Thoughts on QB situation after Game 5?

[Im_on_dsp]

I think there are two things JM can do right now to dramatically improve his play:

1. Step up into the pocket. Embrace the fact there are going to be bodies flying by but put some trust in the line that they are going to funnel the rushers to the left and right and there will be a sweet spot you can step into that will allow you to throw the ball.
2. Stop trying to beat everyone to the edge when you do decide to bail. You can't outrun everyone like you used to be able to do in high school. Turn it upfield as quickly as you can. North and south always beats side to side.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

It’s not about having a Tua per se. It’s about having someone who is clearly a better option and who isn’t going to lose the game.

I guess I just don't see how anyone is convinced of that. Up until a few games ago Ty was the 3rd QB. He hasn't really look like a world beater in any of the very limited action we've seen. There have been no reports from insiders or even fan insiders that he's been blowing people away in practice or anything of the sort.

It's possible Ty is the better choice but I just don't see the clear evidence of it that some seem to think there is. Tua was different.

 

[CB4]

There are really 3 camps on Milroe…

The two biggest are:

1) “Every play that he does well it’s a sign of tremendous improvement” crowd

2) “Every play he does bad is a sign we are heading off the cliff”

the last group is the “wait and see” group who understands that while there is improvement… it may not be enough but there is hope.

Long story short… he has made improvements and he is the guy now. But… there is still a lot of improvement needed if we are to get to our postseason goals. I think we will have a better version of him by November but the question is whether or not that includes costly mistakes that lead to losses to get there. I’m cautiously optimistic.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I’m in the last “cautiously optimistic” group. JM is playing better but he has a long way to go.

And just because you can divorce yourself enough from your “fandom” to objectively analyze the performance of a player or position group doesn’t mean you have an “agenda”. JM has “some warts” when it comes to playing the position, just a couple of players on that Oline have “warts” as well. What matters is being “fair” in that criticism.

And your very last paragraph is where I see most fans in terms of JM. There could be games where “making a play” or “not making a mistake” maybe the difference in winning or losing. But this is a simple reality at this point.

I don’t think there many here that objectively see the deficiencies on this team (not just at QB) are hoping for a failure just to be able to say “see I told you so”.

And if they are, they probably shouldn’t be on TideFans.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

It’s not about having a Tua per se. It’s about having someone who is clearly a better option and who isn’t going to lose the game.

His classroom analogy was spot on.

He admitted that no one on this team is ready for 12th Grade Reading level

But that Ty Simpson was at least 10th grade and we could work with that.

Jalen was 4th grade (his words)

Tua would probably be Post Graduate in College in this analogy (my words)

But the point is there is a reasonably good starting point with Ty.

 

[colbysullivan]

I guess I just don't see how anyone is convinced of that. Up until a few games ago Ty was the 3rd QB. He hasn't really look like a world beater in any of the very limited action we've seen. There have been no reports from insiders or even fan insiders that he's been blowing people away in practice or anything of the sort.

It's possible Ty is the better choice but I just don't see the clear evidence of it that some seem to think there is. Tua was different.

Look, I’m not trying to convince you. All I’m saying is there a certain “eye test” and “It factor” that QBs need. Milroe doesn’t have it, because he’s not a real QB. Ty is a real QB. He just needs reps.

 

[colbysullivan]

His classroom analogy was spot on.

He admitted that no one on this team is ready for 12th Grade Reading level

But that Ty Simpson was at least 10th grade and we could work with that.

Jalen was 4th grade (his words)

Tua would probably be Post Graduate in College in this analogy (my words)

But the point is there is a reasonably good starting point with Ty.

Yeah that’s the thing other people simply don’t understand. Milroe’s ceiling might be through the roof, but his floor is way too low. Ty’s ceiling is likely lower than Milroe’s, but the floor is much higher. We can’t win with a roller coaster QB. We need consistency.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Look, I’m not trying to convince you. All I’m saying is there a certain “eye test” and “It factor” that QBs need. Milroe doesn’t have it, because he’s not a real QB. Ty is a real QB. He just needs reps.

I agree with eye test and it factor. I agree Milroe doesn't seem to have it right now. I don't agree he's not a QB I think that statement at this point is absurd.

I just don't see anything from Ty that shows he passes those tests clearly either. And again, there have been basically zero reports to date that claim he has shown that in practice.

I get the urge to want more from the QB position. I want it too. I just don't understand why people are so convinced anyone on our roster today can provide that more. The only QB who insider types have said might have that it factor is a true freshman who seems to have very little shot of playing.

