What does standing for the anthem and flag mean?

[RollTide_HTTR]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

The caller that provoked the answer wanted Saban to throw Mark Ingram under the bus. As I expected, Saban was not willing to do that. He clearly understands the kneeling is not about hating the country, as has been suggested on this board.

I mean of course. But, at the same time that statement is clearly trying not to offend anyone if possible. I'm not hating on him for that just saying that he is very good with these type of comments. He states his opinion without actually giving too much away.

 

[GrayTide]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

As a veteran and in my younger days this type behavior would have really bothered me. As I have gotten older my position on political and social issues have changed dramatically. Your patriotic beliefs, like your religious beliefs are personal to you and only you, what some else believes should be of no concern to you. If a person takes a stand then that is on him/her for good or bad. I will stand for the National Anthem, which is my belief not because the clown in the WH wants everyone to stand. As for the protesters they do so at their own risk, I simply do not care.

 

[willie52]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

How many people sit if a well respected person of position walks into the room? It is customary (that word again) to stand to show respect, how is standing for the anthem and flag any different? Do you not respect those or do you have different levels to your respect for something. To me the anthem not only signifies the struggles of those who fought to create this country but what those stars and stripes meant to them. It may be just me but the flag represents the lives of those that have fallen as well as those that still fight to protect a most sacred document, the Constitution. My personal opinion it also represents the hopes and dreams of not only citizens but those who aspire to become one. By kneeling in your silent protest then there is a certain amount of disrespect not only to the fallen soldiers but to all Americans. I think sometimes we all need reminding that there is something intangible that binds this country together (not counting current climate) especially in times of need, look at the efforts by all people after the hurricanes.

I can absolutely respect peoples right to express themselves, I spent 22 years in the Air Force for it but there is a time and a place for everything. If there is something sorely lacking today it is respect, not only for our country but for those around us. I may be narrow minded, ignorant redneck (since I'm from Alabama) or whatever some of you on your lofty perches think but I'd put the uniform on again if threatened and be there in front of you.

 

[Tide1986]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Like it or not, the Pledge of Allegiance began and always has been about indoctrination and conformity. If not, why do those who ardently support it believe we should all do it? In unison?

I think if most people knew of the origins they would have different reactions than they presently do. Of course, many would not care.

My allegiance is not to a flag. It is to ideals and principles.

For that reason I have few problems with a respectful protest while the nation's anthem is played.

What does standing mean? Does it signify respect for the flag?

Sure. It can mean that to some.

Deeper down at the root though it means "getting with the program". Indoctrination and conformity.

Doesn't mean someone can't have strong feelings about it. Or that they don't believe every words they say.

But you can do that in private in your closet right after you pray there. (Matthew 6:6)

But it's done in public for very specific reasons and the meaning may vary from person to person.

One may be a true blue believer.

Another may wish to be respectful.

Yet another may wish to avoid scorn.

Yet, the undermine purpose remains.

Ditto for standing, hand over heart, for the National Anthem.

And I can get something in my eye every now and again when I hear it.

But the people and ideals of this country are more important to me than the flag, pledge, or anthem.

Nice post. I almost posted "indoctrination and conformance" but decided not to be quite so cynical today.

The idealist in me says that standing is not so much about showing respect for the flag, the anthem, or even one's country or its ideals but more so about a moment of respect for one's fellow citizens and community. It's a moment of unity in some way.

Anyway, that's enough feeling for one day.

 

[Tide1986]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

The caller that provoked the answer wanted Saban to throw Mark Ingram under the bus. As I expected, Saban was not willing to do that. He clearly understands the kneeling is not about hating the country, as has been suggested on this board.

How should one interpret this holy text for kneeling at NFL games: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

As a note, I believe TW has posted this previously.

 

[Jon]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Pretty easy to Trigger these guys isn't it

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/peopl...layers-burning?utm_term=.njKx42q49#.uslXj0VjZ

 

[92tide]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

How should one interpret this holy text for kneeling at NFL games: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

As a note, I believe TW has posted this previously.

why would you automatically consider criticism of the country hatred of the country?

