News Article: Bama penalties mostly fair, but this can’t keep happening

[JessN]

Bama penalties mostly fair, but this can’t keep happening
By Jess Nicholas
TideFans.com Editor-in-Chief
June 12, 2009

As Alabama figures out just how many victories will be “vacated” – which could include, I suppose, the Tide’s iconic 6-3 win over Tennessee in 2005 that cemented Roman Harper’s star value – most fans are looking at today’s round of penalties and probably thinking, “no big deal.”

And that would be a grave mistake.

For the full story, click here: http://www.tidefans.com/forums/tide...ies-mostly-fair-but-can-t-keep-happening.html

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

Bama penalties mostly fair, but this can’t keep happening
By Jess Nicholas
TideFans.com Editor-in-Chief
June 12, 2009

As Alabama figures out just how many victories will be “vacated” – which could include, I suppose, the Tide’s iconic 6-3 win over Tennessee in 2005 that cemented Roman Harper’s star value – most fans are looking at today’s round of penalties and probably thinking, “no big deal.”

And that would be a grave mistake.

For the full story, click here: http://www.tidefans.com/forums/tide...ies-mostly-fair-but-can-t-keep-happening.html

On the drive home yesterday, our school's name blared back at me, first on ESPN and then Sporting News Radio. I picked up the paper this morning and there we were again. Five recurring words: probation, major violation, Alabama, again.

I'm embarrassed, mostly for our school. But I'm angry, too. For all the complaints about selective enforcement, enough's enough.

So maybe the NCAA is watching. So what?

By now, we, more than other university in America, must understand this all boils down to a simple choice: Follow the rules and let nature take its course (i.e. Alabama will be great) or break them, risk being caught, and risk being thrown back into a prison cell of mediocrity. At this point, a life sentence is not out of the question.

Meanwhile, we continue to feed the nation's worst stereotypes. Again, no school in the country, should have a deeper understanding -- and repulsion -- of how that feels.

Your message is a clear one, Jess. I hope that after another trip to the podium to frown and look concerned, school leaders already are acting on it.

 

[chris]

Thanks to you and Cecil Hurt for very thorough followups.

 

[buzzincuzzin]

Need a job? Here's 1000 teenagers. Make sure none of them make a single mistake for at least three years. With those kind of organizational skills and attention to detail,, I hope a future Governor comes from this mission.

 

[trenda]

Some house cleaning is in order. Period. No need in debating who, what, when, why, or where. Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do, even if it hurts someone you love.

 

[MidnightRambler]

Need a job? Here's 1000 teenagers. Make sure none of them make a single mistake for at least three years. With those kind of organizational skills and attention to detail,, I hope a future Governor comes from this mission.

Looks like more than "a single mistake" was made.

 

[2003TIDE]

Looks like more than "a single mistake" was made.

Yeah and some of those "mistakes" were intentional. Maybe bone headed decisions, but definitely not mistakes.

 

[buzzincuzzin]

For the next three years it will only take ONE.

 

[Ldlane]

For the next three years it will only take ONE.

It can be done, but it will take someone that knows that they are accountable and should "be in the know" about everything that is happening. Those textbooks can be traced and are "registered" at the time they are dispersed. It will also take athletes with the "character" and love for their team that they won't do anything stupid like what happened.

 

[crimsonbleeder]

There's something about this whole affair that keeps nagging me. It just doesn't seem right...

These infractions were so minor, and I know for an absolute fact that they occur EVERYWHERE...EVERYWHERE... ANY TIME a kid can get a little extra cash they're gonna do it.

So my issue is that, again, we try to do the "right thing", and from all appearances (and even from the NCAA's mouths), indeed HAVE done all the right things, yet we are penalized for a nonissue with more probation. And this is the rub.

While we are all relieved that some axe-grinders at the NCZA couldn't make enough of a case to give us more penalties, I am VERY concerned about the probationary thing. I think this just gives any of those people (and they do exist, whether we want to believe it or not) who have a vendetta that much more of a charge to find stuff, no matter how minor, in order to try and bring the program down, or at least make Saban leave due to some stupid crap...

I really hope that the University blasts out on an appeal and gets the probation reversed or at least lessened. Couldn't care less about the vacated wins...they mean nothing. The probation and the whole "repeat offender" status is the central problem, and should NOT have been used in this case for such trivial and minor transgressions.

AND, how can you be told you have "failure to monitor", when your monitoring actually finds a problem? I don't understand that one...