Maybe everyone is wrong and Ty is great. But I just don't know how anyone can be confident in that.

 

[Tide&True]

I wonder if Milroe is able to rollout effectively for run/pass option. If so it could add a new wrinkle on offense.

 

[UAH]

Yeah that’s the thing other people simply don’t understand. Milroe’s ceiling might be through the roof, but his floor is way too low. Ty’s ceiling is likely lower than Milroe’s, but the floor is much higher. We can’t win with a roller coaster QB. We need consistency.

Milroe's ceiling like Jalen Hurts may be a number of years out entailing hundreds of hours of development.

 

[KrAzY3]

Ty is a real QB. He just needs reps.

That is extremely speculative and it isn't like Ty just got on campus.

He's been here a few years and not once, under any circumstances have I seen him play at a level that clearly showed he had what it takes.

I'd love for him to, I would, but I can rattle a long list of talented but ultimately limited quarterbacks that did as well or better than he did in their limited play time. In some cases people insisted they should play over other QBs.

For example, Philip Ely. He was a four star according to one service, quite a few people here insisted adamantly he play second string instead of Blake Sims, then insisted he was going to take over and Blake was just a place holder.

It never happened, this thing people kept claiming (plenty of people still here that took that position) never happened. Blake ended up being a better college QB, although Ely did have one solid year in Toledo.

This is actually one of the better success stories I can think of for people that found themselves mired in such a situation though. Philip Sims, Blake Barnett, Cooper Bateman, if a QB went for the starting job and lost usually it didn't end well, and often there were quite a few people still singing their praises.

Look, we saw Philip Sims play and he wasn't that dude , we saw Blake Barnett play and he wasn't that dude , we saw Cooper Bateman play and he wasn't that dude and well... we saw Ty play as well.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I agree with eye test and it factor. I agree Milroe doesn't seem to have it right now. I don't agree he's not a QB I think that statement at this point is absurd.

I just don't see anything from Ty that shows he passes those tests clearly either. And again, there have been basically zero reports to date that claim he has shown that in practice.

I get the urge to want more from the QB position. I want it too. I just don't understand why people are so convinced anyone on our roster today can provide that more. The only QB who insider types have said might have that it factor is a true freshman who seems to have very little shot of playing.

Maybe everyone is wrong and Ty is great. But I just don't know how anyone can be confident in that.

Ty has made 3 passes this year that pass the eye test for me as far as him having IT.

He’s thrown a Slant (near the Goal line), Bang-8 Skinny Post (mid-field), and TE Seam (mid-field)

All 3 were in perfect rhythm, with perfect touch and accuracy

Step-Step-Step BANG right on target.

The Kid can SLING it.

I’m not saying he’s can’t miss because he hasn’t been given enough of a chance yet to even really play.

But he shows great potential to be a really good QB.

Imo his Floor is possibly Coker level but his Ceiling might be AJ level or better.

We can win a NC with either of those.

I don’t think we can win anything with 2017 QB play (minus 2nd half NCG)

 

[Cruloc]

I agree with eye test and it factor. I agree Milroe doesn't seem to have it right now. I don't agree he's not a QB I think that statement at this point is absurd.

I just don't see anything from Ty that shows he passes those tests clearly either. And again, there have been basically zero reports to date that claim he has shown that in practice.

I get the urge to want more from the QB position. I want it too. I just don't understand why people are so convinced anyone on our roster today can provide that more. The only QB who insider types have said might have that it factor is a true freshman who seems to have very little shot of playing.

Maybe everyone is wrong and Ty is great. But I just don't know how anyone can be confident in that.

You remember that throw Ty made in the USF game? Milroe doesn't make that throw.

Milroe is....excuse the baseball analogy.....a HR or a K.

Simpson likely would be more small ball, singles, moving runners, walks etc.

If Simpson had been playing up to this point.....yeah, we may still lose the TX game, but I fully believe we'd see a more consistent offense by now.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

You remember that throw Ty made in the USF game? Milroe doesn't make that throw.

Milroe is....excuse the baseball analogy.....a HR or a K.

Simpson likely would be more small ball, singles, moving runners, walks etc.

If Simpson had been playing up to this point.....yeah, we may still lose the TX game, but I fully believe we'd see a more consistent offense by now.

You’re probably talking about that TE Seam.

It was really impressive.

Perfect touch right over the defender into a bucket (TE)

That was a Tua/Mac level throw.

I’m straight flummoxed people won’t acknowledge some of the throws he’s made.

They keep harping on the Sacks where he had 1.0-1.2 seconds before he was buried. (because the OL was tanking btw)

But whatever… it’s going to come to a head eventually just like it did in 2017 around Miss St-AU that year….

