Question: Whitehouse visit

[Crimson1967]

Trump hasn't respected the office since he's been there, and wasn't respecting the previous holders of it before that. As I said, when he starts showing some respect for the office I'll give it a shot. Not sure why I should have to continue to respect it when the person holding it doesn't respect it. The closest he came was claiming "I'm going to be so presidential you people will be so bored." I'm still waiting for that follow through.

Trump’s presidency has been a lot of things, but boring isn’t one of them.


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[MattinBama]

Trump’s presidency has been a lot of things, but boring isn’t one of them.

It's definitely been a long 20 years so far.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

It's definitely been a long 20 years so far.

Gonna get longer when the principled nominators put up a radical leftist in 2020 and he wins again.

(I don’t type that with anything but resignation).

 

[UAH]

Gonna get longer when the principled nominators put up a radical leftist in 2020 and he wins again.

(I don’t type that with anything but resignation).

Isn't that the truth. They have an opportunity to win back middle America but will continue to be characterized by trying to appeal to every minority interest.

I continue to be nostalgic for Mitt Romney who IMO would have struck a very positive tone domestically and internationally.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Isn't that the truth. They have an opportunity to win back middle America but will continue to be characterized by trying to appeal to every minority interest.

I continue to be nostalgic for Mitt Romney who IMO would have struck a very positive tone domestically and internationally.

I would welcome him back with open arms. Hell, I wouldn't even care if he put me in a cage and sprayed me with a garden hose...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Gonna get longer when the principled nominators put up a radical leftist in 2020 and he wins again.

(I don’t type that with anything but resignation).

That is a likely forecast...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I would welcome him back with open arms. Hell, I wouldn't even care if he put me in a cage and sprayed me with a garden hose...

Maybe he'd show you his "binder full of women", but only after he put you in a cage and sprayed you with a garden hose.

 

[GrayTide]

Gonna get longer when the principled nominators put up a radical leftist in 2020 and he wins again.

(I don’t type that with anything but resignation).

Bill, I hope you are wrong, but my gut tells me this is exactly what is going to happen. It is not possible to win the hearts and minds of Trump supporters because they have no conscience. Without a conscience anything he does or says is what they believe MAGA.

 

[Crimson1967]

The Trump voters switching in the PA House race gives me hope a moderate Democrat could win. Hillary isn’t that much of a lefty, but her being such a toxic candidate doomed her chances.

It is going to come down to a half-dozen or so states anyway. Most of us here don’t live in one of them.


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[selmaborntidefan]

Isn't that the truth. They have an opportunity to win back middle America but will continue to be characterized by trying to appeal to every minority interest.

I continue to be nostalgic for Mitt Romney who IMO would have struck a very positive tone domestically and internationally.

I happen to think that Mitt Romney - who I admittedly didn't and don't care for - could probably be a VERY good President because he really isn't beholden to any ideology. He's at best center right, and I think that (like Al Gore) he so tried to bend himself into a configuration where he would fall right at just above 50% in every group he thought he could conceivably take. As a result, he convinced nobody that he had any core beliefs other than he wanted to be President, which isn't a bad thing but isn't going to persuade anyone. Obama BEGAN with a base.

Reagan had a base.
Clinton had a shifting base (he won in large part because Dole didn't have a base).
Bush 43 had a base.
Obama had a base.
Trump has a base.

Carter and Bush 41 didn't, not anything substantial.

Funny thing is that both Gore's concession speech and the one time I've seen Romney active other than the 2016 campaign and both actually came across as loose and rather Presidential. Both ran campaigns suffering from performance anxiety.

But I've watched the Democrats blow these easy layups too many times.

 

[Crimson1967]

If they go with the attitude anybody could beat Trump, they’ll nominate someone that makes Bernie Sanders look like Pat Buchanan and they’ll be left wondering how they lost again.


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[Relayer]

Bill, I hope you are wrong, but my gut tells me this is exactly what is going to happen. It is not possible to win the hearts and minds of Trump supporters because they have no conscience. Without a conscience anything he does or says is what they believe MAGA.

The Dems will have their opportunity, but if they put up another pair similar to Hillary and Sanders (or probably worse), they will still have tough sledding.