 

[92tide]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Pretty easy to Trigger these guys isn't it

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/peopl...layers-burning?utm_term=.njKx42q49#.uslXj0VjZ

they are very sensitive and fragile souls

 

[dvldog]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

But the people and ideals of this country are more important to me than the flag, pledge, or anthem

People and ideals, concur. Individuals, non-concur. Here we have "individuals" promoting their own agenda which goes against the "people and ideals" of the country. They will lose.

 

[92tide]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

People and ideals, concur. Individuals, non-concur. Here we have "individuals" promoting their own agenda which goes against the "people and ideals" of the country. They will lose.

which individuals would those be? because i see the ones telling kaepernick and the other nfl'ers how they should exercise their rights as the ones going against the people and ideals of this country

 

[92tide]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

How should one interpret this holy text for kneeling at NFL games: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

As a note, I believe TW has posted this previously.

and this was also posted previously about what happened after the holy text you have provided.

link to reid op-ed

After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.

 

[Crimson1967]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Pretty easy to Trigger these guys isn't it

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/peopl...layers-burning?utm_term=.njKx42q49#.uslXj0VjZ

Sadly, there are a number of people who would believe that picture is real.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chukker Veteran]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

why would you automatically consider criticism of the country hatred of the country?

Once Trump got elected despite spitting on McCain's service and the Gold Star family, some conservatives realize they don't have the exclusive claim of patriotism they once thought they had, and it has many of them scrambling to catch up.

Kid Rock cuts a hole in a flag and wears it, no problerm, but not kneeling is disrespect. And on and on...

 

[NationalTitles18]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

People and ideals, concur. Individuals, non-concur. Here we have "individuals" promoting their own agenda which goes against the "people and ideals" of the country. They will lose.

Individuals are people. As Ronald Reagan was so fond of saying (and I can't quickly find the exact quote), there is no "mass" or "masses" in America - there are millions of individuals contributing their part in their own way and that is what makes America great.

I fail to see how taking a knee to protest perceived injustice goes against either the people or the ideals of this country.

Define "lose". Lose what? Money? Fame?

Or lose in advancing "justice for ALL"?

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

How many people sit if a well respected person of position walks into the room? It is customary (that word again) to stand to show respect, how is standing for the anthem and flag any different? Do you not respect those or do you have different levels to your respect for something. To me the anthem not only signifies the struggles of those who fought to create this country but what those stars and stripes meant to them. It may be just me but the flag represents the lives of those that have fallen as well as those that still fight to protect a most sacred document, the Constitution. My personal opinion it also represents the hopes and dreams of not only citizens but those who aspire to become one. By kneeling in your silent protest then there is a certain amount of disrespect not only to the fallen soldiers but to all Americans. I think sometimes we all need reminding that there is something intangible that binds this country together (not counting current climate) especially in times of need, look at the efforts by all people after the hurricanes.

I can absolutely respect peoples right to express themselves, I spent 22 years in the Air Force for it but there is a time and a place for everything. If there is something sorely lacking today it is respect, not only for our country but for those around us. I may be narrow minded, ignorant redneck (since I'm from Alabama) or whatever some of you on your lofty perches think but I'd put the uniform on again if threatened and be there in front of you.

Well, I can't speak for the players but I honestly had no idea people felt this way about the flag or anthem to before this happened. I knew some felt more strongly about them than I do but I had no idea it was on such a deep and personal level that it clearly seems to be. Instead I have always seen the flag and anthem as symbols for the USA in general and not specific to any one aspect of it. To be completely honest it is still really hard for me to comprehend why people are taking this so personally.

To take your analogy further would you stand up and shake someones hand if you felt that person was abusing you and your family and has a long history of that abuse?

 

[NationalTitles18]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

How many people sit if a well respected person of position walks into the room? It is customary (that word again) to stand to show respect, how is standing for the anthem and flag any different? Do you not respect those or do you have different levels to your respect for something. To me the anthem not only signifies the struggles of those who fought to create this country but what those stars and stripes meant to them. It may be just me but the flag represents the lives of those that have fallen as well as those that still fight to protect a most sacred document, the Constitution. My personal opinion it also represents the hopes and dreams of not only citizens but those who aspire to become one. By kneeling in your silent protest then there is a certain amount of disrespect not only to the fallen soldiers but to all Americans. I think sometimes we all need reminding that there is something intangible that binds this country together (not counting current climate) especially in times of need, look at the efforts by all people after the hurricanes.