I'm sick of this crap too, but I really am beginning to believe that there is some sort of behind the scenes crap going on between people in the NCAA and other programs. Sometimes, being paranoid is reality...

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

There's something about this whole affair that keeps nagging me. It just doesn't seem right...

These infractions were so minor, and I know for an absolute fact that they occur EVERYWHERE...EVERYWHERE... ANY TIME a kid can get a little extra cash they're gonna do it.

So my issue is that, again, we try to do the "right thing", and from all appearances (and even from the NCAA's mouths), indeed HAVE done all the right things, yet we are penalized for a nonissue with more probation. And this is the rub.

While we are all relieved that some axe-grinders at the NCZA couldn't make enough of a case to give us more penalties, I am VERY concerned about the probationary thing. I think this just gives any of those people (and they do exist, whether we want to believe it or not) who have a vendetta that much more of a charge to find stuff, no matter how minor, in order to try and bring the program down, or at least make Saban leave due to some stupid crap...

I really hope that the University blasts out on an appeal and gets the probation reversed or at least lessened. Couldn't care less about the vacated wins...they mean nothing. The probation and the whole "repeat offender" status is the central problem, and should NOT have been used in this case for such trivial and minor transgressions.

AND, how can you be told you have "failure to monitor", when your monitoring actually finds a problem? I don't understand that one...

I'm sick of this crap too, but I really am beginning to believe that there is some sort of behind the scenes crap going on between people in the NCAA and other programs. Sometimes, being paranoid is reality...

I understand the feeling. But I disagree with it.

In the real world, probation works like this. The more serious the offense, the lower the bar falls before the whip can come down again. Major crimes -- and that's what we were found guilty of in the Means and Langham cases -- got us thrown into the system. We now have a record.

In the real world, people with records can go back behind bars for next to nothing. Not all of them do. But it becomes the court system's call. Some people continue breaking the law and nothing seems to happen. Others go back to jail for sleeping through a meeting with their probation officer.

It's not fair. It's arbitrary. And it happens everyday.

Why do we think our relationship with the NCAA should be any different? We committed major crimes. We admitted doing it. We're a repeat offender.

Frankly, I'm in the camp that believes 200 athletes in 16 sports gaming the book store and athletic department is no small matter, not when paid employees of the university were supposed to be checking off on their purchases.

The greater context is that this is our fourth major violation in a decade and half. It's not an isolated case. Why should the NCAA look at it that way?

It's just my opinion, of course, but I think we're lucky we got off as easy as we did.

 

[Ldlane]

As far as I'm concerned it is not the admin's job to "self-report", it is the job of the admin to PREVENT it from happening. If we have to create "oversight" of our "oversight" then do it! The argument that "kids will be kids" is a professional adult's way of shirking responsibility and accountability for his/her job. How many degrees does it take to come up with a plan to prevent this from happening?

 

[Maudiemae]

I cannot say that I know the details of this situation, but I do know that kids on scholarships violate the textbook rules all over the place and very frequently. I believe that if the NCAA were serious about keeping their athletes honest on that particular standard, they would have found many, many other colleges in violation, as well.

 

[crimsonbleeder]

I cannot say that I know the details of this situation, but I do know that kids on scholarships violate the textbook rules all over the place and very frequently. I believe that if the NCAA were serious about keeping their athletes honest on that particular standard, they would have found many, many other colleges in violation, as well.

Yes, this is the point. I have several friends on scholarship, both athletic and academic (I was too, I know) and we ALL do/did this sort of thing. My issue is again, why Alabama is being singled out amongst all of the others. Let the NCAA get caught up investigating EVERY school...if they were fair they'd hand out penalties to EVERYONE.

Again, I'm tired of the (to borrow from another poster) "drive-by media" calling this another case of Alabama "cheating" when it clearly is not...

 

[Bamaro]

Yes, this is the point. I have several friends on scholarship, both athletic and academic (I was too, I know) and we ALL do/did this sort of thing. My issue is again, why Alabama is being singled out amongst all of the others. Let the NCAA get caught up investigating EVERY school...if they were fair they'd hand out penalties to EVERYONE.

Again, I'm tired of the (to borrow from another poster) "drive-by media" calling this another case of Alabama "cheating" when it clearly is not...

Didn't we self report it? Once that happened we were made an example.

 

[crimsonbleeder]

Didn't we self report it? Once that happened we were made an example.

Yep, NCZA sending mixed messages, yet again.