 

[UAH]

I happen to think that Mitt Romney - who I admittedly didn't and don't care for - could probably be a VERY good President because he really isn't beholden to any ideology. He's at best center right, and I think that (like Al Gore) he so tried to bend himself into a configuration where he would fall right at just above 50% in every group he thought he could conceivably take. As a result, he convinced nobody that he had any core beliefs other than he wanted to be President, which isn't a bad thing but isn't going to persuade anyone. Obama BEGAN with a base.

Reagan had a base.
Clinton had a shifting base (he won in large part because Dole didn't have a base).
Bush 43 had a base.
Obama had a base.
Trump has a base.

Carter and Bush 41 didn't, not anything substantial.

Funny thing is that both Gore's concession speech and the one time I've seen Romney active other than the 2016 campaign and both actually came across as loose and rather Presidential. Both ran campaigns suffering from performance anxiety.

But I've watched the Democrats blow these easy layups too many times.

I always appreciate the thoroughness of your thought process. We can certainly agree that both Gore and Romney and Hillary for that matter lacked the easy amiability of Obama or Bill Clinton.

My comment was made from a relative standpoint of having a President in Romney who could represent a large majority of Americans versus the basically failed second term of Obama who proved to be a perfect foil for Fox News resulting the absurdity we live with today.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I always appreciate the thoroughness of your thought process. We can certainly agree that both Gore and Romney and Hillary for that matter lacked the easy amiability of Obama or Bill Clinton.

My comment was made from a relative standpoint of having a President in Romney who could represent a large majority of Americans versus the basically failed second term of Obama who proved to be a perfect foil for Fox News resulting the absurdity we live with today.

I think a major part of the problem is that "moderates" (be they D or R) don't really have core convictions of where government should go or what it should do. Conservatives and liberals DO (whatever we think of either one). Problem is that about 2/5 of the electorate is stuff like "fiscal conservative/social liberal" or sometimes vice versa.

Wanna know who wins a Presidential debate? Turn down the sound and watch. That's almost always an accurate barometer. My ex-MIL was no liberal but she pointed out that when you just look at Obama and Romney next to each other, one looks like he's trying to hard and somewhat crooked and the other one is charismatic and laid back.

But I remember a comment from Dick Morris's book that came out after Clinton won the second time but before the Lewinsky scandal broke. Morris pointed out to Clinton that he needed to find common ground with Trent Lott (who Morris had also worked with) and Newt Gingrich. He pointed out that "moderates" like Bob Dole don't really have any core convictions, they're just in government to get a paycheck. He pointed out that while ideologically they were far apart, they are CLOSE in ultimate goal, which is how we wound up with the temporary surplus and passing everything (Lott cut a deal with Clinton where he told the Prez that he didn't have the votes for a minimum wage increase one year but that Lott not only would put it in the NEXT budget, he'd make sure it passed).

Clinton benefited from Bush 41 never really having a base other than the wealthiest 1%. As William Buckley observed, "Four years of Carter gave us Reagan Democrats; four years of Bush gave us Clinton Republicans."

 

[GrayTide]

The more I read on here, the more I realize I am obviously no longer in touch with politics in this country. As a young voter I leaned toward center/right because in those days the Democrat party was a hodgepodge conglomerate of liberal socialists, anti-war activists, and civil rights supportive groups. At that time I was on active duty in the Navy and quite frankly resented all of these groups, Ted Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey and other left leaning Democrats. Keep in mind, my generational upbringing in small town Alabama greatly influenced my social and political beliefs.

Over the ensuing years I prided myself in voting for the candidate that reflected what I believed in and what I thought was best for America. My voting record was not party affiliated; I have voted for candidates of both parties and even if my candidate lost I was able to (sometimes grudgingly) accept the new POTUS. I will admit I have gradually moved from center/right to center/left FWIW. I realize no candidate can check all of my boxes, but I was willing to give each the benefit of the doubt, that is until this past election.