I can absolutely respect peoples right to express themselves, I spent 22 years in the Air Force for it but there is a time and a place for everything. If there is something sorely lacking today it is respect, not only for our country but for those around us. I may be narrow minded, ignorant redneck (since I'm from Alabama) or whatever some of you on your lofty perches think but I'd put the uniform on again if threatened and be there in front of you.

Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you for your willingness to put your life on the line again for us all.

This is not unique to you or even to people who hold your position, but there seems to be a lot of talking past one another and very little of trying to listen. It's like Crossfire (CNN show from way back) everywhere I go.

There is a segment of people in this country which has very real pain and fear and another segment that doesn't understand and doesn't seem to want to understand and has been unwilling to listen. Both sides get defensive and talk over each other and then the whole thing devolves into a screaming match. If Geraldo is there maybe someone throws a chair or gets a broken nose.

In the end no one learns a damned thing and hearts and heads just get harder and thicker.

Again, your post was a jumping off point, not the impetus for everything said.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Pretty easy to Trigger these guys isn't it

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/peopl...layers-burning?utm_term=.njKx42q49#.uslXj0VjZ

The pathetic thing is that's prolly garbage from Russia. Or maybe a homegrown alt-righter, it's hard to tell them apart these days.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

I posted this on a different thread but I figured I'd say it here too.

You can probably simplify this whole debate down to "Is the issue being protested important enough for the method of protest?" I think that is were the hang up in this whole discussion is. Those who support the protest think the issue being protested is more important than standing for the anthem. While those who are against the protest think the anthem is too important to use as a means of protest or that the reason for the protest isn't important enough. I don't know if those 2 viewpoints can be easily reconciled especially in an environment of so much polarization.

 

[willie52]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Well, I can't speak for the players but I honestly had no idea people felt this way about the flag or anthem to before this happened. I knew some felt more strongly about them than I do but I had no idea it was on such a deep and personal level that it clearly seems to be. Instead I have always seen the flag and anthem as symbols for the USA in general and not specific to any one aspect of it. To be completely honest it is still really hard for me to comprehend why people are taking this so personally.

To take your analogy further would you stand up and shake someones hand if you felt that person was abusing you and your family and has a long history of that abuse?

Excellent question. No I wouldn't but I also wouldn't sit and protest the fact that they were doing it. As in this protest movement, it's not getting to the source of the problem to fix it, just the opposite, it's polarizing people so the actual reason for it has been lost and it will never be fixed by using these tactics. You can't take angry people from two different sides and try and fix it. There is always a better way and one person's opinion does not make it a fact. There are always two sides to a story, can they listen to the other side is the question meaning because the players say it isn't disrespecting the flag does not mean it isn't and vice versa.

I can understand the kneeling, I've done it at enough graves but that to me became an afterthought to justify it. My father, brother, uncles, wife and son have all served in the military. I love this country and it has become a cesspool of self serving individuals and disrespect. I'm not the robot some seem to think military people are, I was taught to think for myself even by the military. Although some don't think this way, most who have served probably do, they just don't talk about it except with others they share a bond with.

 

[willie52]

Re: What does standing for the antehem and flag mean?

Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you for your willingness to put your life on the line again for us all.

This is not unique to you or even to people who hold your position, but there seems to be a lot of talking past one another and very little of trying to listen. It's like Crossfire (CNN show from way back) everywhere I go.

There is a segment of people in this country which has very real pain and fear and another segment that doesn't understand and doesn't seem to want to understand and has been unwilling to listen. Both sides get defensive and talk over each other and then the whole thing devolves into a screaming match. If Geraldo is there maybe someone throws a chair or gets a broken nose.

In the end no one learns a damned thing and hearts and heads just get harder and thicker.

Again, your post was a jumping off point, not the impetus for everything said.

I can agree with that.