BTW, did anyone see that pompous Fat Bastard NCAA Infractions rep on Television last night with his attitude? I just wanted to punch him in his nose, but it was too high up in the air to reach...

 

[BAMARICH]

Yes, this is the point. I have several friends on scholarship, both athletic and academic (I was too, I know) and we ALL do/did this sort of thing. My issue is again, why Alabama is being singled out amongst all of the others. Let the NCAA get caught up investigating EVERY school...if they were fair they'd hand out penalties to EVERYONE.

Again, I'm tired of the (to borrow from another poster) "drive-by media" calling this another case of Alabama "cheating" when it clearly is not...

It was self-reported... that's the difference between us and other schools. And you can bet that other schools have shredded/doctored documents and exerted great effort in cleaning up their processes in the matter.

Here's the bottom line that Jess states fairly well. It doesn't matter who else does it or how widespread it is among non-athletes. It's a practice that's wrong and it needs attention. Just as we have probably become an example of what happens when you turn yourself in for said offense, now we need to start becoming an example of how you fix the problem across the board. And if we don't have the competence to do it, then we will run into deeper, more significant problems in the future that will endanger the university.

 

[Ldlane]

It was self-reported... that's the difference between us and other schools. And you can bet that other schools have shredded/doctored documents and exerted great effort in cleaning up their processes in the matter.

Here's the bottom line that Jess states fairly well. It doesn't matter who else does it or how widespread it is among non-athletes. It's a practice that's wrong and it needs attention. Just as we have probably become an example of what happens when you turn yourself in for said offense, now we need to start becoming an example of how you fix the problem across the board. And if we don't have the competence to do it, then we will run into deeper, more significant problems in the future that will endanger the university.

Exactly!

 

[BamaNation]

On the surface I entirely agree with your sentiments.

However, the problem is "who" the NCAA is. It is comprised of a million committees made up of pointy headed academics who - like politicians - have agendas unrelated to the realities of the battlefield upon which 'the war' is waged. Believe me, I see this EVERY day.

As Jess said, this has to stop. Firings need to take place and messages need to be sent directly to the athletes that we don't tolerate this crap anymore. Frankly, as I stated yesterday, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see the athletes with the $2K-$4K bills be kicked out of school and prosecuted. However, on the NCAA-level, this shouldn't even be a blip...but b/c we were already on the NCAAs bad list, we're headed directly for the giant torpedo if it doesn't stop.

There's something about this whole affair that keeps nagging me. It just doesn't seem right...

These infractions were so minor, and I know for an absolute fact that they occur EVERYWHERE...EVERYWHERE... ANY TIME a kid can get a little extra cash they're gonna do it.

So my issue is that, again, we try to do the "right thing", and from all appearances (and even from the NCAA's mouths), indeed HAVE done all the right things, yet we are penalized for a nonissue with more probation. And this is the rub.

While we are all relieved that some axe-grinders at the NCZA couldn't make enough of a case to give us more penalties, I am VERY concerned about the probationary thing. I think this just gives any of those people (and they do exist, whether we want to believe it or not) who have a vendetta that much more of a charge to find stuff, no matter how minor, in order to try and bring the program down, or at least make Saban leave due to some stupid crap...

I really hope that the University blasts out on an appeal and gets the probation reversed or at least lessened. Couldn't care less about the vacated wins...they mean nothing. The probation and the whole "repeat offender" status is the central problem, and should NOT have been used in this case for such trivial and minor transgressions.

AND, how can you be told you have "failure to monitor", when your monitoring actually finds a problem? I don't understand that one...

I'm sick of this crap too, but I really am beginning to believe that there is some sort of behind the scenes crap going on between people in the NCAA and other programs. Sometimes, being paranoid is reality...

 

[Ldlane]

On the surface I entirely agree with your sentiments.

However, the problem is "who" the NCAA is. It is comprised of a million committees made up of pointy headed academics who - like politicians - have agendas unrelated to the realities of the battlefield upon which 'the war' is waged. Believe me, I see this EVERY day.

As Jess said, this has to stop. Firings need to take place and messages need to be sent directly to the athletes that we don't tolerate this crap anymore. Frankly, as I stated yesterday, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see the athletes with the $2K-$4K bills be kicked out of school and prosecuted.

To me "monitoring" means that you prevent the problem from happening and being directly on top of the situation to make corrections. "Self Reporting" after the 201st student has done this is not "monitoring". People in Admin positions are "responsible" for the event happening, "being in the know" and troubleshooting. Basically, in education you are accountable for the students and their behavior whether we choose to think so or not!