Tua's Injury

KrAzY3

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I’m 100% right on this. If you want to argue that Alabama should have gone the cheap route with Tua, go ahead.
You're 100% wrong and I already illustrated why. You don't know what you're talking about, and you're pointing fingers at people whose hands were tied. Alabama is not allowed to pay for LOV policies out of their regular funds! Now I will explain this further, but it's sad when I see Alabama fans becoming the ones that are misinformed and are spreading negative information about Alabama. It's one thing to say bad things and be right about it, but if you are going to throw stones make sure you know what you're talking about at least. Now, we already know the fund is limited and that Alabama already allocated nearly 70%. But, but some other teams got both for their star players!

Well, other schools don't have Alabama player's projections in the draft. A quick look at a random mock draft showed 5 Alabama players in the first round. The next closest school came in at 3. That's a massive difference! The most expensive policies are going to be for first rounders, so Alabama right there has to pay way more than any other school on the policies they already took out (remember when they purchased the policy they do have on Tua he was probably at a #1 overall pick rate)! On top of that they had 11 other policies! So, even if Alabama decided ok we're just going to get LOV for first round projected picks, that's LOV insurance for 5 guys and the money isn't there! It's just not there, that's all there is to it.

So you can claim being unable to do something within NCAA rules is just being cheap, but no... you're wrong.
 
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B1GTide

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Krazy - Can you find something that describes NCAA limits on this fund? I looked and can't find a limit. I can find the usage guidelines, but nothing that limits the amount of money that a particular school can spend on this fund.

Also, above you said that Alabama is not allowed to spend this money on a LOV policy. Why is that the case if other schools are allowed to do that? Is that a school or conference rule?
 

KrAzY3

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kraizy.art
Krazy - Can you find something that describes NCAA limits on this fund? I looked and can't find a limit. I can find the usage guidelines, but nothing that limits the amount of money that a particular school can spend on this fund.

Also, above you said that Alabama is not allowed to spend this money on a LOV policy. Why is that the case if other schools are allowed to do that? Is that a school or conference rule?
There might be a slight misunderstanding here, so I'll try to explain the specifics of what the money is and why it's different from other funds. I will give one link so you can see where I'm getting the numbers from, but otherwise I think I can explain it adequately. http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

First off, there's the general athletic department funding right? That has to be Title IX complaint, and has restrictions as well, but for instance the school can in theory spend unlimited amounts on locker rooms, food (that was restricted in the past) and that sort of thing. What they can't do is allocate those funds for certain things that are of benefit to players. They can pay for health insurance, they can't pay for LOV out of general funds.

In this case there are two different types of insurance plans we're discussing. One is the LOV that Alabama didn't have, another is a total disability insurance which Alabama did have. Neither of those can come from general funds, that would be a NCAA violation. They are, however allowed to come from the Student Assistance Fund.

Here's the important thing to understand. The Student Assistance Fund isn't regular funds at all, and the only way being cheap would come into the equation is if Alabama spent those resources on things of benefit to the program but not the players. That's a distribution from NCAA revenue. The key though is Alabama doesn't choose how much money is in there. To give an example, and I'm not an expert, but I have read about it, we're talking about 82 million to 353 different NCAA schools. You'll note that comes out to be really close to that 240K number I cited from memory.

So, what do I mean when I say Alabama can't afford LOV but another school could? That's simply because of the situation Alabama is in. I gave the example of 5 Alabama projected first round picks vs. 3, so let's run with that to illustrate the point a little more. Alabama is locking in their total disability insurance at a point in which Tua is projected as the #1 pick. So his is the most expensive policy in all of college football. Then they have to get it for the other 4 guys, right? Well, even if one of the other schools with 3 guys decides to get both policies, they're tapping a similar total amount from the fund as Alabama! And mind you, Alabama still has those 11 other guys to get disability insurance for.

I look up numbers regularly, I like understanding what's going on and in this case Alabama is hampered by their abundance of high draft prospects. Their insurance costs more, but Alabama's fund isn't allowed to be bigger than any other Power 5 school. I could be a little fuzzy on some of these details, but the general picture is accurate.

This is a scenario where it would be nice if they was more to be done to provide these types of insurance for players, even in Alabama's situation where they have a lot of them. That's why I brought this up quite a while ago, it's something I'd like to be automatic for these guys.
 
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B1GTide

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Thanks, but an article on AL.com indicates that this was a decision made for other reasons. Good reasons, but not the ones that you describe.

Either way, I like Byrne's explanation:

“If you have loss of value, you still have the opportunity to have a successful professional career,” Byrne told The Action Network. “One of the reasons we go with permanent total disability is to protect the student-athletes should they not be able to play again, in which case they have no ability to make any future earnings through their sport professionally. In the event of injury, we utilize our resources through health care and rehab to help them increase their draft value.
So, even though Alabama did not buy Tua this policy, they did so with the understanding and agreement of his family, and then they made good by Tua by paying for him to receive the absolute best care available in the world for his injury.