But imo it will be sooner if not this week.

 

[Cruloc]

You’re probably talking about that TE Seam.

It was really impressive.

Perfect touch right over the defender into a bucket (WR)

That was a Tua/Mac level throw.

I’m straight flummoxed people won’t acknowledge some of the throws he’s made.

They keep harping on the Sacks where he had 1.0-1.2 seconds before he was buried. (because the OL was tanking btw)

But whatever… it’s going to come to a head eventually just like it did in 2017 around Miss St-AU that year….

But imo it will be sooner if not this week.

Yep, the TE Seam to Dippre. That's touch that Milroe doesn't have. Milroe's footwork is atrocious, he'll never make those throws with those mechanics, not consistently anyway. He may flick one that looks good here and there, but he looks like he's throwing off his back foot all the time, even with time to throw.

TAM has the defensive talent to make Milroe very, very uncomfortable. They will make him read and we know good and well what happens when a good defense makes Milroe read the D. The moment Milroe reads a blitz and throws to a hot route, I'll come on here and admit he's grown some. Or if he hits a slant cleanly.

A&M will be a nightmare for Milroe simply because he can't read what's coming and adjust. That's not changing in another week.

 

[Joefus]

I don’t have a fav qb I just want to win but the Jalen hurts analogy is way off. For a zillion reason most of which are all over the thread but also bc hurts was given so many chances bc he took us to a championship game and almost won it with a late td run. Milroe is a rs sophomore and first year starter Saban feels no hurts like loyalty too. As evidenced by giving the Ty’s a chance vs usf bc he promised he would. For whatever reason Simpson has some kind of bad knock against him within the team and/or coaching staff we aren’t privy too. But he ain’t tua and he ain’t even Coker. If it were me I’d probably said no thanks to Buchner and given Simpson a go till he bucked me but we aren’t in the know and don’t know what’s going on.

 

[gman4tide]

I wonder if Milroe is able to rollout effectively for run/pass option. If so it could add a new wrinkle on offense.

Dat would take an innovative OC. But i digress...

 

[gman4tide]

That is extremely speculative and it isn't like Ty just got on campus.

He's been here a few years and not once, under any circumstances have I seen him play at a level that clearly showed he had what it takes.

I'd love for him to, I would, but I can rattle a long list of talented but ultimately limited quarterbacks that did as well or better than he did in their limited play time. In some cases people insisted they should play over other QBs.

He's been here 19 months. JM has been here years. He made most every throw asked in the ucf game...most of which came with him only getting 2-3 seconds in the pocket. Have you seen JM drop a pass like he did to dippre against usf?
Please don't take me wrong. I want JM to do well. Would love to see him light it up and win the heisman. However, for whatever reason, I just don't think simpson has gotten a fair shake. Was it something he did that turned the team off? Does he just not practice good? Was it the new OC bringing his boy in? I don't know. I do know i saw the kid make some throws in garbage time last year. One game where jm got a series too and bounced an unhurried throw on 3rd down to a wide open receiver in the flat (because he seemed like he didn't wanna be there). I saw him gut out being pummeled by usf and lead the Tide to their only 2 td's.
Please, rattle off that long list.

 

[CoolBreeze]

Shew...after reading 7 pages of this thread I can't say I have learned anything except that we have a mess at the QB position. We have seen them all and, well, ain't nobody in a backup role that deserves to be the starter. Best upside is Lonergan but other than that we need to stick with Milroe. Just a real mess man.

 

[BamaMoon]

Just gonna leave this here…

Now I know where "chips" comes from, but man that guy shot red hot flame on the subject.

And no, he's not saying Simpson is Tua.

Actually, he's arguing CNS's own point, "We are going to run the Bama offense." Except, CNS isn't doing that with JM and this video points out Simpson is the one who can do that if he was given a decent opportunity.

And, I must say I appreciate his "color candor." It's actually refreshing.

 

[BamaMoon]

Milroe's ceiling like Jalen Hurts may be a number of years out entailing hundreds of hours of development.

Right. Take a year off and fix it, which is essentially what JH did sitting behind Tua.

JM might could follow the Anthony Richardson route. Remember how bad he was last year, but he still is a top draft choice. NFL execs love "potential" almost as much as NBA ones do!

Guy in the video makes reference to going to the pros and learning to be a QB and if he can get drafted he might could eventually get there but one thing we found out with Jalen Hurts, Bama is not the place to try to develop from a running QB to a passing one. And yet, amazingly, we are doing it again!!!