Each POTUS in my lifetime has had his faults and shortcomings, but I never believed any of them were narcissistic, sociopaths whose only reason for wanting to be POTUS was to satisfy his desire to be have uncontested power over the American people while lining the pockets of he and his family. IOW, until Trump I never believed any POTUS was a narcissistic, sociopathic, crook. It now appears that this is what a many Americans want in the WH. Sorry for stating the obvious. Rant over.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I think a major part of the problem is that "moderates" (be they D or R) don't really have core convictions of where government should go or what it should do. Conservatives and liberals DO (whatever we think of either one). Problem is that about 2/5 of the electorate is stuff like "fiscal conservative/social liberal" or sometimes vice versa.

Wanna know who wins a Presidential debate? Turn down the sound and watch. That's almost always an accurate barometer. My ex-MIL was no liberal but she pointed out that when you just look at Obama and Romney next to each other, one looks like he's trying to hard and somewhat crooked and the other one is charismatic and laid back.

But I remember a comment from Dick Morris's book that came out after Clinton won the second time but before the Lewinsky scandal broke. Morris pointed out to Clinton that he needed to find common ground with Trent Lott (who Morris had also worked with) and Newt Gingrich. He pointed out that "moderates" like Bob Dole don't really have any core convictions, they're just in government to get a paycheck. He pointed out that while ideologically they were far apart, they are CLOSE in ultimate goal, which is how we wound up with the temporary surplus and passing everything (Lott cut a deal with Clinton where he told the Prez that he didn't have the votes for a minimum wage increase one year but that Lott not only would put it in the NEXT budget, he'd make sure it passed).

Clinton benefited from Bush 41 never really having a base other than the wealthiest 1%. As William Buckley observed, "Four years of Carter gave us Reagan Democrats; four years of Bush gave us Clinton Republicans."

If what you're saying is that only the far right and the far left have real political convictions, I disagree heartily...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The more I read on here, the more I realize I am obviously no longer in touch with politics in this country. As a young voter I leaned toward center/right because in those days the Democrat party was a hodgepodge conglomerate of liberal socialists, anti-war activists, and civil rights supportive groups. At that time I was on active duty in the Navy and quite frankly resented all of these groups, Ted Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey and other left leaning Democrats. Keep in mind, my generational upbringing in small town Alabama greatly influenced my social and political beliefs.

Over the ensuing years I prided myself in voting for the candidate that reflected what I believed in and what I thought was best for America. My voting record was not party affiliated; I have voted for candidates of both parties and even if my candidate lost I was able to (sometimes grudgingly) accept the new POTUS. I will admit I have gradually moved from center/right to center/left FWIW. I realize no candidate can check all of my boxes, but I was willing to give each the benefit of the doubt, that is until this past election.

Each POTUS in my lifetime has had his faults and shortcomings, but I never believed any of them were narcissistic, sociopaths whose only reason for wanting to be POTUS was to satisfy his desire to be have uncontested power over the American people while lining the pockets of he and his family. IOW, until Trump I never believed any POTUS was a narcissistic, sociopathic, crook. It now appears that this is what a many Americans want in the WH. Sorry for stating the obvious. Rant over.

And they justify having a known crook in the white house on religious grounds. My SIL, retired from the Billy Graham organization, makes me gag...

 

[81usaf92]

If Warren or Sanders are the nominees then Trump beats them worse than h did Hillary because I guarantee the NE and MW states will take the crazy they know over the one they don’t.

I have this itching feeling that if the democrats don’t put someone up that has a platform that isn’t “ I’m just different than trump” then I believe the only things standing in a trump reelection is 1) impeachment 2) him not running and 3) the republican primaries dumping him.

 

[GrayTide]

A lot can happen between now and the 2020 elections. Trump's strategy of dividing America along party lines, social and economic differences while creating internal conflict and indecision is a sure fire formula for his re-election. Until congress can find the intestinal fortitude to come together in a bipartisan coalition to force him out this country is in deep do do.

 

[uafanataum]

If Warren or Sanders are the nominees then Trump beats them worse than h did Hillary because I guarantee the NE and MW states will take the crazy they know over the one they don’t.

I have this itching feeling that if the democrats don’t put someone up that has a platform that isn’t “ I’m just different than trump” then I believe the only things standing in a trump reelection is 1) impeachment 2) him not running and 3) the republican primaries dumping him.

I'm hoping the GOP does not wait until the primaries to dump him.