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/...aft-insurance-situation-after-hip-injury.html
 

Evil Crimson Dragon

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Despite the loss of money because of the injury, he will still make quite a few dollars over the course of his career, and with the news that his recovery will probably go alot better, I assume he will still do well with his contract, even if he has to sit out a little while
 

KrAzY3

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Thanks, but an article on AL.com indicates that this was a decision made for other reasons. Good reasons, but not the ones that you describe.
I can only go by the numbers, to demonstrate Alabama had a choice to make, but it wasn't one in which they had everything on the table. I wouldn't want to say Alabama could not afford LOV insurance for Tua under any scenario. I think in one post I said the could, but went on to say but not for Jeudy, Ruggs, etc...

This quote is a big part of that article: "though schools have been allowed to pay the premiums through the NCAA’s Student Athlete Assistance Fund." I've already explained where that money comes from and that it's finite. The school is allowed to pay through that fund, but not from their general funds.

So, to be clear I'm not saying Alabama couldn't buy both for Tua. I remember the ballpark of the Winston number when he was the #1 projected pick, but Alabama probably could have afforded both for Tua. It's just that they couldn't afford both for everyone else. They could possibly say alright, let's buy both for the first rounders, then the 11 other guys get no insurance. Or they say Tua gets both, but we'll drop a few other guys, etc... There's just no way to make the fund stretch as far as it would need to, to get both insurance for all those guys.

The other choice is Alabama could have chosen LOV over the insurance they did go with, and that's what Byrne seems to be describing. There are a lot of choices there, but I want to emphasize the fact that the fund is a finite amount, and no indication at all is that Alabama was being "cheap". I don't see a better way to do this, with the NCAA restrictions in place.

So what I see from Byrne is an explanation of why he chose the policy he did choose. I'm just stating definitively, he did not have unlimited resources. In fact, use of the Student fund for this is kind of a loophole, the first time I saw anything about it being used that way was Winston actually. It's within the rules, but for quite some time it wasn't even normal use, which is why in 2011 Ohio State was using it for parking and health insurance, I'm not sure they even considered the possibility of using it back then for LOV or it was even clear that the NCAA would allow it back then.

To reiterate, this is an area the NCAA can get better in, and I hope they do. Byrne shouldn't have to make these sort of choices. Just to give broader context, Alabama's athletic department spends nearly double the entire NCAA Student fund (for 353 schools) every year on their program. There's no question they'd spend more on these athletes and insurance if allowed. It would be helpful to recruiting if they could, and that's one of the big reasons they aren't allowed.

Edit: I just want to bring this quote back because I hope now the context is clearer.
"The money Alabama spends on those premiums took up 68% of the school’s allocation of its Student Assistance Fund this year."
This is not just a matter of Alabama only has 32% of the fund left after all uses of the fund, this was only 32% left after they bought insurance alone! That means they spent over two thirds of the entire fund on just insurance.

And then this part, which I might have neglected to post earlier but it as definitive as can be on the issue:
"The NCAA stipulates that the only way schools can pay for insurance premiums for players is through this fund,"
I'm sorry if my rhetoric accidentally masked the most important parts...
 
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CajunCrimson

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A deeper explanation of the "loss of value" policy.....

Interesting discussion regarding whether Tua comes back or not. Slipping from 4th to 9th in the draft is work $23M??? Wow.....
 

Bubbaloo

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A deeper explanation of the "loss of value" policy.....

Interesting discussion regarding whether Tua comes back or not. Slipping from 4th to 9th in the draft is work $23M??? Wow.....
He said droping from 4th to 11th draft position was 13M difference and from 4th to 9th draft position was a 23M difference. I assume those two differences are reversed or the whole quote is off the rails.....
 

BamaInMo1

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Quote:
I’m 100% right on this. If you want to argue that Alabama should have gone the cheap route with Tua, go ahead.

Sure you are, Coach Jeff. You're right on everything so just pick up your toys, go home and be happy...…………………...
 

Con

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Yea he may lose millions of dollars but he may actually have a longer career if he falls to team that isn't so desperate for a savior.

After looking at what B1GTide posted I just can't feel sorry for anybody making $15 million. $15 million or $35 million, that is still a lot of money. I wouldn't make that in several lifetimes.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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It's hard to believe that it would pay for him to come back to reestablish value. OTOH, there's the hand, both ankles and now a freak hip injury. I'll still continue to defend him against the "fragile" label. It's not accurate. However a case can be made that he keeps making decisions which place him in the way of harm. You can see how some GMs might just not want to take a chance. Jeez, what a choice...
 

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