't going to be the "academic" type. So I have no idea why we require them to continue down an educational path that will not benefit them. And not only does it not benefit them, they become a hindrance in the classroom to those who are headed down the academic path.

There are too many kids in classroom with other kids with completely different directions when it comes to life and education. I have a son who honestly already needs to be learning a trade. He is not and will not be the academic type. My wife and I have already discussed that when he gets into his senior year of HS we're going to tell him we're not paying for him to go to college just because his friends are going. But we will pay for him to go learn a trade of some type.

Not trying to tell you how to parent and I don’t know how old he is but you might want to sit him down and have that conversation with him now. If he goes through high school thinking he’s going to college with his buddies and you pull the plug at the last minute it might not sit well with him.

If he knows how he isn’t on the college path he could start down the trade school path in high school by taking classes geared towards that as he tries to find what interests him.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Not trying to tell you how to parent and I don’t know how old he is but you might want to sit him down and have that conversation with him now. If he goes through high school thinking he’s going to college with his buddies and you pull the plug at the last minute it might not sit well with him.

If he knows how he isn’t on the college path he could start down the trade school path in high school by taking classes geared towards that as he tries to find what interests him.

He knows, LOL! We started having those discussions last school year.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

College isn't for everybody. There have been some major articles in recent WSJs on the money skilled trades can make -- HVAC and plumbing especially. Carpenters can too, but that's largely dependent on construction, the demand for which is a bit more up-and-down than either plumbing or HVAC.

Electricians who specialize in tech wiring and wireless systems for IT are killing it.

And all of those guys incurred little to no student debt getting trained to do the jobs.

I don't know the numbers, but I'm deadly curious as to how much student debt is owed by people who never graduated. And more subjectively, how many of those shouldn't have been in college in the first place.

 

[AWRTR]

College isn't for everybody. There have been some major articles in recent WSJs on the money skilled trades can make -- HVAC and plumbing especially. Carpenters can too, but that's largely dependent on construction, the demand for which is a bit more up-and-down than either plumbing or HVAC.

Electricians who specialize in tech wiring and wireless systems for IT are killing it. And those guys have little to no student debt.

I don't know the numbers, but I'm deadly curious as to how much student debt is owed by people who never graduated. And more subjectively, how many of those shouldn't have been in college in the first place.

I know a young man I used to go to church with that got into HVAC work. He was a sharp kid. Got a job and did the training at night while working as an assistant for a local HVAC company. He got paid on-the-job training while getting his formal certification. He later moved to a larger city and is killing it as a supervisor for a large HVAC company. He has no student loan debt and the sky is the limit for him. This line of work is in high demand in South Florida. No one is going without AC down here.